I could see the rune giants handled with mythic stuff.
Even so, the resulting CR is gonna get blown up the roof.
well giants revisited has 2 rune giant npcs one that was both CR 21(the equivalent of adding 8 mythic tiers) so i don't think they are afraid of such npcs.
well giants revisited has 2 rune giant npcs one that was both CR 21(the equivalent of adding 8 mythic tiers) so i don't think they are afraid of such npcs.
That they add class levels and/or mythic tiers to a rune giant, I have absolutely no problem with it. The issue here is that having rune giant npcs wouldn't be suitable for mid to high-level games. The highest NPC in the codex is CR 20, the Fire Giant King.
If the next codex bumps the CR to say, 30, than yes, go for it, make as many rune giant npcs as you wish, because the limit would be pushed forward, but if CR 20 is the limit... I don't think they should bother making rune giant npcs if the CR adjustment is gonna be minimal.
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[tangent]
The concept of Rune Giants, being Stone Giants modified by the Thassilonians for their armies, could be adapted to other races, such as Orcs or Hobgoblins, by making a sort of 'Rune Template' (designed based on the differences between Stone Giant and Rune Giant) and stepping it down for a lower HD recipient.
And so the *concept* of Rune Giants could be used without actually using Stone Giants as the base. (Going along with Golarion history, hobgoblins may not have existed yet, to be so modified, no matter how old-school appropriate Asian-esqued hobgoblins might be, but orcs surely did.)
The Thassilonians (of Eurythnia?) also dominated the heck out of Black Dragons. Applying such a treatment to create a Rune Dragon would surely not help the 'too high CR' problem, but make for a memorable creature, one which 'mundane' dragons would be as eager to see destroyed (since, like Rune Giants commanding other giants, a Rune Dragon would be able to command and dominate non-Rune dragons!).
[/tangent]
Comparing the vamps in Monster Codex 1 to the possibility of rune giants in 2, they didn't have too many actual vampires in the Monster Codex, instead there was several vampire servants. If you could pair the rune giant with some minions (say like with that runeslave template?), you might be able to get a variety of CRs in there. Also remember that rune giants are associated with magically modified taiga giants, so you could include the rune giants in with them.
Also remember we got in Codex 1 those class templates, so you can add them to the rune giants without as much trouble as adding full on class levels.
Edit: At most, the class templates add +3 to the CR. Which would make a normal rune giant with such a template top out at 20 CR.
I thought tiaga giants were the base for rune giants not stone giants.
My list is pretty short.
I want Doppelgangers.
They're fun, and there's pretty much nothing about them in Pathfinder so far.
This kind of thing might be why it wouldn't be easy. (remember Paizo stuff is usually PG-13 friendly)
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I honestly wouldn't mind any of the following monsters in a Advanced Monster Codex:
Aboleth
Ash Giants
Darkfolk
Derros
Dryads
Centaurs
Cloud Giants
Desert Giants
Ettins
Formians
Hags
Harpies
Jungle Giants
Lamias
Liches
Locathahs
Marsh Giants
Medusa
Merfolk
Minotaurs
Morlocks
Mummies
Nymphs
Ocean Giants
Rakshasas
Rune Giants
Satyr
Shadow Giants
Skum
Sphinxes
Stone Giants
Storm Giants
Treants
Lycanthropes
Wights
Wood Giants
Oooo...Half-Dragons! Also Half-Fiends and Half-Celestials! Maybe they could include templated creatures in an Advanced Monster Codex. ^_^
This kind of thing might be why it wouldn't be easy. (remember Paizo stuff is usually PG-13 friendly)That's... not really relevant, in any way. Sure, Ditto can be used to breed with any Pokemon. So what? That doesn't mean Doppelganger reproduction has to be handled in any more detail than, say... Half-Dragons (who are "only rarely the result of dragons mating with other creatures"). Or Half-Orks, Half-Elves...
If the only ideas you can come up with when thinking about doppelgangers are X-rated, then you should get your mind out of the gutter =P
I don't, but I know a ****load of players and GMs who like using Doppelgangers that way, Hell, 'Doppelgangers' stories usually have some forms of it.
well giants revisited has 2 rune giant npcs one that was both CR 21(the equivalent of adding 8 mythic tiers) so i don't think they are afraid of such npcs.That they add class levels and/or mythic tiers to a rune giant, I have absolutely no problem with it. The issue here is that having rune giant npcs wouldn't be suitable for mid to high-level games. The highest NPC in the codex is CR 20, the Fire Giant King.
