Monk1 / DruidX details help please


Advice


The idea is 1 level of monk for the save bonuses, extra feat, and wis to ac, then spend the rest of the career as a druid. Will be focusing on utility and battlefield control with some minor healing. Probably not a lot of summons, I have a different character for that.

Race: Dwarf is nice but Undine in combo with Menhir Savant could be fun

Monk level: Martial Artist is nice so I don't have to be LN, but MoMS could be fun. Though I have no idea what style to pick.

Druid: Straight druid is not bad, I have had success with a similar build to this one using Storm Druid before, Menhir Savant combos well with Undine to cast water spells at +2 CL. Archetype here must not interfere with wild shaping, I plan on spending most of my time after hitting level 9 wildshaped.

Feats:
lv 1: no idea
lv 3: no idea
lv 5: Natural Spell
lv 7: Wild Speech
lv9+: no idea

Grand Lodge

What do you want to do with your druid. There are generally 3 main druid roles: control mage, summoner, Wild shape melee bruiser, or some hybrid thereof.

If you want to go monk, you are best suited going wild shape or wild shape/summoner hybrid.
The summoner and caster need their full spell progression to have the highest impact. Yes the monk gives defenses, but having a higher spell level is it's own defense.

For the bruiser, a shaman archetype is generally the best (Saurian and Lion by far surpass the others). For sheer versatility, I like to hybrid Summoner/Wild Shape since the Shamans get standard action summons which are huge. This is also where the monk dip would fit in, since the Wild Shape bruiser is going to be in melee and needs those defenses. And, while this is a gray rules zone, there are many who argue that the monk AC bonus works even w/ wild armor in wild shape. So you'll be dang near unhittable. For style with this build, definitely snake, or maybe Dragon if you decide to add more monk levels. Snake for the extra defense, while Dragon for offense. If you go Dragon, I suggest more levels in monk (and not MoMS) so you can flurry w/ more attacks. Take the feat that gives you half wild shape progression, take feral combat training, and flurry with a massive damage T-Rex bite.


Control mage, focusing on spells and pretty much eschewing direct attacks. I will almost certainly be taking the domain instead of the animal companion, for the extra spells per day.

One big reason I like the 1 level delay from the monk is because it means I get Natural Spell at the same level I get Wild shape. That, and all the Wis synergy.

Grand Lodge

Then I'd generally suggest you eschew the monk level. The wis synergy you refer to simply adds your wis to AC. That's like a sorcerer taking the lore oracle dip for the Cha to AC. It's nice, but it is vastly outclassed by the spell progression. It may feel lacking in the dead levels, but when you do get the earlier spell level it means a ton. And as a full caster, especially with the versatility of wild shape, I don't imagine you really getting into melee that much.

As for feats, again, summoning spells are versatile and powerful. A lot of the control spells are also from the conjuration school, so there is some synergy.

Sczarni

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Control mage, focusing on spells and pretty much eschewing direct attacks. I will almost certainly be taking the domain instead of the animal companion, for the extra spells per day.

One big reason I like the 1 level delay from the monk is because it means I get Natural Spell at the same level I get Wild shape. That, and all the Wis synergy.

If you're going any kind of Caster, I really don't ever recommend taking levels in any other class as that drops higher level spells from ever being reached.

Accept that you will be a glass cannon.


Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Control mage, focusing on spells and pretty much eschewing direct attacks. I will almost certainly be taking the domain instead of the animal companion, for the extra spells per day.

One big reason I like the 1 level delay from the monk is because it means I get Natural Spell at the same level I get Wild shape. That, and all the Wis synergy.

If you're going any kind of Caster, I really don't ever recommend taking levels in any other class as that drops higher level spells from ever being reached.

Accept that you will be a glass cannon.

Nope, not gonna accept that. My spells will still be on par with a sorcerer progression.


Take the monk level and grab the best Wild armor you can as soon as you can. Wildshape into smaller creatures, then cast barkskin. You now have a very nice Armor Class. :)

Improved Initiative, Dodge, and Toughness are all helpful feats too.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Control mage, focusing on spells and pretty much eschewing direct attacks. I will almost certainly be taking the domain instead of the animal companion, for the extra spells per day.

One big reason I like the 1 level delay from the monk is because it means I get Natural Spell at the same level I get Wild shape. That, and all the Wis synergy.

If you're going any kind of Caster, I really don't ever recommend taking levels in any other class as that drops higher level spells from ever being reached.

Accept that you will be a glass cannon.

Nope, not gonna accept that. My spells will still be on par with a sorcerer progression.

But you're not getting the spammability that is supposed to compensate sorcerers for delayed access. You need those spell slots because you have nothing else to do in combat.

Scarab Sages

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Control mage, focusing on spells and pretty much eschewing direct attacks. I will almost certainly be taking the domain instead of the animal companion, for the extra spells per day.

One big reason I like the 1 level delay from the monk is because it means I get Natural Spell at the same level I get Wild shape. That, and all the Wis synergy.

If you're going any kind of Caster, I really don't ever recommend taking levels in any other class as that drops higher level spells from ever being reached.

Accept that you will be a glass cannon.

Nope, not gonna accept that. My spells will still be on par with a sorcerer progression.

And magical knack will keep CL up, even if it doesn't help spell slots.

Go storm druid or urban druid for the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells and you feel like a sorcerer with a much more powerful bloodline.


