Butterfly's Sting's Auto-Crit Stacks with Itself?


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Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Purity wrote:

Butterfly’s Sting (Critical)

You can forgo a critical hit in order to pass it on to an ally.

Prerequisite: Combat Expertise.

Benefit: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.

So does this mean that if my first attack in my full attack is a critical and I choose to use Butterfly's Sting to reduce it to a regular hit, my next attack (since I'm my own ally) is now a considered an auto-crit, and therefore I can apply Butterfly's Sting to this hit as well to shuffle the critical back to the next hit?

That seems almost too good to be true for any blender build since that would allow you to guarantee that all of the rest of your attacks would hit for the round (since a confirmed critical is guaranteed to beat AC) and you could make your last attack a critical to boot. Throw this onto some two-weapon fighting/natural attacking monstrosity and have them quickdraw a scythe for their last attack...


Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Purity wrote:
and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn

I believe the way it works is like this:

1. You crit a creature.
2. You decide to forgo the crit
3. You then hit with your next attack
4. This attack is now turned into a crit

So no, your attacks are not going to automatically hit because the feat requires you to hit before it can be counted as a crit. Now, because you are your own ally, you could have a high-threat range weapon in one hand and a high-crit weapon in another to make a bunch of crits and have all of them do high damage, but it would still be worse then a THF taking advantage of the free crit.


But if your next attack hits you would still automatically confirm as a critical and be allowed to pass the auto-confirmation down the line to the next attack, correct? That way you could still full attack but guarantee the THF gets the bonus


Oh, I see!

You're trying to avoid consuming it with your own attacks, rather than trying to get an advantage from using it, so you're saying, any time you make an attack which would hit the creature, and thus use up the butterfly sting effect, you want to re-apply the feat so it's still available for someone else to make.

Hmm.

Honestly, I'd just let you do that automatically anyway, since that seems like the intended use of the feat.


Well since Carson pointed out that I WOULD still have to actually to hit (it would just auto-confirm) I wanted to make sure that I could still make the most out of the feat and that it wasn't restricted to the NEXT attack that hits (ie: can't chain it forward to your ally).

I figured that would be the case but I wanted to see if anyone could point out some reason why I wouldn't be able to pass the critical along to my ally and continue to full attack.


The intent was to pass the critical on to another character, but with the "you are you own ally ruling" it basically allows you to autoconfirm on the next hit.

PS: I think they should have worded that more strongly, but the rules are what they are.

PS2: I guess this also means you can decide if you want to keep the crit for yourself or pass it one to someone else.


... Huh. So would this work with the Gunslinger's Dead Shot deed? Specifically,

Dead Shot wrote:
For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm.

And, how would this affect the stacking Dead Shot reduced critical confirm penalties?

Dead Shot wrote:
If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0).

Gah, melee attack. Curses; I thought this was going to be really nice.


The butterfly sting would making it an autoconfirm would negate the -5. The penalty does not really matter for a roll that is not being made.


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With a Keen Kukri as your off-hand and a good x4 crit weapon as your main-hand, you can make off-hand attacks with your Kukri to fish for a crit, and then take your main-hand attack with the x4 weapon once you catch one. Alternatively, use a main-hand Scimitar as your fishing weapon and, say, an off-hand Punching Dagger (x3 crit).

Shadow Lodge

Kazaan wrote:
With a Keen Kukri as your off-hand and a good x4 crit weapon as your main-hand, you can make off-hand attacks with your Kukri to fish for a crit, and then take your main-hand attack with the x4 weapon once you catch one. Alternatively, use a main-hand Scimitar as your fishing weapon and, say, an off-hand Punching Dagger (x3 crit).

Or a light pick, to maximize the critical damage.

Dark Archive

I have a beast bonded witch built entirely on this. 3 levels of witch 7 levels of fighter. I have improved familiar and boon companion. My familiar is a Lyrakie who wields a improved critical flameblade scimitar that targets touch ac. She has all of my fighter feats but a few. Every time she Critz my enlarged lead bladed power attacking tetsubo wielding character smacks it for huge damage. 12d8+64

Lantern Lodge

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Hmm.. Interesting Idea...

