On the Subject of Dumb Workers...and the UNDEAD!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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As for fresh corpses, you could just go raid someone else's undead dungeon and assume control of the bodies for your own use. If you go the 'animated objects' route, hire yourself out to a local church or something to put down the local skeleton/zombie horde, then harvest the bones/bodies and bring them back to your lab to turn them into constructs.

Sure, you could do it for free, but you might as well get paid to do so, right?


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Tels wrote:

As for fresh corpses, you could just go raid someone else's undead dungeon and assume control of the bodies for your own use. If you go the 'animated objects' route, hire yourself out to a local church or something to put down the local skeleton/zombie horde, then harvest the bones/bodies and bring them back to your lab to turn them into constructs.

Sure, you could do it for free, but you might as well get paid to do so, right?

Making constructs out of corpses is a time honored tradition, and often confuses the hell out of your enemies (and/or players). :P


But... what if your enemies are devils?


Vlaeros wrote:
But... what if your enemies are devils?

Then you confuse them out of hell. :P


Ashiel wrote:
Vlaeros wrote:
But... what if your enemies are devils?
Then you confuse them out of hell. :P

Ooooh. OooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooooh. Oh. I get it now. Heh. Heheh.

Hahahah!

...

...

... no, wait, I still don't get it.


Vlaeros wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Vlaeros wrote:
But... what if your enemies are devils?
Then you confuse them out of hell. :P

Ooooh. OooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooooh. Oh. I get it now. Heh. Heheh.

Hahahah!

...

...

... no, wait, I still don't get it.

The devil gets so confused he puts on a halo and starts healing people.


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Anyone who is a parent has run into this. "Hey could you get me that screwdriver?"

pause, pause, pause ... no the other one ... pause pause pause

"turn around, walk to that table, not the blue table the brown table, now look down, see the screwdriver with the flat head, yes, pick it up, turn around, walk back to me, hand it to me ... thank you.

That is how I see undead. They only follow commands and they only do it to the letter. They don't read anything into anything. Plus, they have no skill so they won't do a good job at anything.

Again, it is like a child but worse. I can tell my 6 year old to saw a board in half. It won't be a straight cut, it probably won't be measured correctly, she might accidentally saw her hand off while doing it.

For me undead could move a heavy object like a stone block but not place it accurately. The could dig a ditch but it likely won't be straight or even. They could chop down trees but would need someone to tell them which trees to cut down (because they are tall and straight). So undead could save a lot of labor but any finish or detail work would still require a living worker.


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Considering zombies have a +0 on Int based checks (the same a 10 or 11 in Int gives you) I would say they are a might more capable or aware than that of a 6 year old. Especially considering, per Paizo's Young Character rules, children take a penalty to wisdom, while undead typically don't.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A modifier of +0 is a thing, - intelligence another.
If you give a task to a guy with an average intelligence he can try to do it even if he don't know how to do it.
If you give an order to a computer and it don't have the right program it do nothing.
A creature with - intelligence is more akin to the computer than the person with average intelligence, it has the program to do some things, but it is incapable to try to do any other thing unless it is directed. The commands you give it are its program, but those commands are only a few word long.


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However, the skeleton or zombie will try to do it even if he doesn't know how, a computer will not.

With a computer, if you give it an inappropriate command, you are informed the command doesn't work and it stops there. With a man, if you give it an inappropriate command, it will try, even if he doesn't know how. With a skeleton, if you give it an inappropriate command, it will proceed with the command to the best of it's ability, even if it isn't possible.

You tell a computer to fly across a gorge, it will say it isn't possible. If you order a man to do so, he might try to build something, or cast a spell, or simply tell you 'No'. If you tell a skeleton, it will walk off the cliff, maybe flapping it's arms if your GM is comical.

Having '-' intelligence is not like a computer. A computer is a machine, it either does, or does not; like Yoda. A man will try, and he will do, or do not. A Skeleton simply does.


Castle Deathtrap is so yoinked. Built by mindless undead, it is a great pile of badly fitted stones, pillars that sway in the wind due to bad balances and load distributions, skeleton hands sawed off here and there, skeletons digging chasmlike holes after not being ordered to stop, a giant pile of dirt just outside the castle wall, a moat with entrances to an unintended basement... And a necromancer dead in his workroom under a pile of roof.


The intelligence score isn't the only thing determining how well you know and understand something.

Otherwise, a 3-year old would be equally skilled as a 30-year old, since neither has an intelligence penalty.


There used to be a rule in 3.X that a nonability prevented you from making skill checks tied to that ability. The "counts as +0" was merely for the situations where a check was still necessary. I assume that has been changed?


There was an AD&D supplement on castles. For the life of me I can't remember its title, but it basically went with: Yes you can use undead labor, but they require so much supervision that there is no real advantage over just using peasants.

I think it would be best to use undead like draft animals. The skeleton crew (pun intended) can't shape the blocks for your pyramid of Necro-potence. But by Orcus can they haul them!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sissyl wrote:
There used to be a rule in 3.X that a nonability prevented you from making skill checks tied to that ability. The "counts as +0" was merely for the situations where a check was still necessary. I assume that has been changed?

Several skills can be used untrained. The craft skills are on that list.

From that we can take two approach:
- the skeletons make a craft skill check. They roll anything from 1 to 20. The castle is a disaster as each time they fall by 5 or more they ruin half of the material they use. In some instance th3 "material they use" is the work done earlier, so they can even damage what was already done.
- the skeletons take 10 (you give them clear, simple orders and directions). They do some simple work (the definition of simple work in the craft rules is very large as it include "Typical item (iron pot) DC 10". I am not stupid but I doubt I will be capable to make a iron pot if given a forge, tools and a iron ingot.)
The DC to make a wall is not defined but it should be around 10 for a interior wall if you are willing to accept that it will not be straight, way higher for a load bearing wall.


Sissyl wrote:
There used to be a rule in 3.X that a nonability prevented you from making skill checks tied to that ability. The "counts as +0" was merely for the situations where a check was still necessary. I assume that has been changed?

I don't ever recall that being a rule. Can you provide a link?

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