Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Hey,
First, I want to emphasise that this topic is absolutely not about the gameplay. My objective is not to talk about the integration of religion by gameplay, even though I would appreciate such a feature.
I just wanted some community feedback, about how would you imagine giving some flesh, some existence. I would love for example to know how the big guilds of PFO, are considering the religion aspect of things.
I always loved playing clerics with strong beliefs. And I think it would be a little sad, if a cleric type character was just like any other character.
Anyway, I just want to know what you all think about religion in PFO, and how you'd see it !
Goblin Squad Member
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I would love for example to know how the big guilds of PFO, are considering the religion aspect of things.
Roleplay is something Pax does and allows. That said it is not a central focus.
I expect people will be able to promote their own religions as they see fit. I don't expect to see temples for the Rough Beast, but otherwise I don't think we will have restrictions on who one can follow.
Now if there are mechanical benefits and hindrances to specific types of temples we might have a different story.
Hope that helps!
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Well actually, I wasn't necessarily thinking role play, which I love but in the context of a MMO, not so much.
But for example, I was thinking about "religious order", which would be a kind of mercenaries who wouldn't be motivated by money. Or political decisions made with religion in mind, like supporting a new settlement because of its political orientation, this kind of things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I too hope that a cleric and paladin's choice in diety will have some impact on their gameplay. My two characters won't have much to do with religion though Nadya may make passing tribute to Lady Luck (Desna).
As for the group I am in, the Keepers of the Circle have the Ring of Light which will certainly pull in paladins and clerics, so religion will play a role there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The UnNamed Company will not follow any specific deity as an official religion. It's members can worship in whatever fashion and to whomever they choose.
"Bluddwolf" can be described as either a pagan or a polytheist. Any deity with the domains of combat, thievery, greed, trickery, revenge and or lust will do. Mostly, Gorum, Callisrtia, Besmara, Norgorber and Rovagug.
Depending on his next activity, Bluddwolf may make some kind of tribute to one or several of those deities.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The UnNamed Company will not follow any specific deity as an official religion. It's members can worship in whatever fashion and to whomever they choose.
"Bluddwolf" can be described as either a pagan or a polytheist. Any deity with the domains of combat, thievery, greed, trickery, revenge and or lust will do. Mostly, Gorum, Callisrtia, Besmara, Norgorber and Rovagug.
Depending on his next activity, Bluddwolf may make some kind of tribute to one or several of those deities.
Anyway, I don't think that "Monotheism" is a regular thing, except for some of the must extreme divinitys. I think even a priest will pray is something variety of gods.
But outside of the RP aspect, do you think that you will be influenced in some way by region, in your way of playing ? I mean, obviously you will be a bandit/thief/killer, but for example, would you go out of your way for some religious reasons ? Would you spare a potential target, because she'd be let's say a priest of Callistra, or Besmara ?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Exactly. If you believe in one, it is kind of hard not to acknowledge all of them. Since each has a domain, their use is limited to that use. Praying to a CG god that signing a contract works in your benefit would not be a worthwhile use of time...even if that CG god is your usual benefactor in other aspects of your life.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I mean, obviously you will be a bandit/thief/killer, but for example, would you go out of your way for some religious reasons ? Would you spare a potential target, because she'd be let's say a priest of Callistra, or Besmara ?
"Bluddwolf's" only true devotions are to brotherhood and coin. No deity and certainly no priest will be placed before either.
Would a priest of Besmara be surprised that he is robbed and perhaps even killed by a devotee of Besmara? A foolish one, perhaps, but he should know what motivates his flock. Would not a cleric of Rovagug welcome chaos, destruction and death?
I would expect that the domains and sub domains of religions would be represented by both its priests and its devotees. If you worship a Deity of Thievery, Greed, Vengeance, Lust and War, you should probably expect that your praying in dangerous company.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I think that you don't see my point : I know that obviously, with chaotic gods, respect is a little more complicated, I was more interested to know if the faith of your character would be taken into account in a little more elaborated way than just PvP, which you will do anyway.
I just want to find some original ways to play the religious aspect of the universe.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I was looking at the description of Abadar.
Well, I think that maybe I will play a priest of this god. Since I intend to play a kind of cleric/aristocrat, I would find it very interesting to offer my service to help the most modests guilds to establish their first settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Couple of things that would be interesting:
*Religious orders traditionally have hierarchies. It would be interesting to see those played out. The politics and all that.
*A little weird and scary, in some cases, but adherence/performance of religious rituals, festivals and holidays for the RP.
