Scaling back mythic tiers


Wrath of the Righteous


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm reading through all the threads here about the difficulty of later chapter encounters...Just starting to play this AP with 5 characters: paladin, fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard. We are an experienced bunch but our style does not necessarily focus on optimization. I'm wondering though, should I scale back the mythic tiers available to characters? Has anyone taken this approach? Perhaps 5 spaced incrementally instead of 10?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm thinking of doing this if we play WotR with my group. Basically only giving half the mythic tier and maybe also limiting the mythic stat bonuses to a +1 instead of a +2.

I'm also wondering whether that would be enough to balance the AP for my group of experienced players.


Olwen wrote:

I'm thinking of doing this if we play WotR with my group. Basically only giving half the mythic tier and maybe also limiting the mythic stat bonuses to a +1 instead of a +2.

I'm also wondering whether that would be enough to balance the AP for my group of experienced players.

Hopefully we can get some thoughts from folks who have been through it. This will also be my first time integrating mythic into a campaign so I'm flying blind.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Double the number of Trials needed per Tier. Or just don't announce when Tiers happen. I've seen one thread about non-Mythic characters going through the AP as an experiment, though there was a high mortality rate at some points. Half the tiers might be quite viable.


Tangent101 wrote:
Double the number of Trials needed per Tier. Or just don't announce when Tiers happen. I've seen one thread about non-Mythic characters going through the AP as an experiment, though there was a high mortality rate at some points. Half the tiers might be quite viable.

Thanks Tangent - that's precisely what I was thinking. Interesting too, I've also thought about a non-mythic campaign using the AP as the core story.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have slowed mythic tiers later on, I caught on a bit slow. After 4th tier I added one trial needed to advance. That could put the PCs at 8th tier by the end and I hope that helps out. I have also considered using the slow xp track as well but its mostly late for that.

Either way, with 5 experienced players you will have to adjust the encounters by a lot.


Seannoss wrote:

I have slowed mythic tiers later on, I caught on a bit slow. After 4th tier I added one trial needed to advance. That could put the PCs at 8th tier by the end and I hope that helps out. I have also considered using the slow xp track as well but its mostly late for that.

Either way, with 5 experienced players you will have to adjust the encounters by a lot.

Thanks Seannoss. One thing I guess I didn't consider too is what happens if cohorts or additional party members come into play. That could further disrupt things...


I don't see a problem with the Mythic Tiers. I'm currently nearing the end of the Sword of Valor and things are going quite good.

What I have noticed is the fights I expect to be epic in nature have been really easy. And the easy fights turned out to be more challenging fights. This is pretty typical though in APs I've run before so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I guess I thought those big mythic BBEG would be more survivable. They fell fast just like they do in any other AP. And just like other APs it's the lesser encounter with lots of action economy are ones that prove to be the biggest threats.

I also don't play monsters in dungeon setting just waiting in their respective rooms to be slaughtered. I have the commotion of combat in one room delectable via perception taking distance and barriers into play. So monsters from other rooms might come to join the fight. As well I have monsters that feel out matched fall back into rooms with other monsters.

So far Mythic has led to some really great combat session. I'm looking forward to seeing what further mythic tiers bring.


voska66 wrote:


I also don't play monsters in dungeon setting just waiting in their respective rooms to be slaughtered. I have the commotion of combat in one room delectable via perception taking distance and barriers into play. So monsters from other rooms might come to join the fight. As well I have monsters that feel out matched fall back into rooms with other monsters.

I'll keep this technique in my back pocket if needed - I like it.


voska66 wrote:

I don't see a problem with the Mythic Tiers. I'm currently nearing the end of the Sword of Valor and things are going quite good.

From what I've read, the problem of "easy encounters" become even more pronounced in Chapters 5 and 6. So, instead of rebuilding encounters I thought I might award fewer mythic tiers (ie, revamp trials per tier or simply change when they are awarded).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Things are okay through the end of book 2. Although I did scale up the mythic chimera...almost too much. Its the combination of higher levels and mythic tiers that build upon each other. At the very least it makes the encounters unpredictable. As Voska said, many of the fights haven't gone as planned.


