Eidolon taking Additional Traits?

[Broken Prince]

I am fairly sure this is legal as long as you qualify for the traits as well. Is there any PFS ruling that would prevent this working? I was specifically thinking of taking Shoanti tatoo which gives a number of weapon proficiencies, notably earthbreaker. Its for a biped eidolon. It seems intuitively a little odd.

PFSRD wrote:

Eidolons can select any feat that they qualify for, but they must possess the appropriate appendages to use some feats. Eidolon feats are set once chosen, even if the creature changes when the summoner gains a new level. If, due to changes, the eidolon no longer qualifies for a feat, the feat has no effect until the eidolon once again qualifies for the feat.

PFSRD wrote:

Additional Traits

You have more traits than normal.

Benefit: You gain two character traits of your choice. These traits must be chosen from different lists, and cannot be chosen from lists from which you have already selected a character trait. You must meet any additional qualifications for the character traits you choose — this feat cannot enable you to select a dwarf character trait if you are an elf, for example.

[Luke_Parry]

As far as I am aware, RAW, there is nothing preventing an Eidolon from taking the feat 'Additional Traits'.

You can't just take the trait 'Shoanti Tattoo', though, as it is a 'Race' trait, with a prerequisite of 'Human - Shoanti'.

That said, RAW, you could take the 'Adopted' trait, which would allow you take a race trait of your choice...

...although how an Eidolon was raised by Shoanti tribesmen is anyone's guess :-/

[Broken Prince]

Good point Luke Parry, PFSRD had it listed as regional, but checking the book you are absolutely right. Still viable I think though, and a deal more fun than simply taking weapon proficiency Earthbreaker.

[Nefreet]

I'd avoid using d20pfsrd if I were you. Not only is it a 3rd party site that is not associated with Paizo, but due to copyright they have changed the names and wording of many options, or they outright have errors, as you've discovered with this.

[Nefreet]

When I need to, I've been using Archives of Nethys instead. It's still a 3rd party site, but they don't change any names, and they even have the Glyph of the Open Road included to the left of any options that are PFS legal.

[Andreas Forster]

Luke Parry wrote:

although how an Eidolon was raised by Shoanti tribesmen is anyone's guess

If the summoner is a Shoanti, the answer to this is quite simple ;)

[GM Lamplighter]

The feat is called "Additional" traits - doesn't that imply it is designed for people who already have some traits in the first place? I agree that nothing prevents it RAW (as long as you qualify for the traits you take), but this seems like a loophole rather than a good idea.

[David Neilson]

It is called as being a way to give NPCs traits, since they usually lack them.

[Under A Bleeding Sun]

GM Lamplighter wrote:

The feat is called "Additional" traits - doesn't that imply it is designed for people who already have some traits in the first place? I agree that nothing prevents it RAW (as long as you qualify for the traits you take), but this seems like a loophole rather than a good idea.

You would think so but it's not a prerequisite.

[Spaarky]

I am with Gm Lamplighter on this. It says you gain Character Traits and eidolons are not characters. I think the text also implies that you have to have traits in the first place to get more of them.

[David Neilson]

Actually right in the APG tright under the first discussion of traits this is discussed. It says "Character traits are only for player characters. If you want an NPC to have traits, that NPC must “buy” them with the Additional Traits feat."

[Spaarky]

Which makes it clear that an Eidolon or AC can't have it because they are not characters or Non-Player-Chracters.

[Nefreet]

Eidolons and Animal Companions are NPCs.

[nosig]

wow... looks like this is going to be another YMMV. I'm marking it FAQ and moving on...

[Eric Clingenpeel]

Yeah, this is a question I've wondered for a while, both for Eidolons and Animal Companions. I'm FAQing, but watching.

[Andrew Christian]

I don't believe there is any language currently in the rules that would preclude this.

That isn't to say that a clarification couldn't happen that added to the current language though.

[Spaarky]

Nefreet wrote:

Eidolons and Animal Companions are NPCs.

Do you have a source for this? Here are my sources indicating that an Eidolon and AC are not NPC's or PC's for that matter.

Core Rulebook:

"Aside from the players, every other person encountered in the game world is a nonplayer character (NPC). These characters are designed and controlled by the GM to fill every role from noble king to simple baker. While some of these characters use player classes, most rely upon basic NPC classes, allowing them to be easily generated. The following rules govern all of the NPC classes and include information on generating quick NPCs for an evening’s game."

In Ultimate Campaign Eidolons and Animal Companions are listed in the companions section of the book. This is the description given:

Companions
In a typical campaign, each player controls one character. However, there are several ways for you to temporarily or permanently gain the assistance of a companion, [b]such as an animal companion, a cohort, an eidolon, or a familiar[b]. The combat advantages of controlling a second creature are obvious, but having a companion also has drawbacks and requires an understanding of both your role and the GM’s in determining the creature’s actions. This section addresses common issues for companions and the characters who use them.

I get that the feat has no requirements, but the note that if an NPC wants traits they have to take this feat demonstrates that they have to either be a PC or NPC and not a companion.

[David Neilson]

Would you argue that a cohort from the leadership feat is not a NPC and also not able to take the feat?

[nosig]

David Neilson wrote:

Would you argue that a cohort from the leadership feat is not a NPC and also not able to take the feat?

I would actually think "that a cohort from the leadership feat is not a..." PFS thing, and should be discussed with your GM, rather than bounced off the posters on a PFSOP board... you'll make betther headway that way, and get a more workable answer. (IMHO)

[David Neilson]

A fair point, but I was trying to think of the nearest thing where there is something in the game that would qualify for feats, but might not fall under 'NPC'. It just seems that slicing it up by Player Character, Non-Player Character, and Companion is awkward.

[Nefreet]

Chris Mullican wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Eidolons and Animal Companions are NPCs.

Do you have a source for this?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Animal Companions, Familiars, Eidolons, pets, summons, what-have-you are all NPCs. "NPC" stands for "Non Player Character".

Only PCs ("Player Characters") are controlled by players. Everything else, by definition, and name, is an NPC.

In reality, these are meant to be controlled by the GM. In practice most of these examples are controlled by players, but that does not subtract from the fact that they are NPCs.

And NPCs can take the Additional Traits feat, as described in the APG.

[nosig]

the "is a Companion/Mount/Familiar/etc. an NPC or a Class Feature" question got pounded a lot on the threads where people were trying to limit ACs - and stating that they were NPCs and thus under control of the Judge, or Class Features of a PC and thus under control of the Player. When I lost interest in that discussion they had still not decided and had broken into name calling. This thread looks like it could easily go that way... with the forces wanting to limit Companions/Mounts/etc. now calling them Class Features in order to limit some asspect of them, rather than calling them NPCs to limit some other aspect of them. And the forces wanting greater freedom holding tight to the other side of the issue...

[Mistwalker]

I am not seeing any harm in animal companions (with 3+ int), mounts, familiars or eidolons taking the feat Additional Traits.

I like the idea of them with greater class skills (ease of faith - diplomacy for a lion looking cute and cuddly) or sacred touch (licking a team member to keep them alive).