At the end of City of Lies, if the characters come out victorious, then well, the Worldwound is closed, and there is a communal cheer of 'huzzah' from the world; except with the possibility of Cheliax. True, they don't want the Worldwound to exist anymore than the rest of the world, but now, with it gone, Iomedae, or more specifically her Church and Heroes, can focus on them. It was even mentioned somewhere that the only reason the Church hasn't focused on Cheliax is because the Crusade.
Now sure, there is still mop-up to be done, but with the threat gone, they can direct their gaze elsewhere. Has anyone else thought that this would not only be a great continuance of the AP but a natural progression?
Sure, but I think the bigger question is "what can you conceivably do to get those mythical demi-gods out of the campaign world, before they wreck the setting?" :p
No, because I can't imagine anything that would challenge successful PCs at the end of the AP. Anything on Golarion would probably be a joke and not worth describing.
My PCs are only 12/4 and I feel that way some nights.
CTHULHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CTHULHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Already statted in Pathfinder and a pushover for fully realized mythic characters (i.e. 20/10).
"With minions" is not the same as "alone" and a group of mythic heroes at the peak of their power will barely have to sneeze to destroy him.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"With minions" is not the same as "alone" and a group of mythic heroes at the peak of their power will barely have to sneeze to destroy him.
Well you don't have to be a big stick in the mud about it:(
it was just a suggestion
@Sprain Ogre: I do, and I knock my PCs down quite often. However, if I didn't the listed encounters would be far too easy. My point is to the OP; if the world doesn't change then there isn't likely to be any challenges left for these PCs.
Unless it is a gateway into turning Golarion into a world with super heroes and villains where everyone's power level takes a huge step forward.
Seeing as how at this stage the heroes are functionally immortal demigods and as a party probably represent the single most concentrated point of power on the face of Golarion...I can see Iomedae or another "sponsor" giving them a nice cushy positions as high ranking servitors/vassals/"guests"/etc/etc in their realms.
Also I just think it would be amusing in some future campaign that the cleric uses Gate or Planar ally and ends up summoning his previous PC.
Obviously, the most amusing thing to do after closing the Worldwound is to scour Cheliax from the Material Plane.
Watch out, Abrogail...we're coming for you.
"With minions" is not the same as "alone" and a group of mythic heroes at the peak of their power will barely have to sneeze to destroy him.Uh...a threat was asked for and Cthulhu + minions seems a legitimate one if done properly.
You're the guy who mentioned minions, the original post I actually responded to only mentioned Cthulhu.
You're the guy who mentioned minions, the original post I actually responded to only mentioned Cthulhu."With minions" is not the same as "alone" and a group of mythic heroes at the peak of their power will barely have to sneeze to destroy him.Uh...a threat was asked for and Cthulhu + minions seems a legitimate one if done properly.
True i only mentioned CTHULHU!!!!!!!! but i mean c'mon its f*$!ing Cthulhu! i assume a guy like that doesn't just walk around without a significant entourage of sycophants and hangers-on:)
plus the dude can summon star-spawn in like no time plus he's IMMORTAL (i.e. cannot be killed)
Eh, he can be killed just like that, only that he does come back one time. After getting killed a second time, he goes back to sleep. Good enough for a win and I think inventive mythic lvl 20/tier 10 heroes could come up with a mulligan to get rid of him for good.
|
@Sprain Ogre: I do, and I knock my PCs down quite often. However, if I didn't the listed encounters would be far too easy. My point is to the OP; if the world doesn't change then there isn't likely to be any challenges left for these PCs.
Unless it is a gateway into turning Golarion into a world with super heroes and villains where everyone's power level takes a huge step forward.
Oh, yes, that I TOTALLY agree with. Top tier mythic PC's are giants in the sandbox, and as such should fade into the background, ready for the next cosmic level calamity, or making the transition to godhood. Or going around and kicking the teeth in of goblin tribes, for lalz. :)
Obviously, the most amusing thing to do after closing the Worldwound is to scour Cheliax from the Material Plane.
Watch out, Abrogail...we're coming for you.
Perhaps the world has a way of balancing things. Perhaps, with the emergence of these Mythic Heroes, some Mythic Devils show up to ensure that Cheliax isn't scoured from the Material Plane. Or a party of Mythic Adventurers that aren't exactly on the side of the angels that have interests of their own arise independently from another part of Golarion. Perhaps for every Sherlock there is a Moriarty.