*Expansion of the various faiths (from the core rules) with dress, behavior, roles and rituals. Just what/how would any order really fit into the River Kingdoms? What would they normally DO to fulfill their religious stations everyday.
Is that more along the lines of what you mean Audoucet, or am I way off the mark?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Yes, that was more what I was talking about. I'm interested in finding some ways to encourage a maximum of players to take religion into consideration without just asking them to actively "roleplay".
It can be some minor things. I used to play EvE in Providence for example, where the local authorities were aligned with the Amarr church, about exotic dancers, this kind of things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One thing I've always thought Everquest did well was having the various class trainers in appropriate settings. Warrior trainer is in the arena, Necro trainer is in hidden sewer tunnels, cleric trainer is in a temple, etc, etc. Good and Evil clerics even had different trainers in the appropriately styled areas.
A lot of games now just have one trainer for all classes or they place various trainers all in the same room. It's a little thing but it made a big difference when it came to immersion.
I doubt many settlements will be able to support having multiple cleric trainers but I'm hoping that not all "training halls" will be identical.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that you don't see my point : I know that obviously, with chaotic gods, respect is a little more complicated, I was more interested to know if the faith of your character would be taken into account in a little more elaborated way than just PvP, which you will do anyway.
I just want to find some original ways to play the religious aspect of the universe.
Bluddwolf's faith (as chaotic as it may seem) is that all men, especially those in power, are corrupt or corruptible. Few things corrupt more than coin. So it is to the coin that he rests his faith in. Coin is gained through the threat or use of the blade. It will be upon pain of blood should anyone interfere with our goals.
As an expression of faith the members of the UnNamed Company, myself in particular, carry with us a symbol of our faith. Each carries a bloody coin, notched by a dagger. Before any raid, this coin is dedicated to the Deity that best fits what is most needed for the raid. If the raid is against a feud target, it is dedicate to Gorum. If the action is an act if vengeance, Callistria. If the raid is on or near a body of water or river, Besmara. If it is an action meant for slaughter, then either Norgorber or Rovagug.
This coin is also given as a sign of our pledge to carry out a deal or contract. It literally means, "We swear on this coin, that our blades are your's, on pain of blood."
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that you don't see my point : I know that obviously, with chaotic gods, respect is a little more complicated, I was more interested to know if the faith of your character would be taken into account in a little more elaborated way than just PvP, which you will do anyway.
I just want to find some original ways to play the religious aspect of the universe.
Bluddwolf's faith (as chaotic as it may seem) is that all men, especially those in power, are corrupt or corruptible. Few things corrupt more than coin. So it is to the coin that he rests his faith in. Coin is gained through the threat or use of the blade. It will be upon pain of blood should anyone interfere with our goals.
As an expression of faith the members of the UnNamed Company, myself in particular, carry with us a symbol of our faith. Each carries a bloody coin, notched by a dagger. Before any raid, this coin is dedicated to the Deity that best fits what is most needed for the raid. If the raid is against a feud target, it is dedicate to Gorum. If the action is an act if vengeance, Callistria. If the raid is on or near a body of water or river, Besmara. If it is an action meant for slaughter, then either Norgorber or Rovagug.
This coin is also given as a sign of our pledge to carry out a deal or contract. It literally means, "We swear on this coin, that our blades are your's, on pain of blood."
You actually have a code there that isn't half bad Bluddwolf. A little RP behind what you do makes the UNC seem more meaningful. At least to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps we have different definitions of "roleplay". To me, doing things like picking combat targets based on religion, or wearing a specific outfit to represent your caste within a church, is roleplaying, even if you don't talk in-character and do traditional roleplaying stuff like that.
That nitpick aside, I like the idea of playing a priest in the clergy of some god. Not sure which god specifically as of yet, though I think Erastil would be an enjoyable one for my tastes. He's all about the small and tight-knit communities on the edges of society, making sure that the wilds don't infringe upon his "flock", helping with harvests, and doing other things to help the little people get along in the very harsh world of Golarion. Though he looks like a beastial character, he's actually a very nurturing and patriarchal figure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf's faith (as chaotic as it may seem) is that all men, especially those in power, are corrupt or corruptible. Few things corrupt more than coin. So it is to the coin that he rests his faith in. Coin is gained through the threat or use of the blade. It will be upon pain of blood should anyone interfere with our goals.
