Walter’s Guide to Deific Obediences


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Hey everybody! Been a while since I've done anything for the Pathfinder community, so I figured I'd post up a new guide.

Inner Sea Gods just came out and boy is it exciting! Not only is it gorgeous and full of fine reading material, it also continues the obedience-style feats with a new one called Deific Obedience. With this one feat, three new prestige classes, and twenty major gods to pick from, you wind up with a huge amount of character options.

This guide tries to synthesize and present all those options in a single, easy to navigate format. As with my last guide, I look forward to reading any feedback and build ideas you might have, so feel free to post them below.

I hope you enjoy my Guide to Deific Obediences.


Nicely done, Walter. One thing I do want to mention: the Evangelist's class-feature-progression ability is not full-progression. You add every Evangelist level after the first to your level in another class.

-Matt

Scarab Sages

Dot. Looks nice. I don't have the book yet, but this is giving me some ideas. Not sure if Evangelist or Sentinel is going to be a better class for a Warpriest, Monk, or other class that has both Martial and Class abilites to move into.

Liberty's Edge

Nice.

You mentioned under Lamshtu's Obedience that it might be problematic to do regularly, but that the obedience isn't that useful anyway. The problem with that, however, is that all of the prestige classes require that the Obedience be performed daily to maintain the PrC abilities. I believe the intent is also that the Obediences must be done daily to gain the use of the boons for that day. That can make some of the more disruptive or disconcerting ones a tad more onerous.


The list of summons at the end doesn't have one for Gorum. Does he not get one?

I was also curious what the obediences actually are. You mention a few but I can't afford the book right now and would really like to know.

Scarab Sages

Fomsie wrote:

Nice.

You mentioned under Lamshtu's Obedience that it might be problematic to do regularly, but that the obedience isn't that useful anyway. The problem with that, however, is that all of the prestige classes require that the Obedience be performed daily to maintain the PrC abilities. I believe the intent is also that the Obediences must be done daily to gain the use of the boons for that day. That can make some of the more disruptive or disconcerting ones a tad more onerous.

That is certainly the case for Celestial Obediences and the Mystery Cultist. I play a follower of Falayna, and I have had a period where I lost abilities because of the the loss of my training dummy.

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@ Mattastrophic: Thanks for reminding me, added a clarification under Evangelist.

@ Fomsie: Good point, added a paragraph that mentions that at the start of the PRC section.

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Larkos wrote:

The list of summons at the end doesn't have one for Gorum. Does he not get one?

I was also curious what the obediences actually are. You mention a few but I can't afford the book right now and would really like to know.

Not all of the gods grant summons, and Gorum is among them.

I don't want to post word-for-word Paizo copy-written content in the guide, but if there are a couple you'd like to know about I'd be happy to elaborate on them here.

Liberty's Edge

Uh...I don't have Inner Sea Gods yet, but from the product thread...can't you just meditate on those who've wronged you for Calistria's Obedience, making the NC-17 stuff optional?

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Uh...I don't have Inner Sea Gods yet, but from the product thread...can't you just meditate on those who've wronged you for Calistria's Obedience, making the NC-17 stuff optional?

Oh, has there been an update? Could I trouble you for a link?


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's been nothing official, but is Calistria one of the gods that offers an alternative ritual if the first option is unavailable? A lot of people have suggested that as the one and only obedience if the first one is too uncomfortable for a group.

There were many similar in Chronicles of the Righteous, but I don't believe that received an official response either.


WalterGM wrote:
Larkos wrote:

The list of summons at the end doesn't have one for Gorum. Does he not get one?

I was also curious what the obediences actually are. You mention a few but I can't afford the book right now and would really like to know.

Not all of the gods grant summons, and Gorum is among them.

I don't want to post word-for-word Paizo copy-written content in the guide, but if there are a couple you'd like to know about I'd be happy to elaborate on them here.

Fair enough. I just had a very religious barbarian character that didn't get to really show that side of him. I was considering reusing him with that class someday. Hence, I was interested in the stuff surrounding Gorum most.

Liberty's Edge

WalterGM wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Uh...I don't have Inner Sea Gods yet, but from the product thread...can't you just meditate on those who've wronged you for Calistria's Obedience, making the NC-17 stuff optional?
Oh, has there been an update? Could I trouble you for a link?

Link.

The relevant bit is:

John Kretzer wrote:

Or wrap yourself in yellow silk and lay down mediating on Calistria's teaching and fantasizing about vengeance on somebody that wronged you.

All obedience have two ways to resolve them.

that sounds like a non-NC-17 option.


