(fun) what monster would you eliminate if you could from PFS?


Pathfinder Society

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Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Griffin Rider wrote:
A for advancing creatures. The advancing rules are seriously broken, and have been since the beginning of 3.5. It is much too easy to remove the weaknesses from a creature with a very small impact on CR.

Heh, the Young template on certain creatures.

Seriously, this template is supposed to make the creature easier, not harder, but if it is used on a high Dex, Finesse based creature, it gets uglier.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Out of character, H for Harpies. Shadows are deadly, and I'd like to see less of them, too, but I've never seen an encounter with Harpies that didn't result in a rules discussion. There are too many FAQ worthy questions with them, and a disagreement between the players and the GM on how Harpy song works can lead to a TPK. All of these have been discussed elsewhere, at length, with no definitive answer. I'm not trying to start another discussion. I'm just pointing out how many things there are that could result in one at the table and grind a game to a halt, because death is almost always on the line.

1) Is someone helpless against the Harpy whose song they fail their save against? (Had this one result in a CdG prior to the clarification the CdG should only be employed when it's in the tactics or there's not another obvious option)
2) If a character passes through a Silence while under the effects of Harpy song, but they don't end their turn in the Silence, does that count for breaking the effect of the song? (Had this one come up and almost result in two deaths, but the GM decided to side with the players)
3) Players don't realize that the effects of a Harpy's song continue for one round after the character stops hearing the song, so even if you get the character into a Silence or deafen them or stop the Harpy singing, the character will still spend one more round walking toward death or standing there getting attacked.
4-Whatever) See all the issues with Protection from Evil and Clear Spindle Ioun Stones. Unless you ask before every game, you never know if a GM will rule that Protection from Evil works against Harpy Song or not. On the one hand, it's a (EDIT) Mind-Effecting Enchantment (Charm) from an Evil source, on the other, it has been argued that it doesn't exhibit "puppet-like control," the unfortunate phrasing in the FAQ on Protection from Evil. I've also had very high star GMs tell me PfE doesn't work because it only works against Compulsions, which is not correct. It's just an extremely misunderstood and subject to table variation spell in combination with an already subject to table variation ability, and a misunderstanding between player and GM is likely to lead to a character death. I try to make sure to ask before the game if I'm playing with a GM I'm unfamiliar with to avoid running into an issue in the middle of combat, because you never know when a Harpy might show up.

In character, H for Harpies, because one death and being charmed two other times and nearly killed is enough to drive someone to hatred of a monster (All that despite Will being his best save). Ferious is currently in the process of identifying the best location in Varisia to open his new Pathfinder Lodge from which to launch a campaign against the Harpies of the region. He plans to hand out earplugs at every mission briefing and follow that with:

"Wear them always, for by the time you hear the Harpy's sweet song, it is already too late. And this," as he holds up a shaped rock, "is a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone. Place it in your Wayfinder, and it may offer you protection from the evil that is the Harpy's song... However it is unreliable and subject to the whims of the gods. Still, some chance at negating the effect is better than none. I suggest you commune with whatever deity you worship before you disembark to see which way the wind is blowing on this day, for an unexpected failure of the magic could hasten your trip to Pharasma's Boneyard. And remember, keep watching the skies..."

Scarab Sages 4/5

Though I could be convinced to go with Murder Hobo as well.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Mmm...young greater shadows...

5/5

Creature: D for all Darkfolk, they ruin scenarios.

Template: Y for Young; -1 CR my ass. Most Young creatures should have +1 CR.

1/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Jeez, so much hate for Shadows. My very first PFS game (1-2 level adventure) had a shadow that brought the entire game to a standstill, crit a boon-invested PC, and nearly caused half the party to walk away from the table. I knew they were annoying, but I didn't think there was such a consensus on it.

I never understand why ability damage can crit, and it especially makes little sense why an incorporeal can critically strike with a non-physical attack.

5/5

Cyrad:
Cyrad wrote:
I never understand why ability damage can crit, and it especially makes little sense why an incorporeal can critically strike with a non-physical attack.