I'd see the victorious Mythic party as being semi-retired. They are now the "behind the scenes" movers and shakers. They are the ones now "employing" new generations of adventuring parties and using proxies to conduct business. They are the Circle of Eight/Harper Leaders/whatever of the world. But if they start sticking their fingers directly into things - well, equally powerful challenges will appear (leading to a Mythic Adventure, perhaps, but something that likely plays out on a plane, rather than Golarion).
So let em fade into semi-retirement, much like Sprain Ogre suggests.
Depending on your party, you could absolutely offer to open up the opportunity for them to have an epilogue where they aren't really challenged at all and solve Golarion problems. Could be very fun to play around with mythic powers solving less mega issues, as a sort of "now what did you always WANT to have accomplished with your super powers, now that everything is fixed?"
|
Memo from the Gods: "Congratulations, you've closed the Worldwound. We give you two options. 1-Leave the Material Plane behind forever and join our ranks. 2-Be stripped of all your might, and become Rovagug's new chew toy."....dramatic pause...."Your choice." *malicious grin*
This creates an instant power vacuum, providing lots of new threads for new PCs to chase down.
Yeah...except the Good Gods wouldn't stand for that and the Neutral ones don't care.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think adventuring beyond Golarion or even the Material Plane is the best way to handle this. Go all Silver Surfer or Doctor Strange and have them deal with the outer planes or cosmic entities in the blackness between stars.
|
|
I think adventuring beyond Golarion or even the Material Plane is the best way to handle this. Go all Silver Surfer or Doctor Strange and have them deal with the outer planes or cosmic entities in the blackness between stars.
This is probably the best advice. Maybe let them go fix one or two of Golarion's big problems (like Cheliax, for example) so they can glory in their power, then have them get called by Iomedae (or somebody) to deal with something on a larger scale.
Depending on how you ran Iomedae, the players may give her the proverbial finger and go elsewhere :)
If you have a player that is looking for divine ascension, I think helping them forge a planar realm of their own would be really good. Maybe allow them to have templates to bump their power up beyond level 25 to reach up to demigod power, and once they get to "level 30" (really, CR 30 from the templates or whatnot), they have one final hurrah and become full-fledged gods.
Sure, but I think the bigger question is "what can you conceivably do to get those mythical demi-gods out of the campaign world, before they wreck the setting?" :p
Havn't they effectively already done so? They have closed the Worldwound and have killed at least two Demon Lords, if not more. This AP is a setting breaker. The very first AP, if the PCs failed, has the reemergence of a Runelord. Many of the APs are 'setting breaking' by their very nature. And Wrath is blatantly one.
Sure, but I think the bigger question is "what can you conceivably do to get those mythical demi-gods out of the campaign world, before they wreck the setting?" :pHavn't they effectively already done so? They have closed the Worldwound and have killed at least two Demon Lords, if not more. This AP is a setting breaker. The very first AP, if the PCs failed, has the reemergence of a Runelord. Many of the APs are 'setting breaking' by their very nature. And Wrath is blatantly one.
I think we have different definitions of "breaking the setting". For you, it appears to be that anything which changes the status quo in a region makes the setting broken. For me, it would be a group of characters which can solve every problem without possible meaningful resistance from opposing factions. I mean, after the AP what stops the party from stopping by in Cheliax, Nidal, Ustalav, Geb, Nex and so on and wiping out every major threat to Golarion? Who could conceivably stop them? The Alliance of Evil Supervillains?
That's a problem which the AP doesn't address in its "after the campaign" section.
|
|
Or just have their mythic powers leave them. With the defeat (ideally) of the Worldwound, the reason for the Wardstones (the source of their power), fades. Or, the power is still tied up in that region, so straying too far for too long from it decreases their power. This way, they have the chance to try and use their powers to do some follow up stuff, including going for the divine ascension (at which point, they really don't deal with prime material problems anyway).
Or, just end the campaign. (Way to go heroes!)
Hell, have another divine agent approach them, warning that if they interfere outside of where their Myth has risen, it could have dire consequences.
Or, just start powering up some super high CR baddies and let them rip. Nothing says the Whispering Tyrant can't be a CR 40 something, with huge armies of CR 20 doom creatures. Go nuts, their super high level characters after all. I mean, I wouldn't want to run that campaign, but if someone really wants to, I imagine it'd be some work no matter what way you slice it.
Okay, possibilities one and two would seem to be the best solutions to prevent the characters from going on a rip-roaring rampage of revenge against every major evil-doer of Golarion. :p
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, my Iomedaean character would probably not give two hoots on Cheliax.