If the next codex bumps the CR to say, 30, than yes, go for it, make as many rune giant npcs as you wish, because the limit would be pushed forward, but if CR 20 is the limit... I don't think they should bother making rune giant npcs if the CR adjustment is gonna be minimal.
i see no rule anywhere saying it had to be 20 CR max in the first place, only that it ended up that way. that being said set made a great point about npcs for rune giants not necessarily being rune giants.
i see no rule anywhere saying it had to be 20 CR max in the first place, only that it ended up that way. that being said set made a great point about npcs for rune giants not necessarily being rune giants.well giants revisited has 2 rune giant npcs one that was both CR 21(the equivalent of adding 8 mythic tiers) so i don't think they are afraid of such npcs.That they add class levels and/or mythic tiers to a rune giant, I have absolutely no problem with it. The issue here is that having rune giant npcs wouldn't be suitable for mid to high-level games. The highest NPC in the codex is CR 20, the Fire Giant King.
If the next codex bumps the CR to say, 30, than yes, go for it, make as many rune giant npcs as you wish, because the limit would be pushed forward, but if CR 20 is the limit... I don't think they should bother making rune giant npcs if the CR adjustment is gonna be minimal.
I see no rule about that either; it's just something I noticed in the first codex.
Oooo...Half-Dragons! Also Half-Fiends and Half-Celestials! Maybe they could include templated creatures in an Advanced Monster Codex. ^_^
The first codex already has templated creatures
*points to the Vampires*However... I feel like other templates should be used instead of these three. I dunno, I feel like they are always stealing the spotlight or something.
- Animal Lord/Lady
- DevilBound
- Ghost
- Lich
- Werewolf
- Skeletal Champion
- Worm that Walks
- Zombie Lord
- Graveknight
- Mummified
These templates could use some codex entries.
Oh s!#& i would love to see some great worm that walks stuff.
Ok stole theses ones from the other guys list.
2)Aeons(I'd like to see some rogue Aeons)
9)Inevitables
10)Qlippoths(A redeemed Qlippoth in the batch)
13)Divs
14)Demodand
15)Kyton(The more cenobite looking ones are cool and the one from the Best1. Kytons are pretty cool.)
16)Asuras(One of my most favourite monster types)
19)Oni
What I would add for the other 12: (Ok stole some of these too.)
1) Darkfolk (Slayers are one of my favourite monsters mainly because of the art on the back of the bestiary 2 helps me imagine them as twitchy greedy little psychos)
2)Slimes & Oozes
3)Androids
4)Rakshasas (Need more love!)
5) Medusa
6) Robots
7) Ghosts/Haunts/Wraiths or whatever.
8) Liches/Demi-Liches...maybe a bit more of an exploration of what the F you do when you're an immortal corpse.
9) Treants
10)Vishkanya
11 & 12) Maybe make up two or more whole new monsters. ;)
...
- Darkfolks Codex.
- Dragons Codex.
- Giants Codex.
- Hags Codex.
- Lycanthropes/Therianthropes Codex.
- Undead/Haunts Codex.
- 'Templates' Codex/Codices.
- '0HD' Codices.
- 'Lovecraftian' Codex.
- etc...
I don't, but I know a ****load of players and GMs who like using Doppelgangers that way, Hell, 'Doppelgangers' stories usually have some forms of it.Some of the Doppelganger stories I know have it as a side note, but it's rarely the core of the story.
If GMs can't come up with alternatives, that's even more reason to include them in a Monsterous Codex, to show alternatives.
that's why I said "in some forms" (even if it's just a side note).
and yeah, I agree that some writtings about them are needed.
MORE RACIAL WEAPONS!
More stuff with "orc" and "goblin" in its name please.
me to i want more rakshsasa with special power and ability. Need more love with Rakshasa.
Lycanthropes would be nice, along with duergar and derro. Id really love for a bunch of different mummy-types. And lich types. It takes a lot of time to come up with the higher level undead spellcasters and a lot of us gm's don't have the time.
Centaur: Clasical monster race. I would like to se feats or an archetipe who take advantage of the centaur horse hoofs, being mounted by without a real mount.
Cyclop: Cyclops have a more glorious pass, like the troglodites. I would like to know wath exactly happense with the cyclop civilization, and to see an ancient cyclop variant.
Derros: I´m interested in how derros insanity affects their society
Minotaur: Minotaur apeared alongside orcs, gnolls, goblins and the other ones in "clasic monster revised", but the where forgotten in monster codex. They merit their place. Minotaur npcs could include Baphomet priests and antipaladin.