Um.. it can't. At least as far as I'm concerned. There's some exceptions (usually saying "do 1 point of permanent drain instead of damage").

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I was thinking shadows even before I read the rest of this thread. A shadow's defenses are nearly impenetrable for the low-level characters most likely to encounter them. Plus, nobody can really afford STR damage. The characters with a lot of strength need it to do their thing; the characters without a lot of strength just die and become shadows.

Caryatid columns are a close second. Unbeatable DR plus breaking your weapons plus spell immunity = frustrating, expensive, and dangerous. Caryatid columns are the new rust monsters.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Majuba wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Spells that do ability damage or drain multiply on a crit, so I don't see why normal attacks that do so wouldn't also.
Shadow Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Jeff Merola wrote:
Majuba wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **


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Doesn't come up a ton but mummy, at least at its challenge rating. I had a single mummy tpk because of its despair paralysis. The party was level 7's. I like the mummy, its classic, that said it has a completely different CR if not faced by a paladin or cleric.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Its not a monster, but I would nerfbat the blanket immunity from mental domination effects of Protection from Evil to a +2 bonus to the saves.

Silver Crusade

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Swarms.

I would replace every swarm with an invulnerable goblin that randomly pops out yelling "AoE check!" until the party gives him their alchemists' fires.

Functionally, nothing would change, and we would get a goblin in every scenario. Everyone wins.

Grand Lodge

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E for every monster placed somewhere it doesn't make sense at all or is GMed in a way that doesn't make sense at all

N for no monster at all if placed sensible and GMed in a great way

I can only recommend Misfit Monsters Redeemed. I felt wow - these monsters here are some I would likely never use but reading it gives me ideas how to play them, place them, ensure they make sense.

Scarab Sages

Hrothdane wrote:

Swarms.

...

especially fire resistant or fire immnue swarms or those pesky ooze or incorporeal swarms

Silver Crusade

Harpies do spawn a lot of arguments. I don't let clear spindle ioun stone affect their song, but I'm generous in other grey areas. Because dying to them is not epic or exciting at all. Just lame.

Shadow Lodge

I'd go with either Golems (and similar constructs) or Template Creatures.

Golems tend to be rare enough that parties might not have a means to overcome their DR, but not common enough to view that as a must buy until you can afford to throw away some money much later on.

Template Creatures tend to create unforeseen issues, sometime becoming stronger when they are meant to be weaker or vice versa. Alternatively, I've been in more than one game where the DM made an honest mistake trying to do a fast on the pot conversion.

Silver Crusade

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S is for spiders just... make them go away.

*hides*


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A is for Aram Zey.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver aka roll4initiative

I religiously played Angband for a long time (still do, kinda, with the app). But, anyway, I agree with DM Beckett. Golems are a pain. Don't put them in low tier scenarios.

"Farmer Maggot asks for his mushrooms back."

Sorry, had to do that.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The Rogue-like is strong in this thread.

Dark Archive

C is for Caryatid columns. A creature immune to magic yet no melee wants to hit for fear of their precious weapons so it ends up being "Lets cast Create Pit on them and shoot them to death for 10 rounds."

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

Mi-go.

Dark Archive

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I've already seen two posts for Haunts, so I'll add a third - haunts!

That said, I don't really want to see them completely removed; just revisited. I like the philosophy but I am not sure if the mechanic is really working.

Shadow Lodge

I like haunts, especially with a good DM that understands them. That being said, I do think they could be revisited.

A simple fix might be to have them begin to visually and vocally activate immediately in the Surprise round, but not be able to act until Init 0 of the first full combat round, (and thereafter if it applies), instead of on Init 10 of the Surprise Round.

The main problem I've seen with Haunts in PFS is that half the time, none of the Players ever realize it's a Haunt or when they do, there is literally nothing they can do about it with the exception of Channel Energy. It's the Surprise round that kills the fun of a Haunt Encounter, as you can not draw and then also use a Holy Water or Cast a Cure Spell/Wand and then move to Touch.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Yep, haunts as a mechanic are kinda neat. The individual haunts that tend to get used in PFS scenarios are just traps that you're not allowed to disable or bypass or avoid or anything else.

