| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I was browsing the SRD and what do I find but 4 new archetypes in a recently released book I didn't even know was coming out.
Anybody run these yet or had time to formulate opinions?
They're quite odd, in some cases.
The Contemplative (Dwarf Racial Archetype) seems pretty cool. Unique in that it actually replaces racial traits as part of its class abilities...which is very weird and a bit of a headache when you factor in Racial Heritage. Nevertheless, it seems like a pretty good archetype for those who don't like Stunning Fist (like myself) and finally allows for a Monk who can use one of the gajillion Monk weapons they're not proficient with (like my personal favorite, the Nine Ring Broadsword...I'm a sucker for x3 crit weapons).
Hamatulatsu Master is likewise pretty cool. The additional Stunning Fist and Ki Pool effects (especially the retaliatory strike and "extra Stunning Fist for Ki" powers). My one major gripe at a glance...they can't get Hamatula Strike/Grasp as Bonus Feats. What gives?
Spirit Master I REALLY like for an undead killing Monk. Or, I would, if the majorly useful anti-Necromancer/Undead ability wasn't put up at 19th level for some odd reason. Namely Spirit Flow. But Spirit Combat And Diamond Spirit are quite useful, and Spirit Burst just sounds awesome.
Monk of the Seven Forms is also kind of neat, though there's not much to it. It gets Lightning Finish, which IMO is a far superior ability to Stunning Fist in many cases (especially starting around 8th) and can lead to a Flurrying Monk getting up to even more ATATATATATATA in a round, but other than that it gets a crappy Bonus Feat and a neat Inspire Courage-esque ability starting at 11th. Bonus, I think it stacks with the majority of other archetypes (since not many replace Abundant Step and Quivering Palm IIRC, and none replace Maneuver Training), so there.s that.
So, anyone have anything more in-depth beyond first impressions yet?
Huh, I didn't see those there.
1. Contemplative confuses me a bit as he can spend his Awaken Divinity on himself as a swift action... and then he can't use the ki for most things because it goes away at the beginning of his next turn and he already used his swift for that turn.
2. Hamatulatsu Master seems almost like a straight upgrade (but then again what archetype isn't compared to core monk?). A bunch of extra options, a slightly better feat list, and all you lose is Purity of Body. Wish Hamatula Strike was there too though.
3. Spirit Master has some cool stuff, but oddly what really stood out to me was Spirit Combat: It's nice to see a Monk get an ability with a decent duration that doesn't require a Ki point. Monk's get gouged with their Ki enough as it is so that was kinda neat. Hope its a sign of things to come overall for the class.
4. Monk of the Seven Forms is interesting as it actually seems to have synergy: Looks like ideally at level 12 Lightning Finish could let you satisfy the prerequisites to keep Sirocco Fury up while still letting you full attack. A good build could probably be based around that... maybe even with Medusa's Wrath in there somewhere.
1. Contemplative looks a bit crap - so, on par with most racial archetypes from the ARG.
2. Hamatulatsu Master looks nice. I like the retributive strike for it's use as a combo breaker.
3. Lightning Finish is sweet.
4. Spirit Master doesn't gain anything that's good enough to make me care.
Other things from the book, at first glance
Demon Slayer Ranger archetype: It starts out doing what it's supposed to do; not that I can imagine going against evil outsiders from level 1, but it's well designed in the beginning. But assuming that a level 11 demonslayer doesn't have a good-aligned weapon, that's just ridiculous.
Furious Guardian: Starts out as a silly nickel-and-dime bodyguard function, but it gets surprisingly good later.
Burn Rider: Cinder Sight is crazy good, the rest is not completely useless.
Siege Gunner is also the Scattergun specialist, and we've been waiting for one of those.
Gun Scavenger is just weird, but it doesn't trade away any core comptence, so that's fine.
Learned Duelist is a Fighter Archetype, and AFAICT doesn't put him anywhere near a Swashbuckler.
Horse Lord seems as useless as most other terrain specialists.
Enlightened Paladin is...tragic, because Personal Trial is such a huge downgrade from Smite Evil.
Monstrous Mount & M.M. Mastery are annoying feat taxes for things those characters should just have. But at least they let your character ride in on his hippogriff, no begging necessary.
