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More likely what's going to happen is the Lich is going to hit the fighter with a Quickened Bungle or Ill Omen spell followed by a paralyzing touch attack to turn the fighter into a permanent meat statue and then stand. Follow that up with a command to the air elementals to go whirlwind at ground level and pick up the rest of the party and fling them around inside the concealment of the debris it's swinging around.
Then it will finish it's turn by letting the other lich know about you guys invading their area (if you have telepathy running why shouldn't it?)
That should effectively drop all 4 of you from combat effectiveness and if any of you actually manage to avoid all 3 whirlwinds then they'll need to take on a lich solo so yeah. Good luck.
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with your current groups complete lack of spellcasting (arcane or divine) vs a prepared arcane lich with three huge elemental servants you have about a 95% chance of being completely trounced inside of the next 2-3 rounds.
Without a good idea of what gear, abilities and consumables you all have available the only possible option we could come up with is to surrender and throw yourself on the lich's mercy and hope for a way to escape later if it doesn't kill you immediately.
Lack of magic and being effectively outnumbered is a huge hurdle to overcome and the classes you have available are the exact opposite of what would make success possible.
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Spellcraft is not need to cast a from a scroll that is not on your spell list. UMD is.
With that said the Lich will like take an AoO by crawling away from the fighter. That will allow him to cast his spell without provoking.
He may also use Mathwei's idea. If so, you better hope that fighter rolls well, or your party is in trouble because that lich may summon more monsters before deciding to sit in the background and throw SoD or SoS spells at you.
IIRC elementals are immune to crits and sneak attack so have the ninja and rogue go help the fighter kill the lich.
PS: Lich have phylacteries so killing him will only make up very upset, and he will be back in 1d10 days, and he might bring his lich buddy.
PS2: Some combat maneuvers can be done with an AoO. Sunder works, so if he has a holy symbol or spell component pouch try to sunder that.
The lack of a spellcaster is also not helping. Be prepared to retreat,IF possible.
If the Lich doesnt teleport away or paralize you, you can attempt to ready-action your attack and try to fizzle his spells with the damage.
Remove his jaw and both his hands. What spellcasting?
Would a Lich really need his jaw to speak? I mean, he's already pulling some Sir Fortesque stuff.
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If the Lich doesnt teleport away or paralize you, you can attempt to ready-action your attack and try to fizzle his spells with the damage.
If I was the Lich, I would be teleporting. By casting defensively.
It's never smart to stand and fight when surrounded. I would leave and reinitiate combat on my own terms.
Why would the loch provoke an AoO when casting prone? There is nothing regarding that in the description of the prone condition. Is it found somewhere else in the ruleset?
There is no way in the rules to actually remove a body part in this game without pulling in some house rules that NO ONE wants turned against them.
Try again.
So I guess there's no amputees in fantasy realms lol.
And yes, there is. Called shots.
Try again.
Best bet let him go...your sorely out numbered and out gunned. Even if it was just the lich. Your best bet is to retreat gather your wits get the liches to separate on your next suary. If you have to fight them both with what you currently have...thats a tpk.
with your current groups complete lack of spellcasting (arcane or divine) vs a prepared arcane lich with three huge elemental servants you have about a 95% chance of being completely trounced inside of the next 2-3 rounds.Totally agree. I told my wife something similiar. "There's a 75% chance we wipe tonight"
Any ideas on how we can get the Wizard to us ASAP? He can teleport, but isn't familiar with this area.
Blind teleport is dangerous but worth it anyway.
There is no way in the rules to actually remove a body part in this game without pulling in some house rules that NO ONE wants turned against them.
Try again.So I guess there's no amputees in fantasy realms lol.
And yes, there is. Called shots.
Try again.
The called shot rules do not allow the removal of body parts. Even a called shot critical/debilitating hit to a head or arm leaves everything still there. Please read the rules.
