Ballistics in PFO?


Pathfinder Online

Goblin Squad Member

Will the ballistics of projectiles/ammunition in PFO be the same as real-world ballistics?

I really don’t know how the physics work in these games, and I plan to be play an archer-type character, so I’m asking this question. And if we don’t know how the physics in PFO will play out yet (I don’t recall anything in the blogs on this), perhaps there are analogies or insights from other similar games?

Goblin Squad Member

It appeared there was an arc to the trajectory of an arrow in one of the in-game videos that featured an archer firing at a distant goblin. If my visual memory recalls rightly it even moved faster when rising in that arc and slowed slightly as it gently descended in that arc. So, if my perception was unskewed by hope and fear, then there seemed to be an approximate realism to ballistics.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't think you'll be able to duck behind a tree after the arrow is loosed in order to avoid getting hit.

Goblin Squad Member

Yea, I saw that too Being, and was wondering if it was some sort of actual physics algorithm or just a visual effect to make it "look" real.

If there is an actual physics engine working behind the scene it would be interesting to know what it is or how accurate it is. It could have impact on the battle tactics of projectile-based units in the game.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

I don't think you'll be able to duck behind a tree after the arrow is loosed in order to avoid getting hit.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of lobbing projectiles onto enemy units from above rather than shooting directly at them (and their shields).

Goblin Squad Member

The question mark for me is that we have physics, yet cannot miss.

Goblin Squad Member

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An example would be an archer unit that could target an area of the battlefield rather than individual characters. Lay a huge volley of arrows into that area with some reduced potential to hit any characters in that zone.

Goblin Squad Member

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DAoC used a model that allowed for increased range based on your elevation relative to your target. You would commonly see archers on the battlements or positioned up on a hillside raining arrows down onto the field of battle. Would be great to see that here too.

Goblin Squad Member

ArchAnjel wrote:
DAoC used a model that allowed for increased range based on your elevation relative to your target. You would commonly see archers on the battlements or positioned up on a hillside raining arrows down onto the field of battle. Would be great to see that here too.

Agreed! I imagine the phsyics could end up being some pretty heavy computing requirements, depending upon how it was done. But even something "relatively" simple like you indicate here would be very cool, indeed.

Goblin Squad Member

You, this is Me, DROP 500 FIRE FOR EFFECT, over.

Goblin Squad Member

There will most certainly be math involved with hitting a target but it will include targeting, skill, range, AC, dodge, evasion, and other factors on both sides. I don't think it will include the kind of physics you are describing sure the arrows will have a nice appearance but if factors like wind speed are added that would be dropping the PF rule set to a degree.

It does bring up an interesting question. Will an archer on the settlement wall have to choose a single target from the hoard? Can a archery formation fire upon a opposing formation sight unseen? I thing yes to the former, but would like to be wrong allowing the latter.

Goblin Squad Member

Vwoom wrote:
It does bring up an interesting question. Will an archer on the settlement wall have to choose a single target from the hoard? Can a archery formation fire upon a opposing formation sight unseen? I thing yes to the former, but would like to be wrong allowing the latter.

How would it be wrong for a formation of archers or catapult or ballista to indirect fire on a suspected enemy position?

Goblin Squad Member

Perhaps I need to find and read that tab targeting post? My logic is that there must be a target selected. It could be that a formation leader could provide a /assist function for an area target that everybody fires on? Even better a visible ring to fire through that must be positioned by a spotter. To be clear I am thinking about a formation inside the walls that doesn't have line of site on the attackers.

Goblin Squad Member

Vwoom wrote:
Perhaps I need to find and read that tab targeting post? My logic is that there must be a target selected. It could be that a formation leader could provide a /assist function for an area target that everybody fires on? Even better a visible ring to fire through that must be positioned by a spotter. To be clear I am thinking about a formation inside the walls that doesn't have line of site on the attackers.

Sounds reasonable. Maybe an AOE/indirect mode for missiles of some type?

Goblin Squad Member

This is an important topic for discussion.

It is my very strong belief that every single member of a settlement should have some skill at arms with a ranged weapon.

