So these seem to come up fairly often on the boards. It creates the perception that they seem to be used a lot to bypass some limitation like reach or handedness.
No one in my group has evee uses them but I look them up whenever a thread pops up using them. There has been something that's been nagging me (well I find the image of aoos with them funny but that's a seperate issue)
So my question is. Do armor spikes threaten? Now before anyone gets on my case and says "of course they do magic rat". Here's the thing.
Pf is a permission bases game (when its not using unwritten rules I mean) for some reason the write up on them goes into great detail about what you can and cannot do with them.
So can you only do what the listing says they can do? Or is a lot of the write up unnecessary redundant info.
I want to stress this isn't intended as an anti armour spikes rant my puppy didnr die to them when the neighborhood bulldog did an aoo with his collar. (Again funny visuals I'd its not my puppy involved)
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As far as I know a weapon threatens within its reach unless specified otherwise, so long as it can make an attack anyway.
Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.
Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
The problem is it could have just said they are treated as a light martial weapon in one line. But it goes out of its way to show all the things you can do with them.
So its just redundant info?
People have armor and add spikes, then they're going to give back questions of "huh?" because it's a weapon in the core rules that you don't need a hand to hold onto, I figure. I remember reading this and was like, "how does this work? I just have it on my armor?"
I've had friends in the past think it was only for grappling purposes, and others who just thought it was weapon purposes. Both instances we looked up the rules and they were pleasantly surprised that it did grapple damage and behaved like a weapon.
Yeah as I said in one of the other threads when I first saw them in 3.0 I assumed graples only. It was message boards that implied other uses and I'm fine eith tje accepted paradigm. It looks like its redundant info to prevent confusion rather than an exclusive list of actions.
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I always cite the monk in terms of improved unarmed strike to show redundancy. You have NO IDEA how many times people think the Monk is the only possible exception to holding objects and hitting others with their limbs other than their fists. I take a deep breath and tell them the crazy world of "i use unarmed strike to attack" and you can literally say anything you want for the rp of your attack.
I always cite the monk in terms of improved unarmed strike to show redundancy. You have NO IDEA how many times people think the Monk is the only possible exception to holding objects and hitting others with their limbs other than their fists. I take a deep breath and tell them the crazy world of "i use unarmed strike to attack" and you can literally say anything you want for the rp of your attack.
Yeah I noticed the brawler still has that wording and the ex feature of sundering during flurry :p
I've never actually seen armor spikes used for grappling.
I always cite the monk in terms of improved unarmed strike to show redundancy. You have NO IDEA how many times people think the Monk is the only possible exception to holding objects and hitting others with their limbs other than their fists. I take a deep breath and tell them the crazy world of "i use unarmed strike to attack" and you can literally say anything you want for the rp of your attack.Yeah I noticed the brawler still has that wording and the ex feature of sundering during flurry :p
I've never actually seen armor spikes used for grappling.
I've never seen a full on grappler, and every time I ever grapple or someone else does who has the spikes... we completely forget about it.
I read the Druid grappling a succubus thread, and I stopped building my grappler.
People, why this kind of threads even exist? was all the overeacted nerf to armor spikes not enough? :(
People, why this kind of htreads even exist? was all the overeacted nerf to armor spikes not enough? :(
Armor spikes are just too cool to be ignored maybe?
nerf to armor spikes?
Well, actually nerf to TWF and armor spikes, but there was the intent to also nerf the polearm+armor spikes combo.
nerf to armor spikes?
Once upon a time you could dual wield armor spikes and a two handed weapon. This was awesome because two weapon fighting kind of sucks, and the imagery of a guy body checking someone and smashing another guy with a greataxe is pretty cool imo. But then, the dark ages came, and we were told that we couldn't use armor spikes because we only had two hands and they were too busy using the greataxe for us to use our spiked gauntlets! So no more kneeing or elbowing or shoulderchecking people with our armor spikes while smacking them with two handed weapons.
More specifically, you have to meta-physical hands and can only use those to attack. The armor spikes take one of those metaphysical hands. Oddly enough wielding and attacking and holding all work differently with your hands and this is a weird sort of unwritten rule that we shouldn't get into because we have a few hundred page post about it.
Same old story of the Have-castings flourishing the Have-not-casting getting screwed by the system.
Two hand guy with power attack full attacking or bust! Other options include archer who has glue on his feet and may as well be part turret, and guy with guns who goes pewpewpewpew and does nothing else in combat(Also glued to floor)!
Yeah, I think there was a lot of that sentiment going around.
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I love the cestus.
I imagine claws to be all slashy, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the stabs