So you're saying that if they impair the lich beyond the point of him being a threat, lay his arm out on a stump and say "I take my greatsword to his hand until it falls off" the DM will say "Oh that's not in the rules, so it's not physically possible to do that".
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There is no way in the rules to actually remove a body part in this game without pulling in some house rules that NO ONE wants turned against them.
Try again.So I guess there's no amputees in fantasy realms lol.
And yes, there is. Called shots.
Try again.
I hope your GM remembers this. And uses it against you.
*It's a house rule, not RAW.
Greater teleport solves the wizard abscence
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So you're saying that if they impair the lich beyond the point of him being a threat, lay his arm out on a stump and say "I take my greatsword to his hand until it falls off" the DM will say "Oh that's not in the rules, so it's not physically possible to do that".
There are a lot of mechanics not in the rules. Nor should they be.
Would you rule that the magic mcguffin could not be stolen with slight of hand because the player tied it to his penis (don't ask, it happened.) If you ruled this trick worked, does your campaign suddenly develop a market for penis cords?
Yes, they're not in the rules. It doesn't mean they shouldn't or don't exist.
But answer me that. Say you're running a game and a player says that. How would you handle it?
I see no reason why you couldn't slip it off his package. It would be harder than a simple pickpocket, but certainly possible.
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Yes, they're not in the rules. It doesn't mean they shouldn't or don't exist.
But answer me that. Say you're running a game and a player says that. How would you handle it?
I see no reason why you couldn't slip it off his package. It would be harder than a simple pickpocket, but certainly possible.
I made the ruling that slight of hand still worked. There is nothing in RAW that allowed that trick to work. The player permanently quit the campaign.
In your case I would rule no removal of limbs. There is nothing in RAW that allows your trick to work.
So what would happen if I took a razor sharp weapon and had somebody hold his arm down, then proceeded to hack in the same position at his wrist? Would the damage magically accumulate to his health bar like a video game?
@Old Fighter. I would say give your wizard the best description you can and have him teleport. Otherwise it's going to be very hard to pin down a lich run by a well-read GM.
Your telepathicly linked. You have direction sense..hes a wizard so he should be able to locate you fairly easy. Locate item works wonders.
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So what would happen if I took a razor sharp weapon and had somebody hold his arm down, then proceeded to hack in the same position at his wrist? Would the damage magically accumulate to his health bar like a video game?
Yes.
And then his body would magically reform over the next couple of days.
There are game systems with location specific damage. Pathfinder is not one of them.
That's terribly uncreative and short minded. Why play an RPG instead of a video game if there's not some creative measures allowed?
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Greater teleport solves the wizard abscenceUnfortunately he doesn't have Greater Teleport. He and I had though considered the following:
He teleports to where he left us and flies up in the air. We are 10 miles away from that spot.
We signal with some kind of huge explosion and he teleports to the explosion.
But we couldn't figure out how to create a huge fire/explosion in the Arctic plain with just the resources we have.
I'm going to advise you to have the wizard do nothing at all, just wait.
If your party lucks out and manages to defeat the Lich then good for you/ BUT when you don't and it kills you and leaves you laid out on the ice it would be nice to have someone alive to come collect your bodies and take you somewhere to be raised from the dead.Call it an insurance policy.
If the Lich doesnt teleport away or paralize you, you can attempt to ready-action your attack and try to fizzle his spells with the damage.
The lich is up next so the fighter won't be able to ready anything.
The phylactery reforms the liches entire body. I think Artanthos was assuming you killed the lich, not cut his arm off and let him go.
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That's terribly uncreative and short minded. Why play an RPG instead of a video game if there's not some creative measures allowed?
Oh, so you want your GM to have the next creature you fight to politely chop off your arm/jaw now? The no decapitation or called shot to remove limbs is there to protect the players more then the monsters. Once you all put that on the table expect your GM to start removing parts from you now.
It's a game and it's there to keep it a game.
