Crap like this is why I ban the druid.
Well, one of the reasons.
Playing primarily levels 2-10, I have more problems with Druids than any other class. Just one of their main class features would be powerful, but they get spell-casting AND wildshape AND a dire tiger.
It's utterly ridiculous.
|
*shrugs* It's way less bad than, say, an optimized Heavens Oracle with Heighten Spell Color Spray-ing everything of 10 HD or less for DC 21 or they lose and die, to pick a save-or-die caster at random. That ends encounters, not just murders single enemies.
Also, the Bard is spending a round buffing you to get that result, as is the Paladin. Without the Paladin casting Bless and the Bardic Performance, and the flanking (all of which necessitate actions from people other than you) you're only hitting at +14. +12 if you don't get to buff yourself.
When you think of that Pounce as the sum total damage of what, four attack actions, does it really look so bad?
GMF at +2 would only be on a single natural weapon, not all 3 just as a FYI.
And what are you going to do against flying targets?
And what are you going to do against flying targets?At 7th level, Air Walk. Before that? Either rely on someone to cast Fly like every other melee character, or take the form of something that can fly.
It's solid, just not broken by reasonable standards, IMO.
Agreed. If the entire rest of the party is spending their time buffing the superdruid, it's not really just the druid being super. Also, taking a flying form negates the "I'm a dire tiger, RAWR" problem.
EDIT: Also, how does the GM define familiar as it applies to what forms the druid can take.
|
I think you're a little low on your damage estimate/average from your full attack/pounce OP.
Assuming all attacks hit on a pounce, a +6 Str bonus, and flat +1 from GMF:
2 claws = 4d4+14
bite = 2d6+7
rake (2 claws) = 4d4+14
Rhino Hide = 2d6
4d6 + 8d4 + 35 total possible damage
Nasty.
Still, it's relatively weak compared to what they could do in 3.5
I think Power Attack might have been worth it, but only because you can rely on party buffs for a bonus to hit. It would only be -2/+4 for you, but multiplied by 5 attacks, that's a potential extra 20 damage per round.
Your AC and HP will eventually become weaknesses, but you will be amazing for at least a few more levels.
I recommend Powerful Shape as your 7th level feat, especially if you're using Grab a lot.
I agree with Tinalles, playing Druids can be a major pain, and they deserve awesomeness.
You seem to be coordinating and working with your team mates and not dominating the field, which is a great way to play a powerful character IMO.
Let's be fair, not everything is the druid's credit.
The paladin gave a +1 morale, the bard another +2 competence bonus. Otherwise the druid would have +16 (which is attainable easily by a 5th-6th level fighter).
He will only charge once, so after the initial hit, he loses that +2 from his charge. He wont be able to flank his target everytime.
And, as pointed above, he needs 3 casts of Magic Fang to increase all his three attacks. I am assuming you are able to cast on animal form, otherwise you cant cast it at all, because you dont have those limbs when casting on humanoid form. And since the spell only lasts 6 minutes, you will have to know you are going into combat and cast them beforehand.
He has a +6 STR bonus, that means he has a 22 strength at that level, his attack is comparable to that of a fighter, but needs a lot of setup to attain the same result. He attacks with large natural weapons of: 2 claws 1d8+6, bite 2d6+9 (stats unbuffed).
Next level I'll pick up heavy armor prof so I'll also have the best AC in group.
You will need a dragonhide or stoneplate with the wild enchantment for that to work.
We all can build a level 6 fighter or barbarian build with a greatsword easily doing +15/+10 with 2d6+12 or something stupid like that. Unbuffed.
Quickly on top of my head, fighter 6, +6 BAB +5 STR, +1 focus, +1 mastery (total +13 so far), +2 bard, +1 paladin and if you have magic weapon available, why not add it aswell for another +1, its a first level spell. Total +17/+12
Lets take a greatsword, 2d6, +9 from str, +2 specialization, +1 mastery, +1 magic weapon. Total 2d6+13, that if the party's wizard doesnt Enlarge you.
That is a lot of preparation and buffs to get such strong attacks, and if you pull it out, well deserved.
But every combat is easy if you can prepare for it. Few weeks ago, me and my group killed a Black Pudding (CR 7 or so) with level 3 characters, because we prepared outselves and had a plan to kill it really fast.
PS: Of course your GM will try to kill you, a giant tiger is threatening in combat.
I just noticed something:
I cast GMF for +2
GMF:
This spell functions like magic fang, except that the enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls is +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5). This bonus does not allow a natural weapon or unarmed strike to bypass damage reduction aside from magic.
That means: +1 on levels 5-7, +2 from 8-11, +3 from 12-15, +4 from 16-19 and +5 at 20. Unless im mistaken.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is the OP asking a question, or just bragging?