Looking some of these up...
I actually really like Gun Scavenger, it's pretty nifty.
Demonslayer looks lackluster at best.
Ulfen Guard looks pretty badass for a Bodyguard build. I may have to use that one for a future NPC guard or something at the very least.
Siege Engineer looks cool, though its Deeds are contradictory. It says "A siege gunner swaps a pair of deeds of her choosing for the following." and then specifies exactly which Deeds are swapped anyway.
The rest I'll look into later, these ones were just the ones that sounded interesting.
Looking some of these up...
I actually really like Gun Scavenger, it's pretty nifty.
Demonslayer looks lackluster at best.
Ulfen Guard looks pretty badass for a Bodyguard build. I may have to use that one for a future NPC guard or something at the very least.
Siege Engineer looks cool, though its Deeds are contradictory. It says "A siege gunner swaps a pair of deeds of her choosing for the following." and then specifies exactly which Deeds are swapped anyway.
The rest I'll look into later, these ones were just the ones that sounded interesting.
Horselord(Cav) lets you use a slashing weapon like a lance while charging. Also has some cool abilities to make it a very mobile mounted class.
Dune Drifter is cool too. Gunslinger Cav.
Monk of the seven forms seems perfect for dervish dance, in the lomg haul anyways.
I believe so. Hardcover anyway, PDF isn't until the 30th.
The Demonslayer archetype is in an odd place for me. I think the main issue is that it doesn't do much for the class; You don't give up a whole lot by taking the archetype, but you also don't get much for it. It's unimpressive, as far as archetypes go. Not bad, just ... meh.
Dune Drifter looks nice, but unless the version of PFSRD is wrong, it seems to have suffered from a big rules oversight; normal cavalier challenge only gives a bonus to melee attacks, and nothing in the archetype changes that. Given that other archetype abilities clearly indicate you should be shooting what you challenge, I'm inclined to think it's an oversight. I'm also just a tad put out by the flavor of it, mostly because I would've preferred a Gun-Cavalier to be more like a reiter or cuirassier to fit Renaissance setting, rather than dipping into Western tropes for the archetype.
Really like what? i have been looking forward to a non "shining knight" pally for a while...Pm me with it to avoid derailing if you would pleaseEnlightened paladin says it loses the paladin code restrictions.
You pay a hefty price for it though.
No Smite, no immunity to Fear (though gets immunity to a much much much rarer ability so you can punt Pugwampis all day I guess), no Detect Evil (instead they can sense people with a Ki Pool! Useful! Wait), no armor proficiency (but can add Cha to AC which I'm not sure is an upgrade or downgrade).
Basically, they get a bunch of garbage in exchange for having a better designed Code.
|
Really like what? i have been looking forward to a non "shining knight" pally for a while...Pm me with it to avoid derailing if you would pleaseEnlightened paladin says it loses the paladin code restrictions.
You pay a hefty price for it though.
No Smite, no immunity to Fear (though gets immunity to a much much much rarer ability so you can punt Pugwampis all day I guess), no Detect Evil (instead they can sense people with a Ki Pool! Useful! Wait), no armor proficiency (but can add Cha to AC which I'm not sure is an upgrade or downgrade).
Basically, they get a bunch of garbage in exchange for having a better designed Code.
CHA to AC is interesting, especially if it Stacks with Lunar Oracle and Arshea's boon.
Off topic but is there a paladin archetype that breaks them out of the alignment straightjacket?No. Unless you count Antipaladin.
Even he has restrictions.
Really like what? i have been looking forward to a non "shining knight" pally for a while...Pm me with it to avoid derailing if you would pleaseEnlightened paladin says it loses the paladin code restrictions.
You pay a hefty price for it though.
Warpriest, from the Advanced Class Guide Playtest, makes pretty decent paladins in all the colors of the rainbow.
|
Really like what? i have been looking forward to a non "shining knight" pally for a while...Pm me with it to avoid derailing if you would pleaseEnlightened paladin says it loses the paladin code restrictions.
You pay a hefty price for it though.
