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You would need to specify something first. Do you mean those that are in the city at the moment, those who are here for a bit, or those that live in the city itself instead of just working there?
There would be quite a few 20th level people that come in and out of the Pathfinder Lodge and those that work with various elements in the city, but I would think that the call of home would have most higher level characters go to thier homelands to live, if only to come back when they are needed. Absalom has a very active rotation of dignetaries, sailors, and travelers as well as those that live their lives in the city.
I would think the number, whatever it is, would be constantly in flux as people go in and out of the city, work and leave, come and visit and so on.
Number of 20th level NPC in Absolam? Probably 0, as they're probably doing more important things than hanging out in the city.
Beyond that, the general assumption is that NPCs, with very rare exceptions, don't grow beyond level 13/14.
There would be quite a few 20th level people that come in and out of the Pathfinder Lodge and those that work with various elements in the city, but I would think that the call of home would have most higher level characters go to thier homelands to live, if only to come back when they are needed. Absalom has a very active rotation of dignetaries, sailors, and travelers as well as those that live their lives in the city
Why would there be quite a few 20th level persons coming in and out of the Pathfinder Lodge? What is the source for this?
I would think that any high level people would either be running the place or transient.
In a town of 3300? I bet there are zero.
I was thinking at least 6-10. With the star stone being seen as a threat imo to clerics at least a high level cleric trying to convince people not to try this foolish test.
I meant permanent city npc's I see what u mean about the pathfinder society
As far as none I'm not sure (not saying I disagree) but as city that size you would think would be like New York, Tokyo, Los angles if we equate level to power and influence.Is there a guide rule for hamlets small city's? Thx for the input it helps clairify especially the pathfinder society.
Not really the same.
New York Metro - 19.6 million
Tokyo Metro - 35.6 million
Los Angelos Metro - 18 million
Were talking at least 50 times difference in size. The difference in size of modern cities versus even the largest of Golairon cities is staggering.
And it's not that no one on Golarion is level 20, there are assuredly a few. But they're not in the city, they're likely doing much better and important things. You don't get to level 20 by sitting around doing nothing. Think about it, do your 20th level adventurer characters hang around Absalom? Why should NPCs?
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There's no official answer to this, though the settlement rules imply some things.
Going by my own Level Demographics there would be around 15 people in Absalom who are 15th level or higher. Maybe a third of those would be 17th level or higher, so call that 5 or so, maybe less. And, again, most of those would be 'merely' 17th-18th level. So probably only one person of 20th level, if that,...but unlike most cities, Absalom is actually decently likely to have that one guy,
That's what my calculations indicate, anyway. And they match up pretty well with established NPC numbers in published settings, actually.
From what I understand the vast majority of people are under 6th level. 6th to 12th level characters are supposed to be the movers and shakers of the kingdom. Characters higher than 12th level are supposed to be characters of worldwide power and extremely rare.
The way I figure it characters above 12th level are like the extremely wealthy in real life. I figure this means that about 1% of the population is above 6th level. Figure that a similar 1% of this number are above 12th level. I figure that there are probably at least 4 times as many characters than the level below it. This works out to about 1 or 2 characters of 15th level, 6 characters of 14th level, and about 24 of 13th level. There is about a 40% chance of a character of 16th level and a diminishing chance of higher level characters. So the chance of a 20th level character would be about .15%
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Note: Those figures are actually in the same ballpark as the level demographics I cite. For the record.
The primary difference is that I assume that high level people generally congregate in large cities and double the number found in such places (while their numbers would be almost nonexistent in smaller settlements).
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Keeping the above points in mind, I do think that at least two or three of the Ten are 20th level.
Really? Why?
I mean, we don't have explicit listings for them, and, from the perspective of people speaking of their power 17th-18th level is pretty nearly impossible to tell from 20th.
I'm positive there are scary people in that august body, but two or three being 20th seems excessive given the rarity of 20th level characters in general.
There's no official answer to this, though the settlement rules imply some things.
Going by my own Level Demographics there would be around 15 people in Absalom who are 15th level or higher. Maybe a third of those would be 17th level or higher, so call that 5 or so, maybe less. And, again, most of those would be 'merely' 17th-18th level. So probably only one person of 20th level, if that,...but unlike most cities, Absalom is actually decently likely to have that one guy,
That's what my calculations indicate, anyway. And they match up pretty well with established NPC numbers in published settings, actually.
I think your demographic breakdown is reasonable, and agree with your conclusion that in a city of 330,000 there are probably about 15 people of level 15 or higher. But we don't have better statistics to really indicate what the breakdown is beyond that.
I contend, at most you might have 1 level 20 character among the city's population. With a near 0 chance that they actually stay in the city. Mostly because going back to my earlier statement, do your 20th characters just sit around in the city? They're adventures who have spent their lives facing the most perilous challenges Golarion presents. They've likely traveled the multiverse and experienced more in their lifetime than 99% of the world can imagine. And yet, this person is supposed to be sitting around waiting for other adventurers to come and bug them in a city? And provide them services?
Really? I don't buy it. That person probably has made a lot of enemies over the course of their career, enemies that want them dead. And so they're still traveling, or hiding, or whatever. I just don't buy that they're hanging out in the city.
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There are chances of a lvl 20 wizard being the headmaster of the main wizard school or a lvl 20 cleric being involved with a large enough "church" of his/her faith.
Especially for casters who are lvl 20 and now see crafting stuff and adding bonuses to weapons as their retirement job, why not Absolam where there would be greater demand for higher lvl spell stuff.
The head of the Arcanamirium is 14th level.
The head of the College of Mysteries is 18th level.
Some of the Spell Lords aren't stat'ed out.
The high priests that have been given levels (only a few have) are around 10th level.