I think he is just being excited about his character. Sounds like a lot of fun.
you're at the right range for super melee character fun time. give it 5-6 more levels, and you'll be still in wildshape, but casting will probably take over (multiple castings of elementally substituted fireseeds and decent bab will trump anything you can do on pouncing).
That's not even including your ability to heal, but it looks like your group has a lot of healing potentiality in it already, so that's less of an issue. I'd be concerned about your character surviving save-based attacks.
+13/8
2d6+17
I didnt take power attack in consideration (if you do, it will go up to 2d6+19 damage, but will reduce his attack to +15/+10), but the final result will be stronger (in terms of damage) than that same barbarian.
It was just an example anyway, i wasnt trying to brag.It was just to say that his damage output, with that amount of preparation, is nothing unexpected of a melee focused character.
Guess I posted this in a different version of this thread or something... well here it is again:
Yeah, that is good, but not that different then what a raging barbarian or smiting paladin could do. I imagine that you have a pretty bad AC, and then there are other limits of wildshaping - no speech, no access to items, etc.
Wild armor is going to be a minimum of about 17,000gp and not something you should be able to attain until about 9th level. If your GM is going above suggest wealth and/or playing with a high point buy, they should be prepared to adjust things.
Finally augment summons is amazing, although power attack is no joke!
My advice would be to wildshape into something more stable, and save the pouncing death stuff for an emergency.
These days to be strong as a melee Druid, you've got to make sacrifices to your casting stat, especially in a 20 pt buy.
Fixed that for you.
If you think your druid at lvl 6 caused problems... you never saw an elven Ninja at lvl 6 kill someone with a Wakizashi (light weapon, so Finesse triggered!) from invisibility and force the bad guy to roll fortitude vs. ca 50 to either instantly die or suffer the massive ammount of 30 damage, for it was a dammed lucky Coup De Grace... Not sure if the blade was poisonoed atop of that. The GM screamed mordio... and later made sure that the enemies were never caught in sleep again.
Just the power at these levels is silly, I found myself pouncing at +19 on 3 attacks as dire tiger. +4 BAB, +6 for STR, +2 charge, +2 flanking, +2 for our bard buff, and just 1 round of buffs. I cast GMF for +2 and the pally cast bless for a final +1.
As others have pointed out, Greater Magic Fang is a +1 to each of your attacks. You can choose to instead get a +2 to one attack when you reach 8th level.
You have an 18 Strength Druid - it's not surprising you're going to hit hard. What's your Wisdom, Con, AC? Not sure where you're getting 4d4 *and* 4d6 of damage, instead of 2d6. Attacks at +18, and damage with bard, GMF, and Strength should be:
2 claws = 4d4+18
bite = 2d6+9
44 average, 6 of which is due to the bard, and a third of your attack bonus is due to others. Also, questionable to get charge bonus to hit after the first attack (plenty of threads on it for anyone who wants to debate it).
Much like a TWF or a Monk, you benefit greatly from buffing (including flank), because you have multiple attacks.
FYI to others: he does not get Rake until 8th level.
*I cannot believe the the impertinence, the sheer audacity, of these Druids. Killing things like that. Don't they know that only wizards are allowed to do that. Druids are too overpowered, and therefore not allowed at my table. I can't have the players actually killing the enemies I throw at them* sarcasm.
Seriously. I think there is some sticker shock when it comes to Druids around that level. They get a fairly big, sudden, spike in Melee effectiveness, but it is not too far beyond what other Melee fighters can do. Other Melee fighters just get smaller boosts every level, instead of every 2-4 levels for Druids.
As for a Druid's spellcasting. If a Druid is casting buffs on himself, he isn't attacking. If he is throwing spells at his enemies, he isn't attacking, and the enemy will be more likely to save, because his wisdom is suffering. Druids can do a lot, but they can't necessarily do it all real well.
and a 9th level druid with +11 to hit will miss more than hit, on average, as a lot of even the casters and "low" ac characters will have an AC of 21-22, meaning you'll only hit 50%ish of the time. a dedicated melee character will be 26-28, meaning that you'll need a 15-17 to hit.
I would ignore all buffs other than what the druid itself can cast in these discussions, as you can't assume that they will be available to you, or even that they will be available to you all the time should you have the appropriate party members.
As a comparison, a level 9 barbarian with a 26 strength while raging and wielding a +1 furious greatsword has +18 to hit (9 Bab, 8 str, 3 wpn, 1 weapon focus, -3 Power Attack) and deals 2d6 +24. A fighter is actually better at this level, but i'll leave them out for now.
In short, Melee druids are strong, but they don't significantly outpace or often even keep up with full bab melee machines.