Some good possibilities with a Kensai: Only use buff spells at the start of a fight, fight with Light Pick and Kukri (light pick being the weapon of focus here). Can spend 2 arcane points to make the light pick a x5 weapon. With each burst enchantment, you'd be adding 4d10 to the criticals. The pick could also be wyroot.

I wonder, what exactly do you lose from the critical hit? Would this work with Seize the Moment? Seize the Moment doesn't require an actual critical hit, just that one be confirmed (which is the requirement for butterfly sting).

You could make a very mean Beast Bonded Witch 1/Kensai X with this. You'd give the fairy Improved Critical: Scimitar, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Butterfly's Sting, and Seize the Moment (6 feats, ouch). A build might look like:

1 Weapon Finesse
2 *Weapon Focus: Light Pick
3 Toughness (Fairy needs more HP!)
4 Arcana: Familiar
5 Familiar: Combat Expertise
6 Familiar: Butterfly's Sting
7 Improved Familiar
7 Arcana:
9 Familiar Evolution: Reach
11 Familiar: Combat Reflexes
12 Familiar: Improved Critical
13 Familiar: Seize the Moment
13 Arcana:

There's probably better ways to do this, waiting until 13th level to get to what you want is killer and non-existant for PFS.


You know, I think this is a good feat for any crit fishing Magus, though its a pity about combat expertise:

Spell Combat: Take your full attack. If one of the attacks crits, "hold it" until the spell. Your touch attack of choice crits if it hits.

The downside: if you miss with the touch attack the crit will expire at the beginning of your next turn, so you "wasted" the extra crit damage... unless one of your allies hits the enemy, in which case they get the crit.

Lantern Lodge

Works well with other things that require crit fishing to be good, like Kirin Strike, but that feat is bad due to requiring two rounds to set it up, at least for people burning through swift actions.

Too bad you can't turn standard and move actions into swift actions.

Dark Archive

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Frodo, that would work probably really well. The reason I went fighter was so I could retrain my fighter bonus feats as I leveled. My familiar started out as a tiny monkey wielding a tiny sized heavy repeating crossbow that she fired from stealth. The crossbow was a disguised as a music box the monkey turned the handle on.


Question: Can Quick Draw be used in the middle of an attack sequence? If yes, then hilarity ensues by quick drawing a greataxe or tetsubo when a hit is lined up.

Dark Archive

Yes quick draw can work that way.


Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:
Yes quick draw can work that way

Hence my OP alluding to Quick Drawing a scythe. You could TWF and crit fish with your off hand and then drop your weapons to bust out a scythe to wreck house if one of the those confirmed. You could even throw in some natural attacks after that to attempt to fish a little more after you drew your scythe to try and make your next scythe attack a critical as well. Requires a lot of natural attacks or luck though, much easier to score a critical with a keen kukri than with a bite attack.


If you had a BAB of +6 to get that extra attack, I would allow a character to drop their weapons and pull out a scythe to attempt an amazing crit finish. The problem is, if you miss (which is likely because it would be at a -5 + a -2 from the TWF) you are left standing with you secondary weapon. It seems very powerful in a very specific circumstance, but not usable enough to be broken. In the next round, all of the feats that you spent on getting to that point, (Butterfly Sting, TWF, Improved Crit) would be useless as those weapons are laying on the floor instead of in your hands.

Sounds like an interesting thing for an NPC to do though!


All of a sudden two weapon crit-fishers are a lot more viable (and frightening).

Dark Archive

Critical fishing dual wielding flameblade is highly effective.

Lantern Lodge

OUt of curiosity Titania, how do you get the Flameblade? Wands?


johnnythexxxiv wrote:
since a confirmed critical is guaranteed to beat AC

Not technically. A 20 always hits, but if the AC is high enough that a 19 misses, you could lose the chain of crits. Of course against an enemy so strong that a 20 is needed to hit, you're much better off dropping the high-crit weapon and two-handing the high crit multiplier weapon.

Shadow Lodge

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I don't think I'd allow this - the intent of the rule seems very unlikely to count as "you are your own ally", despite the FAQ.