As an expression of faith the members of the UnNamed Company, myself in particular, carry with us a symbol of our faith. Each carries a bloody coin, notched by a dagger. Before any raid, this coin is dedicated to the Deity that best fits what is most needed for the raid. If the raid is against a feud target, it is dedicate to Gorum. If the action is an act if vengeance, Callistria. If the raid is on or near a body of water or river, Besmara. If it is an action meant for slaughter, then either Norgorber or Rovagug.
This coin is also given as a sign of our pledge to carry out a deal or contract. It literally means, "We swear on this coin, that our blades are your's, on pain of blood."
Sometimes...I am sad our goals do not align better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sometimes...I am sad our goals do not align better.Bluddwolf's faith (as chaotic as it may seem) is that all men, especially those in power, are corrupt or corruptible. Few things corrupt more than coin. So it is to the coin that he rests his faith in. Coin is gained through the threat or use of the blade. It will be upon pain of blood should anyone interfere with our goals.
As an expression of faith the members of the UnNamed Company, myself in particular, carry with us a symbol of our faith. Each carries a bloody coin, notched by a dagger. Before any raid, this coin is dedicated to the Deity that best fits what is most needed for the raid. If the raid is against a feud target, it is dedicate to Gorum. If the action is an act if vengeance, Callistria. If the raid is on or near a body of water or river, Besmara. If it is an action meant for slaughter, then either Norgorber or Rovagug.
This coin is also given as a sign of our pledge to carry out a deal or contract. It literally means, "We swear on this coin, that our blades are your's, on pain of blood."
Perhaps it is too soon to tell?
The forums are not the game, and the game is not us as people behind the character. I look at PFO as an adventure that I will spend a decade in (much like EvE). My character will go through many phases, or changes, and I suspect relationships will be dynamic and evolutionary.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Perhaps we have different definitions of "roleplay". To me, doing things like picking combat targets based on religion, or wearing a specific outfit to represent your caste within a church, is roleplaying, even if you don't talk in-character and do traditional roleplaying stuff like that.
I totally agree with you. As long as there is actually some "picking", and not just doing what you would have done anyway. This is where I disagree a little with Bluddwolf : If I was a bandit, I wouldn't knowingly attack a priest of the god of banditry, except for a contract with an other priest of the same god, or if the priest is a declared enemy of mine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a church dedicated to a God of Thieves, they pass around the collections plate. What would you expect to find in the plate when it returns to the Priest?
The same Priest concludes the evening mass, and he begins his walk home. While passing through a dark alley, he gets mugged. He is beaten, stripped of his holy symbol and even a gold tooth is pulled from his mouth. As the muggers walk away, what does the Priest say?
In a church dedicated to a God of Thieves, they pass around the collections plate. What would you expect to find in the plate when it returns to the Priest?
Nothing.
Including the plate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can be mistaken about the specific context of Golarion, but in most fantasy context, even the most chaotic evil characters are supposed to at least show a certain degree of respect/submission, to the priests of their tutelar divinity.
I think it is likely that a Priest of a God of Thieves either is or was once a thief as well. He too was or still is driven by greed. He is devoted to a God that favors greed. His flock is a pack of greedy thieves.
If his expectations are that he would be respected and submitted to, he is a fool. He will preach greed, and not trust a soul in his congregation.
No one answered my other question:
"The same Priest concludes the evening mass, and he begins his walk home. While passing through a dark alley, he gets mugged. He is beaten, stripped of his holy symbol and even a gold tooth is pulled from his mouth. As the muggers walk away, what does the Priest say?"
The answer is: May God bless you... you filthy, bastard, thieves!
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a church dedicated to a God of Thieves, they pass around the collections plate. What would you expect to find in the plate when it returns to the Priest?Nothing.
Including the plate.
Yet, somehow, when the worshippers come home, their purses are lighter.
"God's hand has light fingers"|
Goblin Squad Member
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I can be mistaken about the specific context of Golarion, but in most fantasy context, even the most chaotic evil characters are supposed to at least show a certain degree of respect/submission, to the priests of their tutelar divinity.I think it is likely that a Priest of a God of Thieves either is or was once a thief as well. He too was or still is driven by greed. He is devoted to a God that favors greed. His flock is a pack of greedy thieves.
If his expectations are that he would be respected and submitted to, he is a fool. He will preach greed, and not trust a soul in his congregation.
No one answered my other question:
"The same Priest concludes the evening mass, and he begins his walk home. While passing through a dark alley, he gets mugged. He is beaten, stripped of his holy symbol and even a gold tooth is pulled from his mouth. As the muggers walk away, what does the Priest say?"
The answer is: May God bless you... you filthy, bastard, thieves!