I like the demo breakdown, but if there is a 20th level character in Absalom they haven't been described yet (which seems strange).
On the other hand, assuming there is a level 20, I can see him residing in the city and staying there most of the time. Most of the 20th level characters currently given are fairly sedentary due to having responsibilities ruling kingdoms and such.
Which is another reason it seems unlikely Absalom has a level 20, we know many of the people in charge and they aren't 20th level. You would think a level 20 NPC would be involved at a high level in the city.
In my game I currently have 41 20th+ level characters in and around Absalom. Now for sure many of them are only there part time,much as the pc's are only there part time.
I would say the city is the center of high level play in my game.Almost all of those people traveled to the city instead of being born there.
The high level people in the city represent the high level people from all over the world that for one reason or another choose not to settle down and forge a kingdom,not to create a Wizard School but instead are professional adventurers.
People who stay in the game because they love the life,for one reason or another.
Some seek godhood,others just more and more power,some just always wonder whats over the next hill and some just love to kill creatures and take there stuff while being cheered for it.
In my game anyway the normal rules for what you would be able to find in the location are overruled by the simple fact so many adventurers can be found there. Counting my pc's alone this figure is WAY out there and they are by no means the majority of adventurers in and around the city.
Hmmm... I think it depends on the nature of the city and region.
I mean, a major center of trade like Absalom? It has a lot of traffic, and holds the interests of a lot of powerful people (who are either strong martially themselves, or they can at least hire such people as their right hand men). While I generally agree with Deadmanwalking's statistics, I think that a county's population of high level PC class characters are likely to concentrate in certain areas, rather than being evenly distributed across every hamlet and berg.
Also, we of course have to account for institutional influences. Schools of magic for wizards, temples for clerics, fortresses for soldiers...
And, since there is at least some correlation between armed conflicts and levels (story/gameplay segregation since most NPCs seem to level through sheer training, but I would think that there would at least be some effect), then the amount of fights also affect the concentrations. I mean, around world wound for example, I'd imagine the people that have stuck around for a while would generally be of a higher average level than normal. This is because the weak/unlucky get slaughtered by demons, and those that are left have gained the experience against a tremendous force.
Similar effects could occur if a city is the base of a certain world spanning exploratory organization.....where the people in power are those that could get results when investigating ruins and such filled with viscous beasts...
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My overall feeling is that Absalom is a stepping stone, a point between everywhere else. Most who are that high level are most likely retired or doing something other than "adventure." I think my previous thought is still valid, that most of that high level are going "home" to the countries instead of staying on the lil' island with Giligan.
Keeping the above points in mind, I do think that at least two or three of the Ten are 20th level.
When we have seen members of the Ten statted up in canon, they have always been significantly less than 20th level.
I just don't buy that they're hanging out in the city.
On the other hand, 20th-level characters are likely to have access to teleportation magic, meaning that they can be wherever in the world they want to be.
-Matt
A lot of people seem to forget (strangely enough) that NPC classes should be more common among NPCs than character classes. Thus there probably are a handful of 15th plus level NPCs in a metropolis but they might very well be experts or sages or warriors or commoners. The greatest smith in the world expert 20 is more likely than fighter 20 or wiz 20.
In short: there should be 0 level 20 characters that they PCs can just walk up to and be like, "Yo bro, sup!"
This is because these high level characters don't want to be known about or they are the center of multinational organizations such as the Pathfinders even if PFS's ranking members are all around level 12.
These high level characters, the level 20s, are most likely retired or living on the planes. I would expect to have to go to one of the outer planes to find one of these people, or at least the top of a mountain. We're talking about one man army fighters who take on an entire platoon of orcs and win because they have to crit to hit. We're talking about Wizards who annihilate said platoon of orcs before they even have a chance to retaliate.
In short: level 20 characters are legends. The heroes of Last Wall in the war against the Lich King who almost took on Avistian. The Last Azlanti who's cohort took on the starstone challenge and became a god. These legendary characters are the ones who were level 20. They are far and few between, and when they appear they change the world.
At the very least someone might know where one was last seen, and hence the quest to find said individual who is typically living in one of the most inhospitable places possible to deter assassins hired by the people they wronged while becoming level 20 characters.
Not every town or village has a spellcaster of sufficient level to cast any spell. In general, you must travel to a small town (or larger settlement) to be reasonably assured of finding a spellcaster capable of casting 1st-level spells, a large town for 2nd-level spells, a small city for 3rd- or 4th-level spells, a large city for 5th- or 6th-level spells, and a metropolis for 7th- or 8th-level spells. Even a metropolis isn't guaranteed to have a local spellcaster able to cast 9th-level spells.
It's not guaranteed you have access to 9th level spell casters. It's really left up to the GM to decide if you have level 17 spell casters in a city or not.
From what I understand the vast majority of people are under 6th level. 6th to 12th level characters are supposed to be the movers and shakers of the kingdom. Characters higher than 12th level are supposed to be characters of worldwide power and extremely rare.
The way I figure it characters above 12th level are like the extremely wealthy in real life. I figure this means that about 1% of the population is above 6th level. Figure that a similar 1% of this number are above 12th level. I figure that there are probably at least 4 times as many characters than the level below it. This works out to about 1 or 2 characters of 15th level, 6 characters of 14th level, and about 24 of 13th level. There is about a 40% chance of a character of 16th level and a diminishing chance of higher level characters. So the chance of a 20th level character would be about .15%
I wouldn't be so sure about it, it surely depends on the region but in the inner sea and in most of Avistan it seems that the 5th level is the benchmark for college level education/training/experience. That comes from two sources, the first is the pathfinder tales (where spellcasters that are considered competent and interacting with the people and such have access to 3rd level spells) and from the fact that A LOT of PrCs require you to be at least 5th before taking your first level in the PrC.