That FAQ was created based on effects like Inspire Courage - and that makes sense:

Do you count as your own ally? wrote:
You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."

Here, it seems like a poor choice of specific wording for the feat rather than intent. The text for Butterfly's Sting actually says "You can forgo a critical hit in order to pass it on to an ally." To forgo it to pass it onto your next attack because you count as your own ally seems like a RAW abuse here.


There is a big difference between "unless doing so would make no sense or be impossible" and "unless doing so would be too powerful, in someone's opinion". Can it be done and make sense? Yes. Therefore it works according to that FAQ and the wording of the feat.

I personally wouldn't allow this feat at all: it's weird and makes no sense in the game world. How does hitting a vital spot with a kukri and holding back from doing extra damage allow your friend to hit extra hard with a heavy pick?

That said, if it is allowed, the rules are not ambiguous, I don't think.


Carson6412 wrote:
If you had a BAB of +6 to get that extra attack, I would allow a character to drop their weapons and pull out a scythe to attempt an amazing crit finish. The problem is, if you miss (which is likely because it would be at a -5 + a -2 from the TWF)

It is not two weapon fighting to attack with separate weapons with +6/+1 bab

Shadow Lodge

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Can it be done and make sense? Yes. Therefore it works according to that FAQ and the wording of the feat.

When you're putting it into the context of the wording of the feat, which specifically says "passing it onto an ally", I don't think it does make sense, even with that FAQ.

Does anyone really think the intent of the feat when it was written was to allow you to pass it onto your own next attack considering the FAQ? To say yes is a pretty big stretch for me.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

There is a big difference between "unless doing so would make no sense or be impossible" and "unless doing so would be too powerful, in someone's opinion". Can it be done and make sense? Yes. Therefore it works according to that FAQ and the wording of the feat.

I personally wouldn't allow this feat at all: it's weird and makes no sense in the game world. How does hitting a vital spot with a kukri and holding back from doing extra damage allow your friend to hit extra hard with a heavy pick?

That said, if it is allowed, the rules are not ambiguous, I don't think.

Personally I think it only makes sense if you have a partner, and I would not allow it if you are fighting alone. The feat does not say you get to choose which ally benefits so it either only works for you or it works with a partner.

I think the idea suggest that your attack distracts the enemy so your ally gets a very open shot at a vulnerable area.

Grand Lodge

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I don't think that the character with Butterfly's Sting counts as the 'next ally'. I think that character is the same ally. Only another character would be the 'next ally'.


The "next ally" is the first ally to attack following the initial attack. Whether that's you or another ally is irrelevant.

Yes, you can set up your own sting. There's no more basis to say that it "doesn't make sense" unless you have a partner than there is for any other situation already covered by the "you are your own ally" FAQ.

Basically, unless you can offer a counterargument better than those that were thwarted when the ally FAQ was released, you have no grounds to object.

Shadow Lodge

Put me on the side of letting you set up your own crits. Here is my reasoning:

RAW you are your own ally unless it would make no sense for you to be your own ally or would be impossible.

RAI the feat is intended to help make synergy with the party and make x4 critical weapons be less "bursty". Still no problem, lets x4 crits work more often, and will probably help the team at one point or another[whether intentional or not].

Flavor:I've always viewed this feat as you making a mark on your enemy that hurts him enough for him to move into a less defensive position, so that he is exposing other vital spots. If he is making it easier to hit him in a critical space, then smacking him in one of those with your next attack would make sense. Example:You are facing your enemy's side, and hit him in the back with your kurki. You get lucky and arches his back, pushing his torso [with lots of vital organs to get hit], and then you take your light pick and slam him in the kidneys.

Just my 2 cp here.

Shadow Lodge

Does anyone have a link to a thread that has a similar precedent with the "you are your own ally" thing?

Inspire Courage doesn't count (pretty sure everyone agrees you can be inspired by your own tune as well), but there might be something more appropriate?


Avatar-1 wrote:

Does anyone have a link to a thread that has a similar precedent with the "you are your own ally" thing?

Inspire Courage doesn't count (pretty sure everyone agrees you can be inspired by your own tune as well), but there might be something more appropriate?

click me


blahpers wrote:

The "next ally" is the first ally to attack following the initial attack. Whether that's you or another ally is irrelevant.

