Is the infinite staircase still around?

[FuelDrop]

Back in the day there used to be an infinite staircase that spanned the multiverse... I think. Yeah, pretty sure I'm remembering correctly. is that still around?

[Chemlak]

It's WotC IP, and the 3.x Manual of the Planes doesn't have an Open Content declaration (neither one way or the other, which is a bit odd), so we have to fall back on good old Copyright rules, which it very much does have, which says nobody can use it without permission.

Edit: but yes, you remembered right - it did exist.

[FuelDrop]

Damn it, I had a slinky all ready!

[Roger Corbera]

Perhaps the rules of Copyright doesn't apply in the Infinity Staircase...

[FuelDrop]

Hmmm... How long would it take for a slinky to wear out on an infinite staircase?

[Orfamay Quest]

Make it adamant and it will wear the stairs out first.

[thejeff]

Not in Pathfinder or even D20, but Lords of Gossamer and Shadow is based around an infinite staircase. It's an update of Amber Diceless and looks quite promising.

The Grand Stair's a little too complex for a slinky though. Too many landings and doors and ladders and things. :)

[Spook205]

Just remember, copyright prevents official usages.

If you want your adventurers to find a strange door in the back of the coffeehouse renowned for poetry, song and providing a home for the creative..
And if they then find themselves on a looping steps leading up and down and sideways, and are fearless of the potential of being doomed by finding what they've always wanted or have the strength to not chase their dreams blindly instead to find new and better dreams amidst worlds of novelty, wonder and endless horror.

Then the Infinite Staircase still awaits them.

[thejeff]

Spook205 wrote:

Just remember, copyright prevents official usages.

If you want your adventurers to find a strange door in the back of the coffeehouse renowned for poetry, song and providing a home for the creative..
And if they then find themselves on a looping steps leading up and down and sideways, and are fearless of the potential of being doomed by finding what they've always wanted or have the strength to not chase their dreams blindly instead to find new and better dreams amidst worlds of novelty, wonder and endless horror.

Then the Infinite Staircase still awaits them.

I'd be shocked if the idea of an infinite staircase was copyrightable. If so, I'm sure it's been used in fiction long before the Manual of the Planes. The language used in that book is of course copyright, maybe even some of the mechanics, but not the basic concept.

Paizo could put out a Complete Planes book with an infinite stairway in it if they wanted.

[Spook205]

They could put an infinite stairway, but The Infinite Staircase is a different matter.

Its kind of like how you can be a big burly, genetically modified dude in power armor who fights for a theocratic overlord in a science fiction setting, but should probably shy away from the term Space Marine, unless you want Games Workshop to scent blood in the water.

The Infinite Staircase was tied to Great Wheel Cosmology (Copyrightable), and represented clear definable concepts.

TSR, and therefore Hasbro/WotC also has rights to 'The Infinite Staircase' the book that detailed the adventure based on the thing.

Just having a staircase which is infinite, isn't the same thing as The Infinite Staircase(tm) and you can have as Eternal Ballustrades, Unending Escalators and Ceaseless Steps as your heart desires.

Although it could be made functionally the same (the not-mind flayers from the 3rd party Psionics books come to mind), Paizo tries to create new material instead of trying to make old WoTC/TSR material with the serial numbers filed off.

What I was getting at though is, if you want to play with the Infinite Staircase, just do so.

It doesn't need to be official material to be canon in your campaign setting. :)

[thejeff]

Spook205 wrote:

They could put an infinite stairway, but The Infinite Staircase is a different matter.

Its kind of like how you can be a big burly, genetically modified dude in power armor who fights for a theocratic overlord in a science fiction setting, but should probably shy away from the term Space Marine, unless you want Games Workshop to scent blood in the water.

The Infinite Staircase was tied to Great Wheel Cosmology (Copyrightable), and represented clear definable concepts.