Just because he is a priest of the God of Thieves doesn't mean he or his god like to be stolen from. "Feel free to steal from others but steal from me and feel my god's wrath."
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Goblin Squad Member
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No one answered my other question:
"The same Priest concludes the evening mass, and he begins his walk home. While passing through a dark alley, he gets mugged. He is beaten, stripped of his holy symbol and even a gold tooth is pulled from his mouth. As the muggers walk away, what does the Priest say?"
The answer is: May God bless you... you filthy, bastard, thieves!
Are you equating thieves with robbers? 'Proper' thievery (pickpocketing, burglary or just snatch-and-run) and conning is much more sustainable than eating the hand that feeds you.
Though I agree it is hard to steal a gold tooth without resorting to violence. And if the god is Norgorber, you are right. That priest would likely berate himself for not taking precautions.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I think it is likely that a Priest of a God of Thieves either is or was once a thief as well. He too was or still is driven by greed. He is devoted to a God that favors greed. His flock is a pack of greedy thieves.
If his expectations are that he would be respected and submitted to, he is a fool. He will preach greed, and not trust a soul in his congregation.
No one answered my other question:
"The same Priest concludes the evening mass, and he begins his walk home. While passing through a dark alley, he gets mugged. He is beaten, stripped of his holy symbol and even a gold tooth is pulled from his mouth. As the muggers walk away, what does the Priest say?"
The answer is: May God bless you... you filthy, bastard, thieves!
I didn't answer your question, because it doesn't make any sense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"I do not casually speak of God: that noun has come to have far too much baggage to comfortably say in conversation, at least not if the expectation is to be understood. Too many people get too many different images in their heads when they hear it. I have my concept I use when I say it, you probably have a different concept in your head when you hear it. That means the human word itself is an inadequate vessel to carry clear meaning for such a subject. Recognizing this, after many years of conversation, I do not commonly use it in public." ~excerpt from Modulus, by RTRomero, 2013
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can be mistaken about the specific context of Golarion, but in most fantasy context, even the most chaotic evil characters are supposed to at least show a certain degree of respect/submission, to the priests of their tutelar divinity.
I guess it would be a question of how it benefits me in the game, for many players. Do I get extra xp or some kind of reputation bonus if I do not attack someone of my religion? Or come to the aid of someone of my religion or allied religion? And how would I know the religion of someone I'm attacking or helping out? Do I get extra xp or gold or reputation if I attack someone of a god who my god opposes? Is there going to be some kind of in-game notice to let you know?
As a paladin, do I get some sort of bonus for doing "good deeds"? Or will lack of "good deeds" threaten my paladinhood?
Can quests or missions be available only to those who have shown proper faith or actions in their religion? Little hidden missions kind of thing.
Gods have favored weapons. Could some sort of special training or bonus in these favored weapons be available only to the faithful?
Any of these things could help bring about greater interest in religion and which god you might pick as your patron.
now for something completely different: In a world of magic where you have spells that can turn stone to mud, climb walls, jump over walls, pass through walls, tunneling, fly and other such things, just how important are walls around a city anyways? Compared to their actual value in medieval times where magic didn't exist.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm very much hoping faith and deity affiliation are in the game in meaningful ways. Our company (Peace Through Vigilance) is a militant LG order named for the celestial demigod dragon of the same name. I'm pretty sure the Devs have said that they will have a limited palette of gods to choose from early in the game, so we will likely worship PTV through the mechanic of worshiping Iomedae.
We're going to have a religious hierarchy of order, and I would love to see cosmetics in the game that reflect the gods, have it affect NPC interactions, etc. Very much like the idea of choosing a god having stakes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Priests are (demi-)human too, they are not single-minded fanatics who would accept being stolen from in their own church just because Thievery is the domain of their deity, much like the priest of a God of War would not be happy or pleased about a band of soldiers sacking his/her church. And even churches to the God of Thieves need support from their flock to function. The whole point of a church is to build a community around a common set of beliefs and help each other, not attack or steal from each other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Priests are (demi-)human too, they are not single-minded fanatics who would accept being stolen from in their own church just because Thievery is the domain of their deity, much like the priest of a God of War would not be happy or pleased about a band of soldiers sacking his/her church. And even churches to the God of Thieves need support from their flock to function. The whole point of a church is to build a community around a common set of beliefs and help each other, not attack or steal from each other.
I would see it as being the one place you wouldn't steal from. Also, the church could act as your fence for your stolen goods. You never want to get your fence mad at you. He could cut you off and blacklist you with all the other fences.