Yes, you can set up your own sting. There's no more basis to say that it "doesn't make sense" unless you have a partner than there is for any other situation already covered by the "you are your own ally" FAQ.

Basically, unless you can offer a counterargument better than those that were thwarted when the ally FAQ was released, you have no grounds to object.

Actually there is basis. The RAI is for another creature to get the crit.

If you disagree then you are saying another member of your party only gets the crit if you crit on your last attack of your turn. <--Do you think this is RAI?


johnnythexxxiv wrote:
Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:
Yes quick draw can work that way
Hence my OP alluding to Quick Drawing a scythe. You could TWF and crit fish with your off hand and then drop your weapons to bust out a scythe to wreck house if one of the those confirmed. You could even throw in some natural attacks after that to attempt to fish a little more after you drew your scythe to try and make your next scythe attack a critical as well. Requires a lot of natural attacks or luck though, much easier to score a critical with a keen kukri than with a bite attack.

I believe there was a ruling at some point that basically said you couldn't make attacks with a freshly-drawn weapon if you'd already used that/those hands to make attacks that turn (and likewise for dropping weapons and making natural attacks with that/those hands).

Can't find it now, though. Maybe it was just a forum post, or maybe I'm imagining things.

Silver Crusade

wraithstrike wrote:
If you disagree then you are saying another member of your party only gets the crit if you crit on your last attack of your turn.

Not quite.

3 Attacks.
Pattern 1
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates and may be deferred
2nd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
3rd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
Crit passes to next Ally

Pattern 2
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates
2nd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
Crit passes to next Ally

Pattern 3
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates and may be deferred
2nd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
Crit passes to next Ally.

As you can see, regardless of the order of your hits or misses, once you trigger Butterfly you can always defer the subsequent crits until someone else gets to use it. The behavior doesn't change and only one Crit ever gets passed on to a different ally.


ErrantPursuit wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
If you disagree then you are saying another member of your party only gets the crit if you crit on your last attack of your turn.

Not quite.

3 Attacks.
Pattern 1
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates and may be deferred
2nd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
3rd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
Crit passes to next Ally

Pattern 2
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates
2nd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
Crit passes to next Ally

Pattern 3
1st Attack Crits - Butterfly activates and may be deferred
2nd Attack Misses - Butterfly not triggered
3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred
Crit passes to next Ally.

As you can see, regardless of the order of your hits or misses, once you trigger Butterfly you can always defer the subsequent crits until someone else gets to use it. The behavior doesn't change and only one Crit ever gets passed on to a different ally.

You knew what I meant.

If you are going to say you don't then I can explain it, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt unless you tell you don't get my point.


And the feat is not designed to create a string of never ending crits for yourself. That is another reason you being your own ally is not a good idea. Imagine this feat working like that with a giant using a X3 weapon and power attacking. That is almost an insta-death once the first crit lands under you pattern 2 interpretation.

Silver Crusade

wraithstrike wrote:

And the feat is not designed to create a string of never ending crits for yourself. That is another reason you being your own ally is not a good idea. Imagine this feat working like that with a giant using a X3 weapon and power attacking. That is almost an insta-death once the first crit lands under you pattern 2 interpretation.

edit: To take it further two people(heavy hitters)/giants(just used because they hit hard) with this feat could easily TPK a party by your interpretation.

Actually what really bothers me are the Alchemist/Barbarians with TWF using a kukri and a pick. On a perfect round you could see...1+4+1+4+1+4=15xdamage bonus. That's absurd, albeit incredibly unlikely.


wraithstrike wrote:

And the feat is not designed to create a string of never ending crits for yourself. That is another reason you being your own ally is not a good idea. Imagine this feat working like that with a giant using a X3 weapon and power attacking. That is almost an insta-death once the first crit lands under you pattern 2 interpretation.

He's not saying you get multiple crits from it.

Read the feat. When you confirm a crit, instead of taking the crit, you can transfer it into a normal hit to make the next hit auto confirm. If the next hit is also by someone who has Butterfly's Sting they can continue to pass the crit along till the person whom they want to have the crit gets it.