If you want to go down the offensive druid spellcasting route then I would not take the monk level at the outset. I would get to around 5th level spells before picking it up for the added protection.

Menhir Savant is an excellent archetype. For race Samsaran is amazing as it lets you plunder the Druid, Paladin, Ranger and Inquisitor spell lists for useful stuff. A Menhir Savant boosting the caster level on their Holy Word spells can be very scary. Same with increasing the potency and duration of long duration buffs.

For feats you obviously want Natural Spell. Improved Initiative is crucial for any save or suck caster. Beyond that you are looking at a mixture of spell focus, sell penetration and metamagic feats. Persistent, Dazing and Quicken Spell are all excellent and they lead very nicely into Spell Perfection. I would also pick up a crafting feat.

Note there is some disagreement about whether or not using Wild enchantment armour and shield in wildshape would remove your Wisdom bonus to AC from the Monk. Check with your GM before bothering to invest in it.


Wasn't planning on doing armor period, thus the monk level


Wild armor melds with your form so you are no longer wearing it. Since your monk class features don't say "as long as you are getting an armor bonus" you're golden. That's how I'm reading it anyway. Makes sense to me.


Here's what I have so far

Undine
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 10
Beacon of Faith, TRAIT
Master of Many Styles, Menhir Savant

01 Mnk, FEAT, Snake Style
02 Drd, Oceans Subdomain
03 Drd, FEAT
04 Drd, +1 Wis
05 Drd, Natural Spell
06 Drd,
07 Drd, Wild Speech
08 Drd, +1 Wis
09 Drd, FEAT
10 Drd,
11 Drd, FEAT
12 Drd, +1 Wis
13 Drd, FEAT
14 Drd,
15 Drd, FEAT
16 Drd, +1 Wis
17 Drd, FEAT
18 Drd,
19 Drd, FEAT
20 Drd, +1 Wis

Still need some help with the first couple feats


If you hold off on going into Monk till third level you can grab Snake Style (3rd-level feat) & Snake Fang (MoMS bonus feat) at the same time...


Zonugal wrote:
If you hold off on going into Monk till third level you can grab Snake Style (3rd-level feat) & Snake Fang (MoMS bonus feat) at the same time...

Snake Fang isn't going to be much use for me since I'm not focusing on melee at all.

Although I do kind of want to get 2 style feats to take advantage of fuse styles an grab combat style master.


If you want to have thematic fun, since you're doing the snake style feats:
Serpent Shaman. Natural bonus to ac with totem transformation, you can still use ocean domain at the normal level.
Thematic /and/ affective!
I may be wrong... I prefer play over power...


♣♠Magic♦♥ wrote:

If you want to have thematic fun, since you're doing the snake style feats:

Serpent Shaman. Natural bonus to ac with totem transformation, you can still use ocean domain at the normal level.
Thematic /and/ affective!
I may be wrong... I prefer play over power...

I don't want to use the animal shamans because they delay access to wild shape


Just to wild shape other than your animal, I think.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Zonugal wrote:
If you hold off on going into Monk till third level you can grab Snake Style (3rd-level feat) & Snake Fang (MoMS bonus feat) at the same time...

Snake Fang isn't going to be much use for me since I'm not focusing on melee at all.

Although I do kind of want to get 2 style feats to take advantage of fuse styles an grab combat style master.

It works on ranged attacks too.

♣♠Magic♦♥ wrote:
Just to wild shape other than your animal, I think.

An FAQ states otherwise. Wildshape is delayed until 6th level for all Druid Shamans.


Oh.
Lame.
I like it less, but it's still what I would do personally.

Theme
-------
Power

And all that.

Grand Lodge

if you are only using your Monk levels for defense then go crane and turtle style

Grand Lodge

if you really want to take advantage of Wisdom to AC then instead of MoMs go flowing monk, take crane style then at the second level of monk you gain an AC for each opponent adjacent to you so if your ganged up on you get better. (it is also based on Wisdom)


Humphry B ManWitch wrote:
if you are only using your Monk levels for defense then go crane and turtle style

Crane's not going to help much because I'll be spending my standards on casting, so I can't fight defensively.


Crane Style isn't as good(read: actually useful) as it used to be anyway...


That too. Although I probably wouldn't get more than just the style anyway, so the crane wing nerf is avoidable. I could go snake and snapping turtle, but if I wanted a +1 to AC then dodge is better.


Zen archer monk for a level might be good. I think that could work with a druid.

I'm running a defence/travel cleric with a single level of monk. High wiz and barkskin is great with a bit of dodge and toughness to bulk up the defence.

The zen archer comes in handy when you run out of spells and you're still in the fight. If you are points buy then 14 in strength, dex, wiz, con unless you are going to go negative in cha. It might be worth sticking with monk til lvl 3 so you can add wiz to your attacks.


I think I'm gonna go with this

build:
Undine
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 10
Beacon of Faith, Reactionary

01 Drd, Menhir Savant, Oceans Subdomain, Improved Initiative
02 Drd
03 Drd, Craft Wondrous Item
04 Mnk, MoMS, Snake Style, +1 Wis
05 Drd, Natural Spell
06 Drd,
07 Drd, Wild Speech
08 Drd, +1 Wis
09+ Druid levels, more Wis boosts, feats I will figure out when I get there

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