Dot.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
WalterGM wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Uh...I don't have Inner Sea Gods yet, but from the product thread...can't you just meditate on those who've wronged you for Calistria's Obedience, making the NC-17 stuff optional?
Oh, has there been an update? Could I trouble you for a link?

Link.

The relevant bit is:

John Kretzer wrote:

Or wrap yourself in yellow silk and lay down mediating on Calistria's teaching and fantasizing about vengeance on somebody that wronged you.

All obedience have two ways to resolve them.

that sounds like a non-NC-17 option.

Ahh, well here's the exact text.

Quote:
Engage in sexual activity with another individual in exchange for money, information, or another valuable resource. This must be a willing act on both your parts; you should not endanger yourself or otherwise enter a situation that makes you uncomfortable. Pray aloud to Calistria before and after the act, and encourage your partner to do the same. If no suitable partner is available, wrap yourself in yellow silk and hold your holy symbol against your chest. Meditate on the teachings of Calistria and fantasize about taking vengeance against one who wronged you.

I read that as "do the first thing; if the first thing is impossible to do, then do the second." Not, "do whichever you like."

But I'm sure a GM would be willing to be flexible one way or the other.

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@ Larkos: Here's the obedience for Gorum.

Quote:
Dress yourself in the heaviest set of metal armor you own. Shout your oath of loyalty to Gorum at the top of your lungs, punctuating each pause for breath by smashing your weapon against a shield or against your armor-clad body. After your oath is done, kneel on one knee with your weapon resting against your shoulder. Recite your victories in battle in a sonorous voice until the time for your obedience is done. If you should be attacked while conducting your obedience, slay the creature who dared test your might. (You may be assisted by allies, but you must strike the killing blow.)

Liberty's Edge

WalterGM wrote:

Ahh, well here's the exact text.

Quote:
Engage in sexual activity with another individual in exchange for money, information, or another valuable resource. This must be a willing act on both your parts; you should not endanger yourself or otherwise enter a situation that makes you uncomfortable. Pray aloud to Calistria before and after the act, and encourage your partner to do the same. If no suitable partner is available, wrap yourself in yellow silk and hold your holy symbol against your chest. Meditate on the teachings of Calistria and fantasize about taking vengeance against one who wronged you.

I read that as "do the first thing; if the first thing is impossible to do, then do the second." Not, "do whichever you like."

But I'm sure a GM would be willing to be flexible one way or the other.

Actually..."no suitable partner" combined with the earlier "This must be a willing act on both your parts" seems to indicate that if there's nobody you want to sleep with around (or nobody willing to pay you for sex) the second option kicks in. That's pretty simple to work around just by being picky, actually.

Heck, a completely celibate person with no interest in sex could still do that Obedience fine. As could someone monogamous. Since in either case...there are definitionally no suitable partners around (or, potentially, in the monogamy case, that relationship gets weird quick).


Damn I want to make a Zen Archer/Evangelist of Erastil.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
Damn I want to make a Zen Archer/Evangelist of Erastil.

I'm not sure on the wording, but would you add your Wisdom twice to hit? That would seem waay too good.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
WalterGM wrote:

Ahh, well here's the exact text.

Quote:
Engage in sexual activity with another individual in exchange for money, information, or another valuable resource. This must be a willing act on both your parts; you should not endanger yourself or otherwise enter a situation that makes you uncomfortable. Pray aloud to Calistria before and after the act, and encourage your partner to do the same. If no suitable partner is available, wrap yourself in yellow silk and hold your holy symbol against your chest. Meditate on the teachings of Calistria and fantasize about taking vengeance against one who wronged you.

I read that as "do the first thing; if the first thing is impossible to do, then do the second." Not, "do whichever you like."

But I'm sure a GM would be willing to be flexible one way or the other.

Actually..."no suitable partner" combined with the earlier "This must be a willing act on both your parts" seems to indicate that if there's nobody you want to sleep with around (or nobody willing to pay you for sex) the second option kicks in. That's pretty simple to work around just by being picky, actually.

Heck, a completely celibate person with no interest in sex could still do that Obedience fine. As could someone monogamous. Since in either case...there are definitionally no suitable partners around (or, potentially, in the monogamy case, that relationship gets weird quick).

For the first part, that sounds like it would fly.

I just can't see a celibate PC or one with no interest in sex worshipping Calistra though, that just doesn't seem right.

Liberty's Edge

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WalterGM wrote:

For the first part, that sounds like it would fly.

I just can't see a celibate PC or one with no interest in sex worshipping Calistra though, that just doesn't seem right.