You might want to rejoice, because these are presented in the Inner Seas Monster codex, alongside other monsters ;)
OK... time to update this thread ^_^
My list (20 species):
- Merfolks
- Adaros
- Deep Merfolks
- Ichthyocentaurs
- Dark Ones
- Hill Giants
- Stone Giants
- Harpies
- Changelings
- Catfolks
- Werewolves
- Tengus
- Kitsunes
- Deep Ones
- Firbolgs
- Animal Lords
- Liches
- Zombie Lords
- Skeletal Champions
- Mummy Lords
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I wouldn't like to see any of the PC appropriate races in a Monster Codex (e.g. aasimar, catfolk, naga, teifling, tengu, etc). These are races better left to players for creating. While it would be nice as a GM for precreated NPCs, I don't think they would be as impressive when used outside of a Campaign Setting.
No creatures made using templates. The ghoul (while not a template, they should be) and vampire sections of MC 1 were my least favorite. Ghouls were medium, except the ghoul animals. No ghasts or lacedons? Missed chance for Small and Large ghouls, any humanoid can be made into one. While the vampires had a slight size and race mix, they were disappointing to me.
No mindless or low Int (<6) creatures.
No races that are likely to be encountered solo.
I would really like to see fey represented. 1 or 2 water races. A planar race, perhaps Azer.
I would love to see the PC appropriate races in a Monster Codex.
I think an "allies codex" is probably the most logical next step as a follow up to the Monster Codex. There are a decent number of races which tend to be more neutral or work as player options, which could benefit from having statted individuals and are never going to show up in a normal NPC Codex (assuming we get another one?)
I should say non-core PC races.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I would love to see the PC appropriate races in a Monster Codex.
PC appropriate races really aren't monsters though. NPC Codex 2 fodder perhaps, but not monsters. The inclusion of ratfolk in the Monster Codex seemed odd to me, until someone pointed out their inclusion in Iron Gods.
Humans can be the greatest monsters of all;)
I am disappointed by the lack of gargoyles on people's wishlists.
Really diggin' the idea of putting Mi-Go and Veggipygmies in though.
I wouldn't like to see any of the PC appropriate races in a Monster Codex (e.g. aasimar, catfolk, naga, teifling, tengu, etc). These are races better left to players for creating. While it would be nice as a GM for precreated NPCs, I don't think they would be as impressive when used outside of a Campaign Setting.
Goblins, kobolds, hobgoblins, ratfolks, drows, duergars and orcs are all 0HD races. While they're often used as NPCs, it's still a great deal.
No creatures made using templates. The ghoul (while not a template, they should be) and vampire sections of MC 1 were my least favorite. Ghouls were medium, except the ghoul animals. No ghasts or lacedons? Missed chance for Small and Large ghouls, any humanoid can be made into one. While the vampires had a slight size and race mix, they were disappointing to me.
The lack of ghats and lacedons is indeed questionnable, seeing that the serpentfolks and sahuagins are racial variants. Still, having more templated NPCs is a good tool for less time-consuming preparations.
No mindless or low Int (<6) creatures.
Ogres... trolls... there are many tribal races that are dumb, but that shouldn't be a limiting factor to create NPCs.
No races that are likely to be encountered solo.
Like?
I would really like to see fey represented. 1 or 2 water races. A planar race, perhaps Azer.
Those can work. The reason I've suggested a lot of aquatic races is because there's a distinct lack of representation right now.
I think an "allies codex" is probably the most logical next step as a follow up to the Monster Codex. There are a decent number of races which tend to be more neutral or work as player options, which could benefit from having statted individuals and are never going to show up in a normal NPC Codex (assuming we get another one?)
I feel like it's because it's rare for players to be at odds with the standard PC races and/or good-aligned races. Most of the 1st Codex's races are kinda xenophobic to the other humanoid races. The standard PC races aren't much like that.
I'm all for more NPCs that are elves, dwarves, half-elves, gnomes, halflings and half-orcs, but I feel like they belong more for the NPC Codex, considering that altering the NPCs represented there is rather easy.
Aasimars? Hmmm... I feel like they're too urban or too blended in humanoid societies. You're not gonna find an enclave of aasimars as easily as a tribe of goblinoids. An aasimar might be the head of Iomedae's local church... but he or she might be the only aasimar of the town.
I can see gargoyles along with a lot more then just 20 creatures.