Any attack on a settlements walls should first have to deal with a rain of fire that would wither the unprepared.

Goblin Squad Member

Vwoom wrote:
It could be that a formation leader could provide a /assist function for an area target that everybody fires on? Even better a visible ring to fire through that must be positioned by a spotter. To be clear I am thinking about a formation inside the walls that doesn't have line of site on the attackers.
Pax Bringslite wrote:
Maybe an AOE/indirect mode for missiles of some type?

These are the types of things I was thinking about. Indirect fire onto a spot on the map (as an AOE, perhaps)? Absolutely yes.

I also think archers should be able to place indirect fire on a spot on the map they cannot see (like over the castle walls example). To do this, I also think there would need to be some sort of limitation; a spotter who can see the area is necessary, I think. In addition, having a unit leader who has certain skills trained that help him/her organize the archers to do such things, and then skills each of the archers need to train in order to be able to do it effectively.

It could potentially create archer variants in game that players would have to choose to focus their skill sets on to be really good at it. Do you want to be more skilled in more traditional one-on-one type engagements or do you want to be more geared towards organized battle units?

I think it would really make large battles very interesting and allow archer units to use more "traditional" medieval battle tactics.

Goblin Squad Member

Implementing a "ground target" ability has been done in many, many MMOs so I can't imagine it would be that difficult. The ground target slides along the ground as you move your mouse until you have the desired area inder the target indicator. Checks can be put into place to determine whether you have line of sight and/or line of effect to establish viability of the target.

Like I said, it's been done in lots of other MMOs so I would expect to see a similar implementation here.

Goblin Squad Member

If you're targeting a group that has formed a unit, ranged combat could simply default to indirect fire. Really easy to do and appropriate for its usage.

Goblin Squad Member

Lone_Wolf wrote:


I also think archers should be able to place indirect fire on a spot on the map they cannot see (like over the castle walls example). To do this, I also think there would need to be some sort of limitation; a spotter who can see the area is necessary, I think. In addition, having a unit leader who has certain skills trained that help him/her organize the archers to do such things, and then skills each of the archers need to train in order to be able to do it effectively.

the ability to control massed fires (archers, casters) seems like a natural training skill for unit leaders.

Goblin Squad Member

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Hmmm, I may be changing my thoughts on the spotter thing. An experienced longbowman, for example, would certainly be able to drop an arrow in a box say 150 meters from his/her position, whether that spot is visible or not. A unit should be able to do the same, with the appropriately skilled unit leader.

I'm not sure how that would be accomplished in-game, though.

Goblin Squad Member

In a rare twist, I can shoot a bow better IRL than in a game with 'real' physics. :p

Goblin Squad Member

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This was the last I heard about ground targeting, in September:

We need to get further into systems development to get an accurate idea of how many options we have for AoEs with the tech and game mechanics. We're not ruling out ground targeting at this stage, but neither are we promising it.

Dark Archive

Allowing for an innacuate volley, coordinated with other archers sounds like some kind of Teamwork Feat you might train for.

Say you que up the range, location, and ready the attack until a sufficient number of archers have set up, or have some way of visually perceiving group readiness. It would be nice to have a "ready mode" whereby many people ready up and the first person to "fire" would set off the other archers, like a readied action. Just something to think about.

Goblin Squad Member

could be a future implementation of the formation combat that was talked about, ranged formations

Goblin Squad Member

Revenlute wrote:
In a rare twist, I can shoot a bow better IRL than in a game with 'real' physics. :p

Agree.

One of the other things to consider is flight time. In RL, depending upon range, it is possible to launch an arrow at a high angle of departure, and release another arrow at a lower angle of departure at a slightly later time such that both arrows arrive at the target at the same time. One arrow striking from the high angle of departure (a longer flight time) and one arrow striking from the lower angle or departure (a shorter flight time).

The result in game mechanics would be similar to executing a ranged attack in round 1 that does not inflict damage until round 2, and also executing a ranged attack in round 2 that inflicts damage in round 2. If you follow me. Basically inflicting double the amount of damage (if successful) in round 2, and no damage in round 1.

There are some situations where this would be beneficial.

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