I feel like I'm missing something. Why did the Elementals pop up during the first round of combat? Shouldn't they have appeared just before the Lich's turn in Round 2? I suppose it could have used a Quicken Metamagic Rod, but it seems unlikely. It would have done something else if that were the case.
Grendel says Hi.
Retreat and regroup.
If necessary, sacrifice a party member to cover your retreat - better than losing all of them.
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Grendel says Hi.
Yes, a special Unique (and insanely overpowered compared to it's mythos) creature with a special ability not available to creatures normally.
There is the Vorpal weapon effect and back in the day there were Swords of Sharpness which worked like Vorpal weapons, only they removed a limb... only there was no additional effect save that, "Look ma, no hand! Or foot...". But those were done away with.
I feel like I'm missing something. Why did the Elementals pop up during the first round of combat? Shouldn't they have appeared just before the Lich's turn in Round 2? I suppose it could have used a Quicken Metamagic Rod, but it seems unlikely. It would have done something else if that were the case.It had a held spell that it cast and held at the end of negotiations.
My brain is failing me today. I'm not sure what rules you're referencing here.
Regardless, that part's done with anyway. So I suppose it doesn't really matter.
That's terribly uncreative and short minded. Why play an RPG instead of a video game if there's not some creative measures allowed?Oh, so you want your GM to have the next creature you fight to politely chop off your arm/jaw now? The no decapitation or called shot to remove limbs is there to protect the players more then the monsters. Once you all put that on the table expect your GM to start removing parts from you now.
It's a game and it's there to keep it a game.
That's fine. It's realistic. It's fair.
My suggestion is to die with style and make casters of some sort next time.
As an 11th level fighter, you should have a few tricks up your sleeve - feats or magic items that let you do stuff besides take an AoO (which everybody gets) and grapple (again, everybody). You say you have Improved Trip (which implies you also have Combat Expertise)... there might be something hiding in the other dozen or so feats an 11th-level human fighter ought to have.
For instance, as somebody else pointed out, sundering the spell component pouch as part of an AoO could work. It depends on this guy's stats, but there's still a chance he's going to fail his concentration check if he tries to teleport away (not a great chance, but a chance).
Tentatively, my money'd say...
- if he tries to crawl away, sunder his spell component pouch
- if he tries to cast defensively, let him
- if he eats an AoO to cast, hit him
- if he attacks... let him. A fighter should have a decent shot at resisting a paralyzing touch, if anybody does.Otherwise, just fighting as hard as you can is really all that can be expected of you. If it's to be a TPK, then you might as well go out swinging.
Thanks, I appreciate the ray of hope. I do have improved trip, disarm, etc, etc, .. Many improved (combat manoeuvres). I forget off the top of my head. I'm old.
I like the idea of a called shot against his spell pouch. That's a great idea.
I think I'll follow your suggestions.
Second the targeting his component pouch, assuming he is a wizard and not a sorcerer of course. You could also try to use your AoO from his casting to disarm him of the material components he is using to cast his spell.
The lich will almost certainly cast on the defensive, which will not provoke an AoO. Assuming it does not successfully kill you all or Dimension Door or Teleport away on its initiative (which comes before any of you get an action, I would recommend that one or two of you sacrifice your action this round to ready an attack to disrupt the lich's casting next round. At that point your initiative and that of the lich will be identical, so unless it has Quickened spells it will hopefully be shut down.
But if I were that lich, I'd get out of Dodge now while the getting is good.
Yes, a special Unique (and insanely overpowered compared to it's mythos) creature with a special ability not available to creatures normally.
There is the Vorpal weapon effect and back in the day there were Swords of Sharpness which worked like Vorpal weapons, only they removed a limb... only there was no additional effect save that, "Look ma, no hand! Or foot...". But those were done away with.
Just pointing out that there are rules for limb removal. And in fact, as you point out, that it takes such a special ability for him to dismember his opponents points that it shouldn't be something you can just do whenever.