I think an "allies codex" is probably the most logical next step as a follow up to the Monster Codex. There are a decent number of races which tend to be more neutral or work as player options, which could benefit from having statted individuals and are never going to show up in a normal NPC Codex (assuming we get another one?)I feel like it's because it's rare for players to be at odds with the standard PC races and/or good-aligned races. Most of...
I think maybe I wasn't clear. IMHO, the 7 core races should be reserved for the NPC Codex, and honestly I would prefer future installments covering the "new" Paizo classes, from the APG on up.
And Allies codex would cover races like Tieflings, Kitsune, Merfolk, etc. Maybe some relevant non 0HD races like stone giants, Mafdet, etc.
If we're talking "give about 20 critters Class levels and let fly":
The Lovecraft Pack:
Deep Ones (and/or Skum, who had to carry that thematic water until B5)
Denizens of Leng
Elder Things
Gugs (admittedly, very little in either their PF writeup or their appearance in Lovecraft's fiction makes them seem terribly big on learning class skills, but hey, they seem like naturals for Bloodrager...)
Mi-Go
Moon-Beasts
Yithians
Zoogs
Lovecraft-like
Neh-Thalggu
General Nastiness
Ceratiodi
Dark Folk (all kinds)
Girtablilu
Hags (all sorts)
Myceloids
Rakshasas
Redcaps
Shobhad (a little Sword and Planet love)
Sinspawn
Svartalfar
Taiga Giants (I like 'em, but any Giant who hasn't gotten the treatment would do just as well)
Runners-Up/Alternates if Gugs and Neh-Thalggu and the like are too hard/don't wanna Lovecraft so much:
Lizardfolk
All Serpentfolk, all the time. MOER.
Troglodytes
Grays should be one of the monster groups to be presented and as a bonus, here's the list of roles they should get:
- Scientist (Alchemist [Vivisectionist])
- Enlightened Seer (Alchemist [Psychonaut])
- Prime Leader (Psychic [Psy-Tech discoveries; Mindtech discipline])
- Squad Commander (Kineticist [Aether])
- Shock Trooper #1 (Gunslinger [Techslinger])
- Shock Trooper #2 (Ranger [Trophy Hunter])
- Archivist (Bard [Phrenologist])
- Mind Locker (Mesmerist)
- Counselor (Sorcerer [Psychic Bloodline or Sage Wildblooded])
- Invasion Tactician (Fighter [Tactician])
For encounters, add the mutants from B5. Ok, you might get tired of orcs, but still... maybe mutants could be added in the Codex to complement XD
For rules:
- technology-related feats and skills
- new psychic spells
- new gadgets
- a new vehicle: a Medium flying saucer (5-by-5 ft square), equipped by technological firearms (2 one-handed firearms/1 two-handed firearm/1 heavy weapon), capable of flight.
As for the monster associated with it, we could go with a larger gray, similar to an overlord or more of a brute, something similar to an Elder Brain, which was a HUGE "human" brain that served as a leader figure for the mind flayers back in D&D, or a new Large robot that serves as a mech for the grays, which are physically weak.
So yeah, grays would be an awesome addition to the next codex. Beside, recent Bestiaries have gotten several extraterrestrial creatures lately, so, why not surf on that wave ^_^ ?
I echo the sentiments of my fellow reviewers when I ask to see a Monster Codex 2.
20 in total; 4 playable races, 10 monster races, 6 undead creatures.
Aasimar
Catfolk
Tiefling
Tengu
Centaur
Cyclops
Dryad & Fey Creatures
Ettin
Gargoyle
Giants (Hill & Stone)
Girallon
Morlock
Rakshasa
Treant
Skeleton
Mummy
Werewolf
Wight
Wraith
Zombie
Suli is a real cool playable race that could be added.
A Rival Codex could be awesome as well like the Rival Guide but with a few more low level teams and maybe sections for groups like; gangs, monks, zealots, tribes.
Wow, I never posted my Monster Codex 2 Wishlist. While waiting for more information about Bestiary 6, I will give it a try.
As this is a book about MONSTER options, I'm not including 0HD races. As far as I would love to see them in a codex, I believe a Races Codex (as I suggested last week) would be more appropriated to them. I'm also not choosing templates, as we can easily apply them to the existing characters in the NPC Codex. That said, I'm now presenting the list of 20 monsters I would like to see getting class levels.