I have two words for you: Inigo Montoya.

I still want to play an Inquisitor of Calistria based on him who has warped his entire life around a quest for vengeance...

I'd probably play them as promiscuous as well, but a celibate version seems entirely possible.


WalterGM wrote:

@ Larkos: Here's the obedience for Gorum.

Quote:
Dress yourself in the heaviest set of metal armor you own. Shout your oath of loyalty to Gorum at the top of your lungs, punctuating each pause for breath by smashing your weapon against a shield or against your armor-clad body. After your oath is done, kneel on one knee with your weapon resting against your shoulder. Recite your victories in battle in a sonorous voice until the time for your obedience is done. If you should be attacked while conducting your obedience, slay the creature who dared test your might. (You may be assisted by allies, but you must strike the killing blow.)

Thanks :)


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally, I would be fine letting my player play a promiscuous worshipper of Calistria and avoid the sex part of the obedience.

Or hell, let them imply their sexual acts within a set time frame without being explicit about anything. Part of their morning ritual if their in a town/city. No need to start rolling prostitution checks.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
WalterGM wrote:

For the first part, that sounds like it would fly.

I just can't see a celibate PC or one with no interest in sex worshipping Calistra though, that just doesn't seem right.

I have two words for you: Inigo Montoya.

I still want to play an Inquisitor of Calistria based on him who has warped his entire life around a quest for vengeance...

I'd probably play them as promiscuous as well, but a celibate version seems entirely possible.

I like it!

You could even spin it as part of your self-decided penance until you get your revenge is that you're remaining celibate.

The best part about these obediences is that for just one feat, you can add such a huge amount of depth to your character. I really like this book.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do the rules support (or strictly disallow) using Deific Obedience on deities that are also Empyreal Lords/Demon lords? Someone had mentioned that Empyreal Lords were listed under deities somewhere in the book and, seeing how they do have obedience boons listed, it seems somewhat plausible. I don't have the book, so I'm not sure if it explicity disallows this or if it would break when using a deity without the exalted, evangelist, and sentinel boons.

AKA Mystery Cultist is bland and I'd much rather use one of these three. RAW, is that possible?

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Xethik wrote:

Do the rules support (or strictly disallow) using Deific Obedience on deities that are also Empyreal Lords/Demon lords? Someone had mentioned that Empyreal Lords were listed under deities somewhere in the book and, seeing how they do have obedience boons listed, it seems somewhat plausible. I don't have the book, so I'm not sure if it explicity disallows this or if it would break when using a deity without the exalted, evangelist, and sentinel boons.

AKA Mystery Cultist is bland and I'd much rather use one of these three. RAW, is that possible?

RAW it is not possible. The options for exalted, evangelist, and sentinel currently only exist for the 20 core deities listed.


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WalterGM wrote:
Xethik wrote:

Do the rules support (or strictly disallow) using Deific Obedience on deities that are also Empyreal Lords/Demon lords? Someone had mentioned that Empyreal Lords were listed under deities somewhere in the book and, seeing how they do have obedience boons listed, it seems somewhat plausible. I don't have the book, so I'm not sure if it explicity disallows this or if it would break when using a deity without the exalted, evangelist, and sentinel boons.

AKA Mystery Cultist is bland and I'd much rather use one of these three. RAW, is that possible?

RAW it is not possible. The options for exalted, evangelist, and sentinel currently only exist for the 20 core deities listed.

That's upsetting. I guess I'll leave celestial boons aside for campaigns when I plan on hitting level 20.


To chime in on this Calistria issue, I have a character going who privately draws strength from her faith in Calistria, and adheres strongly to her personal freedom and vengeance aspects, but really has no interest in the whole bit about selling ones' own body. Plus, she's in a setting where a lady's maidenhood can turn an empire.

There's no way she'd do the first, but the latter is perfect for this character, as she probably does that already.

What does the obedience mean for her? How about in a PFS setting?

-Matt

Scarab Sages

Well, Inner Sea Gods is on Additional Resources now, so it's PFS Legal. However, no early entry for the Evangelist.

Quote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods

Equipment: all equipment and magic items on pages 250–271 are legal except father’s forgehammer, gray gambler’s hat, and preklikin’s book of cults; Feats: all feats on pages 204–217 are legal; Gods: all of the gods listed in the appendix are legal choices except daemon harbingers, great old ones, infernal dukes, malebranche, nascent demon lords, orc deities, outer gods, qlippoth lords, and whore queens; Misc.: all material in chapter 1 is legal except pages 92–99; Prestige classes: the evangelist, exalted, and sentinel prestige classes are legal for play. The evangelist prestige class may not be taken as an option until 6th level; Spells: all spells on pages 228–245 are legal except ghoul hunger, spawn calling, and transplant visage. All variant spellcasting on pages 19–171 are legal except page 99; Subdomains: all subdomains on pages 224–227 are legal except arson; Traits: all traits on pages 218–223 are legal.