No Smite, no immunity to Fear (though gets immunity to a much much much rarer ability so you can punt Pugwampis all day I guess), no Detect Evil (instead they can sense people with a Ki Pool! Useful! Wait), no armor proficiency (but can add Cha to AC which I'm not sure is an upgrade or downgrade).
Basically, they get a bunch of garbage in exchange for having a better designed Code.
Can you tell me their code? do they have to be any alignment? do they get stuck with the fall-trap of the normal paladin?
Just search it on the SRD.
Really like what? i have been looking forward to a non "shining knight" pally for a while...Pm me with it to avoid derailing if you would pleaseEnlightened paladin says it loses the paladin code restrictions.
You pay a hefty price for it though.
No Smite, no immunity to Fear (though gets immunity to a much much much rarer ability so you can punt Pugwampis all day I guess), no Detect Evil (instead they can sense people with a Ki Pool! Useful! Wait), no armor proficiency (but can add Cha to AC which I'm not sure is an upgrade or downgrade).
Basically, they get a bunch of garbage in exchange for having a better designed Code.
No armor proficiency? Every source I have seen so far says that they get light armor proficiency and can use that Cha to AC trick while wearing light armor. Are those sources wrong?
They get light armor, but here's theEnlightened Paladin. Now you can check it out yourself.
|
|
They get light armor, but here's theEnlightened Paladin. Now you can check it out yourself.
Yeah i read it, it simply makes mention of different code, never says anything about alignment. these are not the same as the book obviously so i am asking for one that HAS the book for an official answer
They get light armor, but here's theEnlightened Paladin. Now you can check it out yourself.Yeah i read it, it simply makes mention of different code, never says anything about alignment. these are not the same as the book obviously so i am asking for one that HAS the book for an official answer
Why are they "obviously" not the same as the book?
|
|
Why are they "obviously" not the same as the book?They get light armor, but here's theEnlightened Paladin. Now you can check it out yourself.Yeah i read it, it simply makes mention of different code, never says anything about alignment. these are not the same as the book obviously so i am asking for one that HAS the book for an official answer
The wording is different in several passages. I do not have ISC to compare it so i am asking some one that has the book to confirm, not someone to tell me to look at another web site that doesn't say.
Basically it's a Champion of Irori from level one that trades Smite Chaos for a challenge ability.
True, seems to be a Monk/Paladin base class.
what the heck kind of action is it to use spirit combat?
Ooooh Shiny. And at least the Learned Duelist is trying something with vital strike I guess. And giving the fighter half a reason to invest in intelligence so he can have some skills.
I wonder how an Enlightened Paladin/Quingong Monk into champion of the Irori with a dip into Lunar Oracle (for the ability to replace Dex with Cha for AC and reflex saves) would turn out... It helps make the monk a bit less mad since you can choose to use Cha for Ki Pool now since the Pally gets Cha-based Ki-Pool.
Herp Derp, nevermind. Forgot you need smite for Champion :P
Ooooh Shiny. And at least the Learned Duelist is trying something with vital strike I guess. And giving the fighter half a reason to invest in intelligence so he can have some skills.It's bad that comes at lvl9. Like, really, really bad. It's shoddy design to have a class start using an ability score 9 freaking levels in.
If only you could combine it with Lore Warden. As is it only combines with trench fighter and dervish...
Yes. Really really bad is the appropriate term. It's interesting at the most and I would never even begin to consider playing one unless I was starting at level 9.
I really want to like Lightning Finish, but the action economy @_@
True...that AC though.. that AC would look STUPID fast xD
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just realized that the Enlightened Paladin can only use Divine Bond to enhance their unarmed strike, and when you use Divine Bond on a weapon, it glows like a torch. That means when you use divine bond, your body glows.
You can finally make Bruce Leeroy from The Last Dragon!
Or you can flavor it as going Super-Saiyan xD
it is there any hamatulastsu style feat in the book?
Yeah i think i might just try saying that personal challenge and the ac thing counts as smite evil for the purposes of prerequisites. Not sure if it would be a problem with CoI, but i doubt it.
This archetypes seem cool...the fighters archetypes by the other hand are just sad :(
I can already imagine the snickers around the gaming table when I announce that my Iroran Paladin is activating his or her "divine body".
You can finally make Bruce Leeroy from The Last Dragon!
Sho 'Nuff!