Some of the remaining classic giants:
- Hill Giant
- Cloud Giant
- Stone Giant
- Storm Giant
Genies to fill the elemental planes:
- Djinni
- Efreeti
- Janni
- Marid
- Shaitan
Some of the classic mythical monsters
- Cyclops
- Centaur
- Harpy
- Medusa
- Minotaur
Some of the most interesting fey:
- Dryad
- Nymph
- Pixie
- Satyr
- Sprite
And some uncommon creatures as well
- Robot (Gearsman variations)
- Dragonkin
I will take this opportunity to say that Villain Codex, while useful, could have waited a year or two. The "Advanced NPC Codex" and the Monster Codex 2 were far more requested (and probably useful) products.
Some of the classic mythical monsters
- Cyclops
- Centaur
- Harpy
- Medusa
- Minotaur
Cyclops, centaurs and minotaurs have already been featured in the Inner Seas Monster Codex, so I doubt they'll be repirnt in a second codex :S
Cyclops, centaurs and minotaurs have already been featured in the Inner Seas Monster Codex, so I doubt they'll be repirnt in a second codex :SSome of the classic mythical monsters
- Cyclops
- Centaur
- Harpy
- Medusa
- Minotaur
While indeed they were, it was in the setting line. In the RPG line they would go to the PRD. And it's not like reprints never happened before. ;)
1. Give me ZOMBIES. I am not totally impressed with the B1 zombie or B2 juju zombie depictions. We can use a lot scarier art, more variety. Armored zombies, zombie townsfolk, zombie children, zombie wolves, zombie ogres, zombie dire bears, juju zombie ranger, and dare I say a zombie dragon? You see where I'm going with this, you can have lots of fun here. The zombie lord from B3 is cool art, but I could present a dead bride zombie lord *once* How about a zombie lord cleric or fighter? Also depict some of the evil witches/clerics/necromancers/liches that specialize in using zombie hordes.
2. Derro, definitely more can be done with these, the derro have never been fleshed out to their full potential
3. Hill giants-no brainer
4. Deep Ones and hybrids. We could use lots of variety art on the hybrids, make them so nasty I can smell Innsmouth at low tide just looking at them. Mix them with Dagon/Cthulhu cultists, maybe a few Marsh Giants
5. Rakshasa for sure this could be very promising
6. Harpy/Dire Corby/Dread Corby mash-up might be fun
7. Sinspawn, depicting all the variants instead of just 1 form
8. Mongrelfolk, with finally some depictions where one hand isn't a crab claw. What's up with that? Maybe some militant mongrelfolk that are pissed off at being called freaks and pushed around?
9. Mutants
10. Catfolk/Mummies/Morlocks/Charda/Gargolyes/Dragonkin/Kech/Oni/Cloakers/Gugs,
Get most of this list in there and I'll buy it!
Wow... time to raise this topic up... Maybe that'll nudge the devs to take a look and consider this book.
1) Changelings (I know that Blood of the Coven exist, but still)
- archetypes for witches, oracles and sorcerers
- coven-exclusive ideas
- new monster: either a male hagspawn or a new type of hag.
2) Hill Giants
- archetypes for barbarians and fighters
- items for chieftains
- new monster: Huge wolf
3) Stone Giants
- archetypes for rangers, druids and shamans
- stone-based spells
- new monster: cave bear
4) Merfolks
- archetypes for rangers, rogues and druids
- extra rules for underwater combats
- new monster: battlebred fishes
5) Catfolks
- archetypes for rogues, brawlers and wizards
- feline-based feats
- new monster: crossbred cat rules (like how to create a liger)
- note: highest-level character being a Cat Lord (Animal Lord template)
6) Leshys
- mix between vine leshys and other kinds
- archetypes for druids, shifters and rangers
- new monster: a new kind of leshy
7) Shaes
- archetypes for rogues, bards and swashbucklers
- shadow-based spells
- new monster: shadow-tempered beast
8) Tanukis
- archetypes for monks, bards and fighters
- alcohol items
- new monster: actual racoon dogs
9) Hags
- mix between kinds
- archetypes for witches, oracles and antipaladins
- witch/coven items
- new monster: either a male hagspawn or a new type of hag, again :P
10) Dark folks
- mix between kinds
- archetypes for rogues, fighters and magi
- underground items/rules
- new monster: brute-like dark folk
I guess that between the Encounter Codex vanishing and no other Codices announced, the line didn't sell strongly enough to warrant a follow-up.
What's not to love about premade creatures? The NPC Codex, the Monster Codex and the Villain Codex all offered characters ready to be added in any campaign, that's a huge help for GMs.
Yes, for GMs, probably less than half the gaming population. Not as much demand...