The feat doesn't generate more crits it just passes the crit(Optimally) to a person who has a better crit weapon than you or benefits from critical hits in some way. That is it's function.

If you were dual wielding a Kukri and Pick, yes you could pass the crit to your pick if the pick can get a hit in.


I like the idea of giving your crit to an ally. I have a problem with some of the combos show though...In particular the uber familiar giving the player crits. Familiars that are casters don't gain a ton of fighter feats, somehow the ability to use a druid spell, then get advanced crits..a lvl 3 witch with bond doesn't give it enough to qualify for imp crit even if it could, and then how does it apply to a summoned energy effect? And I would wonder, even if this were all possible, why a GM would allow it. Can't build this guy with animal comp either, maybe leadership, but again a GM should veto it.
Sorry for the bit of a derail, just some of the "combos" presented wouldn't make it into games in my area.


Scavion wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

And the feat is not designed to create a string of never ending crits for yourself. That is another reason you being your own ally is not a good idea. Imagine this feat working like that with a giant using a X3 weapon and power attacking. That is almost an insta-death once the first crit lands under you pattern 2 interpretation.

He's not saying you get multiple crits from it.

Read the feat. When you confirm a crit, instead of taking the crit, you can transfer it into a normal hit to make the next hit auto confirm. If the next hit is also by someone who has Butterfly's Sting they can continue to pass the crit along till the person whom they want to have the crit gets it.

The feat doesn't generate more crits it just passes the crit(Optimally) to a person who has a better crit weapon than you or benefits from critical hits in some way. That is it's function.

If you were dual wielding a Kukri and Pick, yes you could pass the crit to your pick if the pick can get a hit in.

Then what does this mean--->"3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred "

It looks to me like the crit damage is gained AND he gets a new crit to pass onto the next attack.

Grand Lodge

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As to counting as your own ally, I tend to consider that this feat goes by the same ruling as Gang Up, where you definitely do not count as your own ally.

As written, you would only ever be able to pass on a single crit, although, using readied attacks, if your GM allows, it might be possible for the crit fisher to get more of them passed to allies. That would require, though, figuring out some way to setup a ready for a passed on sting, and multiple high multipler allies, usually with a benefit from taking a single attack instead of just taking the single sting on their normal full attack.

Low level, TWF kukris, two allies, each with high multipler weapons, one set to attack (Vital Strike?) on a confirmed-but-passed crit, the other just setup in the order after the stinger.


wraithstrike wrote:


Then what does this mean--->"3rd Attack Hits - Butterfly triggers, auto-confirms. Butterfly Activates and may be deferred "

It looks to me like the crit damage is gained AND he gets a new crit to pass onto the next attack.

No, but I can see why you would think that

The main point is

Quote:
Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.

What he is saying that if you hit on your next attack, it is a critical and it auto confirms, and you can either

A. Take the critical on that next attack
B. Choose not to take the critical and apply it to the next ally's hit

You don't get both at once


I have no problem with you passing the crit to yourself. I would not allow a TWF to draw THW after crit is gained with an offhand attack. That hand is already committed. If you have a second off hand attack you draw a THW and attack with it but only with the second primary and second off hands. You could not use the first primary to attack with a THW even if you had not used it yet. You could use the one handed weapon in your primary hand, drop it, and use both of your secondary attacks to attack with a THW. All TWF penalties would apply but if you get a bonus when TWF you will lose it.

If you can not pass it to your self and you score 2 crits in the same full attack can you now pass on 2 crits? I think that would be worse.


Are wrote:

I believe there was a ruling at some point that basically said you couldn't make attacks with a freshly-drawn weapon if you'd already used that/those hands to make attacks that turn (and likewise for dropping weapons and making natural attacks with that/those hands).

Can't find it now, though. Maybe it was just a forum post, or maybe I'm imagining things.