TSR, and therefore Hasbro/WotC also has rights to 'The Infinite Staircase' the book that detailed the adventure based on the thing.

Just having a staircase which is infinite, isn't the same thing as The Infinite Staircase(tm) and you can have as Eternal Ballustrades, Unending Escalators and Ceaseless Steps as your heart desires.

Although it could be made functionally the same (the not-mind flayers from the 3rd party Psionics books come to mind), Paizo tries to create new material instead of trying to make old WoTC/TSR material with the serial numbers filed off.

What I was getting at though is, if you want to play with the Infinite Staircase, just do so.

It doesn't need to be official material to be canon in your campaign setting. :)

"Infinite Staircase" might be Trademarked and that would be a problem for direct use, but one easily worked around. Paizo could file the serial numbers of, or as you say, you can certainly use it yourself.

The larger reason I suspect Paizo won't make any use of the concept, is that they seem to have taken the direction of a single material universe infinite in space, rather than multiple material planes.

[Lincoln Hills]

I still use it. Well, actually, technically I haven't used it, or the World Serpent Inn - though I've been meaning to use both. The only PF campaign I've had plane-hopping in was while running Reign of Winter, which of course uses Baba Yaga's hut instead.

Sadly, by the time PCs are ready to face the challenges of other planes, they've usually got so many things to attend to on their world that they turn their back on this opportunity for much stranger adventure.

[Roger Corbera]

I think the Infinite Staircase is too good an idea so simply overlook it. It's also a tentation for any plane ambitious DM.

Lilendras already exists in Golarion, so I suppose any of them could now the Staircase. In Forgotten Realms (AD&D 2nd) they were its protectors.

[Ascalaphus]

You can probably get away with a cosmic Jacob's Ladder. I don't think WotC has biblical copyrights :P

Also, how were you going to remove an infinite object? What contractor can )in good faith) promise timely completion of such a project?

[Theconiel]

Ascalaphus wrote:

You can probably get away with a cosmic Jacob's Ladder. I don't think WotC has biblical copyrights :P

Also, how were you going to remove an infinite object? What contractor can )in good faith) promise timely completion of such a project?

The contractor who keeps at 20th level wizard on his payroll to keep casting Time Stop?

[Theconiel]

Anybody else remember The Phantom Tollbooth? The main character wants to see the number with the greatest possible magnitude, and is told that he can find it at the top of the infinite staircase. Or, he could follow the line with no end, and turn left at the end.

[SeeleyOne]

Just make it an escalator. Or maybe several of them.

[James Jacobs]

The reason we don't have the Infinite Staircase in our game is the same reason we don't have the Force, or a Justice League, or the monster from Alien.

All of those things, Infinite Staircase included, are the intellectual properties of companies or people other than Paizo. By the same extent, we don't want Wizards of the Coast or Marvel or Hollywood using the Red Mantis in their products without licensing them from us.

The Infinite Staircase fits in quite well into the Great Beyond if you want to include it in your home game. As would all sorts of other things. They can't be an official part of our work though.

[Anguish]

So the Justice League are opening random doors on the Infinite Staircase when one opens up to a plane full of Alien xenomorphs who turn out to have Force powers.

Thanks James... I didn't have anything prepped for next session, now I've got a great encounter to drop my players into the middle of.

<Grin>

[Zhayne]

FuelDrop wrote:

Back in the day there used to be an infinite staircase that spanned the multiverse... I think. Yeah, pretty sure I'm remembering correctly. is that still around?

Are you the GM?

Do you want it to still be around?

If the answer to both questions is 'yes', then there is an infinite staircase spanning the multiverse.

[FuelDrop]

In reality, the main reason I wanted this was so one of my chaotic characters could unleash a slinky on it. because, you know, that'd be hilarious. Also, really good place to hide the bodies as after rolling for a few hundred thousand miles I'm pretty sure they'd be unrecognizable.

I suppose a recursive demiplane would work too...