Talisman of Ultimate Evil

Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Need help on a ruling. Would the Talisman of Ultimate Evil work on a Paladin who took the archetype "warrior of the holy light" which sacrifices spellcasting for enhanced uses of lay on hands? For reference the Talisman instantly kills a "good divine spellcaster." The user saw his holy symbol and made an educated guess.

I've made a preliminary ruling of "yes" because the Paladin still has other divine spellcasting abilities such as detect evil and divine bond. However, the archetype notes the paladin has no caster levels, gains no spellcasting abilities, and cannot use spell-trigger items. Note that I've already checked and Paladin is listed as a "spellcasting" class.

Thoughts? Given there's a PC on the line, insight appreciated.

Shadow Lodge


Detect Evil and Divine Bond are magical, but they are not spellcasting abilities.

The standard paladin is a spellcasting class, but if you trade away spellcasting - such that you cannot activate a wand because you have no class spell list - you are no longer a divine spellcaster.

EDIT: While that's clear RAW I'm not sure it's the intent. It seems strange that a standard ranger who happens to be good-aligned would be vulnerable but a paladin archetype isn't. I personally would have phrased the talisman's ability as "a character who gains personal power from a good-aligned divine source" which would rule out rangers, druids, and oracles who lack deities but include things like the Dawnflower Dervish bard, celestial bloodline sorcerers, and paladins without spells - and would target neutral clerics of good gods instead of good clerics of neutral gods.

That said, I'd still advise no in this case because when in doubt always choose the thing that doesn't involve an instant PC death with no save and no body for Resurrection.

Silver Crusade

Think that sounds reasonable and with a player's character in limbo, I like to err on the player's side.

Scarab Sages


If he unable to cast spell he is not a spellcaster. At least as I understand. Even a regular paladin before level 4 is not a spellcaster yet.

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