Yeah. I don't want to nerf peaking. I realized as soon as we wanted to play Mayor Kendra Devrin that you should replace as soon as you see a card and not repeat when you actually encounter it (like Mike said above). Remember, its not a rule yet. It was something Mike was thinking about. And when you first start thinking about something you sometimes can overlook a thing or two. Which is what happened we Mike simply said "encounter" originally. That is why we should test it out.
I think having to remember which ones I've replaced was less cumbersome than the pain of switching groups has been. I just thought it was something I should note. And if I forgot that I replaced a basic bane with another basic bane and replaced it with a non-basic bane, I'm probably hurting myself anyway.
Card's don't have memories, but you do. That was part of the original description of "Card's don't have memories."
Mike's position has been (if I can summarize it) that it is best to try to avoid having your remember things. Especially complicated things. But sometimes that can't be avoided. This might be just that kind of case. The cards that let you examine and scout are some of the best cards to have. They let you know that it is safe to explore. Seoni thinking she is safe by playing her magic spyglass when she sees a Basic bane but then exploring and replacing it with a Harpy totally undermines the usage of scouting.
The most you will have to do is keep a little list of the cards you replaced that still ended up being Basic or Elite. Just jot down Woods, Longsword and then you'll know the next time you see the Longsword you can't replace it.
I don't think this system is going to be perfect, but it still seems to have the potential to be much more manageable than tracking multiple groups.
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I anticipate this sort of thing becoming less and less of a problem...Once we start playig Skulls and Shackles, I'd imagine that'll be where the majority of regular play is happening, but I can keep RotR ready to go for new folk.
I agree with this "prognostication" for the future. Because one of the complaints about the Runelords AP for PACG is that the game is "too easy," I anticipate Paizo / Lone Shark upping the difficulty to some degree in future games. This may leave Runelords as a perpetual "beginner's" or introductory set to the card game...the so-called "easy" setting to explore the mechanics before delving in to the tougher parts of the game.
We'll see if this happens in the future. One way or another, I don't anticipate using a rule like this. I prefer taking the extra time to "reset" a box and keep track of the cards removed from the game to the overhead introduced while playing the game of re-drawing cards if a basic / elite one is come upon.
I used this method again last night. Switched from a group my wife and I play to a group I play solo. Only took about 10 minutes to switch the character decks. And again it worked out really well. 3 characters, about 8 cards taken out via this rule (again, I'm using the "you can draw twice for Basics in Fortress of the Stone Giants" version of the rule).
I totally prefer the official rule (it makes me feel like I really beat the game) but for "alternate" groups I'm liking this so far.
That later. So I'm in Deck 4. If I spot a Basic, I draw a replacement. If the replacement is a Basic I draw again. Whatever I end up with I stop at that point. The reason being, under the normal rules you would have less and less Basics the further you went through the Adventure Path. Said another way, the odds of encountering a Basic is decreased for each progressive Adventure (really for each Scenario). But if you replace each Basic only once in this variant, the odds of encountering a Basic aren't decreased at all (other than by the fact you add more cards each Adventure). So I wanted to simulate a bit the idea that by Deck 5 or Deck 6 you really should have slimmer odds of getting a Basic encounter than you did in Deck 3 or Deck 4.
It hasn't happened too much. Maybe 10% of the time.
I haven't tried my approach in deck 5 yet, but once I do the rule I'll use will be:
Basics can be replaced up to 3 times, Elites 1 time. And any card in the replacement cycle sets the max times you can replace. So if I have an Elite then draw a Basic, I'm stuck with the Basic, because I've already replaced one time and there was an Elite in the cycle. If I have a Basic and drawn an Elite, I'm stuck with the Elite, because I've already replaced one time and there was an Elite in the cycle. I can't think of a succinct way to say that yet.
And I always replace cards from too high of a deck and they don't count as part of the replacement cycle.
I'm going to play again tonight (hopefully) and this time actually record all my replacing.
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I think the memory issues should be eliminated, even if it makes peeking stronger. If I use Augury and replace a Basic with a Basic, I shouldn't have to remember that I've already replaced him once, especially since there might be another copy in the deck I've not seen yet. Same thing if I somehow manage to fail the checks on a Basic bane and it gets shuffled in. It's true it muddles a bit the intent of the rule, but it also makes these situations much cleaner.
I haven't started deck 5, but when I do, I'll try a version of the rule similar to Hawkmoon's, the difference being that the maximum number of redraws is set by the card I'm currently looking at. In that variant, Elite-Basic would be redrawn (Elites are allowed to be redrawn once and there have been no redraws yet, then Basics is allowed to be redrawn 3 times and there has only been 1 redraw so far)
Ok. I played Valeros, Seoni, and Kyra in The Black Tower tonight. Here is how it went. Examined cards count how many cards I examined. Some of them were the same cards being examined multiple times.
Encounters: 31 | Basics Replacements: 9 | Drew Twice: 2
Examined: 14 | Basic Replacements: 4 | Drew Twice: 1
Draw From the Box: 6 | Basic Replacements: 2 | Drew Twice: 0
So in about 1/3 of actions, I was replacing Basics. And in about 1/4 of those instances, I drew twice to replace double Basics.
I drew a Dog after double replacing during an Augury. I was able to remember not to replace him when I encountered him later.
This is an optional, and I suspect that if Skull and Shackles has the same adventure path rule as RotR (which seems likely), this optional role would be useable there as well. I'd imagine though that the RotR rule will be the typical standard.
I wonder what rule the society play will follow, since removing cards from the box won't make sense. It might be to just drop the low-level cards.
I've done this (or at least my re-draw version of it) the last 4 times I've played Fortress. And I've liked it well enough. Is it ideal? No, ideal is playing as if you only have 1 group in the box. But since that isn't possible, I'd say this is a reasonable accommodation for people that don't feel like switching out the removed/culled cards.
My redraw happens a few times per game, and I still occasionally end up with a Basic even after that. That means that in Hook Mountain Massacre (which I haven't tried with these rules) I'd expect to end up with Basic encounters even more. And by the time in I'm Sins of the Saviors, redrawing three times on Basics will make it unlikely I'll have a Basic encounter. All the more so in Spires of Xin-Shalast. I think that is a far approximation of how things would go in those adventures under the normal rules.