You're misinterpreting the ruling on TWF/2-h interaction. The situation was that people thought you could make a main-hand attack with a 2-h weapon followed by an off-hand attack with a "non-held" weapon such as a gauntlet, unarmed strike, boot blade, etc. The Devs responded by saying that, even if you have a non-handed way or can release one hand from your weapon as a free action, you've "subsumed" your potential off-hand attack in making the two-handed attack. It doesn't matter if your off-hand attack is actually delivered by one of the hands wielding the 2-h weapon (via gauntlet or punch) or using a weapon that doesn't rely on the hands (kick, boot blade, boulder helmet, etc). The purpose is to balance the application of Str bonus to attacks. If you made a 2-h attack (1.5x Str) along with an off-hand attack (0.5x Str), then you end up with 2x Str bonus for that "volley" whereas the de facto standard by which encounters are balanced is 1.5x total for a single 2-h attack or a main-hand/off-hand pair.

This doesn't mean that, if you attack with a 2-h weapon, you can't drop said weapon and draw a new one to continue your normal iterative attacks. It just means that the same hand can't pull double-duty for the same tier of attack; it can't help wield a 2-h weapon and then make a separate attack of its own on the same level. But it can most certainly be used for its own attack at a lower level. To illustrate, say you have a Longsword and you also do Unarmed Strikes. You have +11 BAB for 3 iterative attacks and also GTWF for 3 off-hand attacks. Now, normally, you'd expect such a character to make 3 main-hand attacks with their Longsword and 3 off-hand attacks with Unarmed Strike. The ruling states that, if they two-hand their Longsword for those 3 main-hand attacks, they lose the 3 off-hand attacks they, potentially, could have otherwise made with Unarmed Strikes because those off-hand attacks were "taken up" in the two-handed wielding of the Longsword. However, if you make only one two-handed attack with the Longsword, it only takes up one of your off-hand attacks (the first one at full BAB) and, if you make your remaining Longsword attacks one-handed, you can still use your second and third offhand Unarmed Strikes (at -5 and -10 respectively). Alternately, if you make two of your off-hand attacks first, you have a "debt" to pay as you can't 2-h your Longsword until you've made 2 main-hand attacks with it. But after that is balanced, you can 2-h your Longsword on the third main-hand attack at the cost of your third off-hand attack. That's what the ruling means; it doesn't mean that you're not generally allowed to switch weapon in the middle of a full-attack.


I don't think you can use a Two-handed weapon while using the two-weapon fighting option. "Switching" in the middle of your full-attack is really strange: How do you calculate which malus are applied, etc etc ?
It's only a matter of main hand and off-hand. Once you used a one-handed weapon as a main hand and a one-handed or light weapon as a off-hand, penalties and the type of weapon you can used seems to be set until the end of your full-attack.

I see no objection to pass the crit to yourself as written. I don't see it more efficient that passing the attack to your ally with the big bad *4 crit anyway.

Lantern Lodge

I'm of the opinion that even though you pass the critical hit off, you still confirmed, meaning you qualify to give your ally an AoO via Sieze the Moment teamwork feat.

Recently, I realized that if you could pass the crit to yourself over and over, you would also be giving your allies AoO after AoO. That certainly doesn't seem right. Butterfly Sting should refer only to allies, aka your friends who are not you (or inside your head).


wraithstrike wrote:
blahpers wrote:

The "next ally" is the first ally to attack following the initial attack. Whether that's you or another ally is irrelevant.

Yes, you can set up your own sting. There's no more basis to say that it "doesn't make sense" unless you have a partner than there is for any other situation already covered by the "you are your own ally" FAQ.

Basically, unless you can offer a counterargument better than those that were thwarted when the ally FAQ was released, you have no grounds to object.

Actually there is basis. The RAI is for another creature to get the crit.

If you disagree then you are saying another member of your party only gets the crit if you crit on your last attack of your turn. <--Do you think this is RAI?

False dilemma. You can simply keep forgoing the crit and passing it along. Your ally can still take advantage of it.


I agree with Blahpers. You do count as your own ally for this feat because it doesn't say you don't and it makes sense for you to be able to. That is the "rule" is it not? Also I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out or not but you can't chain it. The feat only activates when you CONFIRM a critical hit, the auto crit given by the feat is never technically confirmed, or rather it was confirmed on the first attack to activate the feat in the first place.

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