Myrnn,

I'd talk to you players first about it. This is an AP that brings you from 1st to level 20 and tier 10 Mythic. That's a goal my player want to reach. If I scale mythic tiers back they would be upset with me.

If your players are ok with that then going to tier 5 and level 20 can work just as well and the end fights I suspect will be only a little tougher.

Alternatively if your players want the full meal deal here don't rebuild and just apply an advanced template once or twice on on encounters that you know will be too easy. Don't over do it though as there should be some really easy encounters, they are Mythic Heroes after all and should feel like it. It's a balancing act really and you judge by the fun you players are having. If they are enjoying the easy fights let them enjoy it but step it up when they start getting bored. As you get closer to climax apply the templates more liberally if needed.


Helpful thoughts, thanks all.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
voska66 wrote:
I don't see a problem with the Mythic Tiers. I'm currently nearing the end of the Sword of Valor and things are going quite good.

How experienced are your players, Voska? You mention GM'ing multiple APs; is it with the same players?


Olwen wrote:
voska66 wrote:
I don't see a problem with the Mythic Tiers. I'm currently nearing the end of the Sword of Valor and things are going quite good.
How experienced are your players, Voska? You mention GM'ing multiple APs; is it with the same players?

Same group of players. Been gaming with this group since the mid 80s. I've run them through Council of Thieves, King Maker and now this one. We switch off GMing and I've played Rise of the Rune Lords. We've had many home brew adventures mostly to level 1-10 with the odd one getting into the mid teens. So this with this AP this will be the first time we actually go to level 20 in Pathfinder. Should be interesting.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, until book two things went swimmingly. It's book three (and forward) which are my concern. Things have noticeably changed now that tier three abilities have become available, another mythic feat has been used and the party had time to finally get some better gear.


magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, until book two things went swimmingly. It's book three (and forward) which are my concern. Things have noticeably changed now that tier three abilities have become available, another mythic feat has been used and the party had time to finally get some better gear.

Conceptually, if the players would have agreed to tone down the advancement rate of mythic tiers prior to starting, do you think this would have made the later books more challenging? Or is it the combination of high level play and mythic in general?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Third tier, I believe, has the best inherent ability...being able to take another standard action for a mythic point. That eliminates all the misc worries that melee types have and enables them to get a full round attack every round.
Anything that gives extra actions compounds that ability (I'm looking at you haste! and mythic haste which I had to nerf so at least the PCs had to spend a mythic point to close). There's a reason that dual initiative is the most powerful monster ability and its only a +1 CR.
I've found it silly that the only thing that makes a challenging encounter is dual initiative and mythic power attack...that kills PCs in a hurry. (I tossed out mythic vital strike already, see free standard actions above)
Ooops...and I hope that slowing down mythic progress will reduce the amount of rewriting I have to do by the end. That is my goal behind slowing them down.

Scarab Sages

Between dual initiative and mythic Improved Init, I've actually had a PC delay their action until the end of the round, just to make it to where the enemy didn't get two full round actions back to back.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Third tier allows the ability to move before or after a full attack via Fleet Warrior (Champion Ability). It also has Recuperation as a base ability, which allows the party to rest one hour for one mythic power and recuperate all their spells and "limited per day" abilities. Aside from allowing much more exploration, it also gives them great flexibility. And it has a mythic feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you tone down the tier advancement I'd certainly run that by your table beforehand, your players might want to know the lay of the land before they start. That said, what you're hearing about a ramp in difficulty for a DM at book 3 and above is dead on the money.

Not scaling back at all has worked just fine at my table, it may or may not for yours. We start the last AP this weekend and with 5 players its been a fun run so far. Although it would seem my table is a bit "non traditional" I'm told. Keep an eye on the things and since it sounds like you know your group already you should be fine.

Liberty's Edge

My group is starting Sword of Valor this weekend. I have decided to cut out all the extra boons that are loaded on the party such as the increased campaign traits and Gray Garrison boons. I am hoping that if they don't get anything extra I can play it by ear later on down the road and pump things up a little where I need to. My group really wants to hit level 20 and tier 10 so cutting back the tiers isn't an option for me.


Well, we are having fun going through the first book. We agreed to scale back the mythic elements so we'll see how that develops.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Wrath of the Righteous / Scaling back mythic tiers All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Wrath of the Righteous