The Exchange 5/5

Jiggy wrote:
Yep, haunts as a mechanic are kinda neat. The individual haunts that tend to get used in PFS scenarios are just traps that you're not allowed to disable or bypass or avoid or anything else.

or detect. The detect issue is my problem with them (yes, you can detect them with detect undead and maybe detect evil depending on the judge - but who the heck carries that?

Grand Lodge

nosig wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Yep, haunts as a mechanic are kinda neat. The individual haunts that tend to get used in PFS scenarios are just traps that you're not allowed to disable or bypass or avoid or anything else.
or detect. The detect issue is my problem with them (yes, you can detect them with detect undead and maybe detect evil depending on the judge - but who the heck carries that?

My menhir savant with spirit sense. :)

Grand Lodge

Just dont get rid of things that I can swallow characters whole with!

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Mergy wrote:
If the campaign has magic item rules that are different from the high-magic expectation that the Core Rulebook sets forth (WBL and city-based magic item purchases) then of course inherent darkvision becomes more powerful. Luckily, it's pretty easy to ask your GM about house rules prior to starting.

Its not a house rule its a campaign setting. You could also be in the middle of the mawangi etc. or...

Quote:
At level 3, having a scroll with two castings of darkvision is a tenth of WBL.

In two of paizos adventure paths so far (carrion crown and Skull and shackles) I've felt like i was playing Firefly: fantasy eddition. Our characters are freaking broke

Quote:
I get your argument that having darkvision by default is preferable. However, I don't see a lack of human rogues out there.

But you do see them, and they're not supposed to! :)

Every human rogue i've seen hasn't taken lighting into account. All. of.them. I've had to explain that stealth isn't invisibility, and even if you stand on the edge of the light the goblin just launches their spear at a different adventurer because you can't hide a torch in the darkness.

Quote:
If your next argument is regarding the bonus feat, I would spend a feat on +1 to AC and attack rolls.

Nah, not a big fan of humans usually.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Mergy wrote:
If the campaign has magic item rules that are different from the high-magic expectation that the Core Rulebook sets forth (WBL and city-based magic item purchases) then of course inherent darkvision becomes more powerful. Luckily, it's pretty easy to ask your GM about house rules prior to starting.

Its not a house rule its a campaign setting. You could also be in the middle of the mawangi etc. or...

Quote:
At level 3, having a scroll with two castings of darkvision is a tenth of WBL.

In two of paizos adventure paths so far (carrion crown and Skull and shackles) I've felt like i was playing Firefly: fantasy eddition. Our characters are freaking broke

Quote:
I get your argument that having darkvision by default is preferable. However, I don't see a lack of human rogues out there.

But you do see them, and they're not supposed to! :)

Every human rogue i've seen hasn't taken lighting into account. All. of.them. I've had to explain that stealth isn't invisibility, and even if you stand on the edge of the light the goblin just launches their spear at a different adventurer because you can't hide a torch in the darkness.

Quote:
If your next argument is regarding the bonus feat, I would spend a feat on +1 to AC and attack rolls.

Nah, not a big fan of humans usually.

Until I took HellCat Stealth I would normally rely on potions of Darkvision when I needed to work in the dark... or scrolls.

After I got Hellcat Stealth I just took to hiding in the parties light source - often when there's an Aasimar in the party, I just hide in the daylight.... most creatures never see anything except the knife... often they never see that

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I've looked at the sanctioned AP chronicles and it's crazy how wealthy Pathfinders ard in comparison to regular AP heroes. And that's not all there is to wbl either - it's about access as well. Being able to just unload at the Skyreach pawn shop and get, for instance, a stat-increasing item of your choice is a real luxury. I distinctly remember the simian hellspawn we had to murder for ours in Serpent's Skull. And the closest magic mart was in freaking Kibwe, in the freaking Mwangi Expanse.("In a hole, with an owl!")

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