"An empire a world away means little when my own people here in Sarkoris need to rebuild. Maybe we can join your fight later, but for now, we have a homeland to take back!"
I like playing "savage paladins" who come from cultures like the Shoanti or Kellids that blend their tribal beliefs with paladin vows to Sarenrae or Iomedae.
Your concerns, Magnuskn, are probably true for most Adventure Paths - by their end, the PCs are high enough in power level to challenge any major force of evil, a fact that other APs ignore. So nothing is special this time around.
So I guess the difference between a level 20/tier 10 party and a level 18 party is lost on you?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Best options are either to retire the mythic PCs or leave the boundaries of the world into other dimensions/planes.
There is also the OUTER SPAAAAAACE option.
OR you could have a convoluted plot were Darkseid triggers another Crisis and everything resets to ZERO right before the start of Rise of the Runelords, and everyone goes "What the @$#% just happened!!"
Honestly, my Iomedaean character would probably not give two hoots on Cheliax.
"An empire a world away means little when my own people here in Sarkoris need to rebuild. Maybe we can join your fight later, but for now, we have a homeland to take back!"
I like playing "savage paladins" who come from cultures like the Shoanti or Kellids that blend their tribal beliefs with paladin vows to Sarenrae or Iomedae.
Sarkoris Restored. It not like they'll put the world at risk a THIRD TIME down the road (ie "Oops we did it again).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Make them gods. Set up a 'test of the Starstone', then have them be bound by the non interference rules. They can be who their next characters worship.
|
|
Make them gods. Set up a 'test of the Starstone', then have them be bound by the non interference rules. They can be who their next characters worship.
This is a cool idea. You could also look at the history of Aroden before he became a god and use that for ideas.
I mean, now that these Mythic heroes have closed the Worldwound ... what do THEY want to do now? Are they going to continue adventuring together now that the threat of the Worldwound is finished? Adventuring parties are kind of like bands. You have a bunch of really talented people, who tend to have strong personalities, all working together. How often do bands break up and/or drift apart? What about bands that have already hit the pinnacle of their careers and have nowhere else to go? It's not like they can earn more XP or tiers after they hit 20/10. Maybe some of those Mythic heroes will want to break off and focus on a solo project for a while.
As powerful as the heroes are at 20/10, they can't be everywhere at once. Every time the put out one fire another dozen can spring up elsewhere.
And overthrowing the nation of Cheliax isn't as simple as just walking in and killing the members of House Thrune. Pinning down and overthrowing House Thrune and its supporters would take a while under even the best circumstances ... and what happens to the nation when you create a sudden power vacuum?
Are all the characters going to want to take the time and effort to overthrow a government? If they do, will they all want to take the time and effort to deal with the fallout? If they do, how many years will they have to tie themselves down dealing with it?
Or will the party of Mythic heroes go their separate ways. Maybe some stay to help undo the damage of the Worldwound. Others head out to explore the outer planes or solar system. Maybe one or two go destabilize a country of their choosing. Found organizations, become the patrons of nations, whatever.
So they all get to have a major impact on the world, but unless they selected the Longevity path ability they will eventually die of old age. If not, they'll probably have to be "promoted" to godhood sooner or later.
The next campaign gets to deal with the fallout. Everybody wins.
|
|
Sarkoris Restored. It not like they'll put the world at risk a THIRD TIME down the road (ie "Oops we did it again).Honestly, my Iomedaean character would probably not give two hoots on Cheliax.
"An empire a world away means little when my own people here in Sarkoris need to rebuild. Maybe we can join your fight later, but for now, we have a homeland to take back!"
I like playing "savage paladins" who come from cultures like the Shoanti or Kellids that blend their tribal beliefs with paladin vows to Sarenrae or Iomedae.
With an actual paladin making a bid for High Clanliege, maybe that'll change...
Now sure, there is still mop-up to be done, but with the threat gone, they can direct their gaze elsewhere. Has anyone else thought that this would not only be a great continuance of the AP but a natural progression?
That is a good point, and might make for an interesting continuation, but the real question is how would they go about it? Cheliax isn't quite like most APs in that there isn't a single "Big Bad" to knock down at the end and set everything right. Bringing down that empire would require a combination of politics and warfare.
It would definitely be a great challenge to PCs of any levels (even maxed out like PCs who survive WotR would be), but it would be a very different sort of campaign altogether, and it would doubtless involve more nations than just Cheliax.