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@ Mattastrophic: I think that's a great question for the PFS forums.

Personally, my take on it would be that as long as you can explain it to me and still follow the beliefs of your god(dess) while fulflilling the requirements of your obedience, it's all good.

My hope is that these feats and the ones from Chronicles of the Righteous are used by players and GMs to create a richer story together than anything else. Yes, there are some straightforward mechanical benefits to a few of these boons, but by and large they are just great for roleplaying.


Is it bad that my primary take away from this "Oh wow they finally pulled the trigger on actually good PRCs." and not "Oh wow, those are some amazing benefits for the low low cost of a feat."?

If I understand Evangelist correctly... I think almost all my character from now on are going to be Evangelists. Because seriously... why the hell *not*? Well... other then certain favored class bonuses.

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Anzyr wrote:

Is it bad that my primary take away from this "Oh wow they finally pulled the trigger on actually good PRCs." and not "Oh wow, those are some amazing benefits for the low low cost of a feat."?

If I understand Evangelist correctly... I think almost all my character from now on are going to be Evangelists. Because seriously... why the hell *not*? Well... other then certain favored class bonuses.

Yeah, there's some great stuff in here.

One thing to keep in mind is that while the evangelist is great, they only start progressing another class at level 2. So this means they're always "one level behind" what a straight progression base class would be. Like you miss out on a level of spells, a level of sneak attack, etc. There's also their d8 HD, 3/4 BAB progression, and skills to keep in mind. So while I do see lots of people picking up evangelist, I don't know how prevalent it will become.

But you do wind up with tons of abilities at the end of it.

Silver Crusade

Anzyr wrote:

Is it bad that my primary take away from this "Oh wow they finally pulled the trigger on actually good PRCs." and not "Oh wow, those are some amazing benefits for the low low cost of a feat."?

If I understand Evangelist correctly... I think almost all my character from now on are going to be Evangelists. Because seriously... why the hell *not*? Well... other then certain favored class bonuses.

There are some definite drawbacks to all the prestige classes. They're all good options but I don't think that they're "must take" options.

Evangelist loses a levels worth of class abilities. That is pretty significant with a lot of builds. The others lose class abilities.

And the main advantage (early access to the boons) often becomes less significant as you go up. A level 3 SLA at level 8 is nice but hardly game breaking. By level 11 (when the second boon kicks in) the first set of boons will often not be worth the action to cast them.

Not to mention the fact that they're so tied to gods will hopefully stop people from taking them for PURELY mechanical reasons.

Shadow Lodge

I gotta chime in here, your guide is wrong on Calistria's tier 3 Exalted boon, its not Cha instead of Dex, it is in addition to, but lost at the same time.


Sentinel is an awesome prestige class. I'm wondering now if it works better with full ten levels of 2 handed fighter or barbarian. Or maybe a mix of both. I wonder which takes precedence in that sort of thing. Maybe seven levels of two handed fighter, three levels of barbarian? Maybe four levels of 2 handed fighter or weapon master, then six levels of barbarian so you can get spell sunder? Hmmm, damn this is a tough one to decide. I think 4 levels of weapon master and 6 levels of barbarian might be the best bet.
You can get several rage powers that are necessary (superstition, witch hunter, spell sunder) and then weapon master or two handed fighter. I'm torn between the two honestly. I think weapon master 4/barbarian 6/sentinel 10 might be the best way to go. Weapon training, dueling gloves so you get +2 to attack and damage. For feats you go the Improved Sunder/Destroyer's Blessing/Deific Obedience/Power Attack, etc. And you can still get all the weapon focus/weapon specialization feats because fighter and sentinel levels stack for the purpose of feats.
This might be pretty damn good after all.


pauljathome wrote:
Anzyr wrote:

Is it bad that my primary take away from this "Oh wow they finally pulled the trigger on actually good PRCs." and not "Oh wow, those are some amazing benefits for the low low cost of a feat."?

If I understand Evangelist correctly... I think almost all my character from now on are going to be Evangelists. Because seriously... why the hell *not*? Well... other then certain favored class bonuses.

There are some definite drawbacks to all the prestige classes. They're all good options but I don't think that they're "must take" options.

Evangelist loses a levels worth of class abilities. That is pretty significant with a lot of builds. The others lose class abilities.

And the main advantage (early access to the boons) often becomes less significant as you go up. A level 3 SLA at level 8 is nice but hardly game breaking. By level 11 (when the second boon kicks in) the first set of boons will often not be worth the action to cast them.

Not to mention the fact that they're so tied to gods will hopefully stop people from taking them for PURELY mechanical reasons.

True, but Exalted gives full spellcasting which would be fantastic on say Oracles, since most mysteries have like 2-3 good revelations, after which you can now just stop taking levels in it and get sweet abilities instead. (Like a DOMAIN!)


This is very true.
Plus, Oracles are charisma based so they can still get the eldritch heritage based feats and continue with their spontaneous spellcasting.


WalterGM wrote:

@ Larkos: Here's the obedience for Gorum.

Quote:
Dress yourself in the heaviest set of metal armor you own. Shout your oath of loyalty to Gorum at the top of your lungs, punctuating each pause for breath by smashing your weapon against a shield or against your armor-clad body. After your oath is done, kneel on one knee with your weapon resting against your shoulder. Recite your victories in battle in a sonorous voice until the time for your obedience is done. If you should be attacked while conducting your obedience, slay the creature who dared test your might. (You may be assisted by allies, but you must strike the killing blow.)

When the heaviest armour my barbarian owns is a loincloth and studded leather baldric, I'm going to substitute my oath of loyalty to Gorum for roaring Crom and Steel instead.

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Dylos wrote:
I gotta chime in here, your guide is wrong on Calistria's tier 3 Exalted boon, its not Cha instead of Dex, it is in addition to, but lost at the same time.

Thanks! Corrected it.

I also modified the main text for the obedience to incorporate the other possibility for completion, based off the feedback others gave.

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Imbicatus wrote:
Dot. Looks nice. I don't have the book yet, but this is giving me some ideas. Not sure if Evangelist or Sentinel is going to be a better class for a Warpriest, Monk, or other class that has both Martial and Class abilites to move into.

Evangelist is very nice for monks and warpriests, as Aligned class allows them to use flurry and sacred weapon to overcome the Evangelist's 3/4 bab.

Xethik wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Damn I want to make a Zen Archer/Evangelist of Erastil.
I'm not sure on the wording, but would you add your Wisdom twice to hit? That would seem waay too good.

I'd like to point out that the Zen Archer's Zen Archery says you may add wisdom bonus to attack rolls, so if your GM rules that Zen Archery's wisdom to hit and Erastil's Wisdom to hit does not stack, switch to dexterity for Zen Archer and enjoy DEX+WIS to hit.

Other then that, consider a Warpriest of Erastil, then, when you got the wisdom to attack/damage boon, you would be doing 1d10 damage with the bow, with +12/+7/+2 BAB.


Bumping to review later.


WalterGM wrote:


For the first part, that sounds like it would fly.

I just can't see a celibate PC or one with no interest in sex worshipping Calistra though, that just doesn't seem right.

Sex isn't Calistria's whole portfolio.

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Zhayne wrote:
WalterGM wrote:


For the first part, that sounds like it would fly.

I just can't see a celibate PC or one with no interest in sex worshipping Calistra though, that just doesn't seem right.

Sex isn't Calistria's whole portfolio.

I already covered that, actually. :)


Your guide seems to have mixed up Nethys' Tier 2 and 3 Evangelist and Exalted abilities, listing the Evangelist boons as Exalted ones and vice versa.

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@ Zhayne: Deadmanwalking's right; I've updated the guide I wrote as such

@ Gluttony: Good catch! Fixed and thank you.


Another one: Rovagug's Tier 3 Exalted boon summons a pair of Nyogoth Qlippoth, whereas the guide implies that it only summons one of them.

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Added to the Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

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Gluttony wrote:
Another one: Rovagug's Tier 3 Exalted boon summons a pair of Nyogoth Qlippoth, whereas the guide implies that it only summons one of them.

Oh, that's gross. Updated.


Wait, Exalted gets spells in a domain as an SLA if it can cast spells of that level and no language saying it still requires the components? Did Paizo forget Miracle is in 3 domains?

What other domains give spells with really expensive material components?


deuxhero wrote:

Wait, Exalted gets spells in a domain as an SLA if it can cast spells of that level and no language saying it still requires the components? Did Paizo forget Miracle is in 3 domains?

What other domains give spells with really expensive material components?

Glory has Gate at 9th level.

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