Erylium's magic dagger.How to dispose of it ? (spoilers)


Rise of the Runelords


Yesterday my party cleared the catacombs of wrath under Sandpoint, and they were excited when they looted Erylium's body, cause she has a +1 cold iron returning dagger, but it is sized for a quasit (tiny) so none of the pc's is going to use it, and the town's market is too small to afford its cost, about 10300 gp.
I guess they can always wait until they are in Magnimar, but would ike to know what other partied did with the weapon.


Pretty much that. Magnimar. On foot it's 2 days there and 2 days back. By boat it's even faster.

Most parties wait until they're sure they have a few days of down time, and then use it as an excuse for a shopping spree in Magnimar.

But check with your GM. Is he/she the type that will let you know (either by clues or directly) that you have a few days, or that will spring something on you for taking down time at the wrong time?

I won't spoiler anything by saying that every AP I've run or played has "good" and "bad" times for downtime. As a GM, I try to give clues like, "Well, as far as you know, you're all set at the moment. Is there anything you'd like to do?" or, alternatively, "Er, you found this note that the harpies are attacking at dawn at some point this week. Are you sure you want to spend two weeks crafting that?"

Long story short: Sell it in Magnimar, but be sensible on when you do it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

One of my players came up with the bright idea of using it as an arrow-head. Even though it specifies that the Returning property is only for thrown weapons, I allowed this — partly because he could only use it once per round, and also because it was just such a novel idea.

So, every round, his arrow would dig itself out of his target, and sail across the room back to his hand, ready to be fired again.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In my game the rogue is sitting on it like a fat nesting bird... all glee and greed about the weapon but he has yet to use it once! 5000gp cash...

I second the idea of selling it in Magnimar. If you're afraid to loose 4-5 days you could always comission somebody from Sandpoint (Savah springs to mind) to sell it via their channels in Magnimar.

Ruyan.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

My group kept it. The halfling cleric sometimes uses it.


I allow most magic items to automatically resize to their owners so that the PCs can choose to use or sell the item as they see fit. My party's Rogue took the dagger and has been using it as a throwing weapon / off-hand weapon ever since. It wasn't a huge problem given the amount of wealth the party's been able to accumulate.


OK thanks. The party's rogue already said he doesn't want to use it,and since they also got Koruvus' +1 longsword and Tsuto's ring of protection +1 the cavalier and barbarian are good.
Will see to sell it once in Magnimar, they are heading to Thisteltop now so they'll have to wait until chapter two anyway.


Gandal wrote:

Yesterday my party cleared the catacombs of wrath under Sandpoint, and they were excited when they looted Erylium's body, cause she has a +1 cold iron returning dagger, but it is sized for a quasit (tiny) so none of the pc's is going to use it, and the town's market is too small to afford its cost, about 10300 gp.

I guess they can always wait until they are in Magnimar, but would ike to know what other partied did with the weapon.

I'm I wrong, or the rules of selling treasures strongly advice GM to assume, that shopkeepers are willing to buy something for half of it's cost? Purchase limit of a settlement also states, that this is the limit of money, that a shop, not all of them, can spend on buying stuff from PC's.

My players sold it to the owner of The Feathered Serpent, if i remember correct. By the description, the guy has a sort of magic item shop/collection.


Sandpoint is a town the size of like, a handful of football fields.

No shop in town has 5000gp to spend on anything.


Ashkar wrote:
Gandal wrote:

Yesterday my party cleared the catacombs of wrath under Sandpoint, and they were excited when they looted Erylium's body, cause she has a +1 cold iron returning dagger, but it is sized for a quasit (tiny) so none of the pc's is going to use it, and the town's market is too small to afford its cost, about 10300 gp.

I guess they can always wait until they are in Magnimar, but would ike to know what other partied did with the weapon.

I'm I wrong, or the rules of selling treasures strongly advice GM to assume, that shopkeepers are willing to buy something for half of it's cost? Purchase limit of a settlement also states, that this is the limit of money, that a shop, not all of them, can spend on buying stuff from PC's.

My players sold it to the owner of The Feathered Serpent, if i remember correct. By the description, the guy has a sort of magic item shop/collection.

I am just starting to run a campaign of this and I am wondering this myself. Normally, an item like this could be sold, but without some way to resize the item I find it hard to imagine who would buy it. After all, the characters only really have Sandpoint and Magnimar as frequent points to sell things, and tiny humanoids do not frequent these areas much. I have a hard time imagining that a merchant in Magnimar would be willing to pay the same amount for this as for a small or medium sized one that his customers could actually use, unless there were also some way for the merchant to resize the dagger. I am thinking of adding some other treasure to make up for this.

Peet


Peet wrote:


I am just starting to run a campaign of this and I am wondering this myself. Normally, an item like this could be sold, but without some way to resize the item I find it hard to imagine who would buy it. After all, the characters only really have Sandpoint and Magnimar as frequent points to sell things, and tiny humanoids do not frequent these areas much. I have a hard time imagining that a merchant in Magnimar would be willing to pay the same amount for this as for a small or medium sized one that his customers could actually use, unless there were also some way for the merchant to resize the dagger. I am thinking of adding some other treasure to make up for this.

Peet

My problem, exactly.

Maybe The Feathered Serpent could buy it,but Sandpoint is too small anyway to allow the PCs to sell the item without coming with own sub-plot explaining where the town found the funds,and no one is going to use the dagger anyway.
Yes i know it sells for about 5200 gp but still.....maybe the PCs could ask to trade the dagger (half cost) for one of the shop's other items (even at full price it is supposed to sell items for a lvl 3 party's WBL) but remains the problem that the owner won't probably sell it anytime soon or use it.


It's funny, but it seems like Sandpoint shops, in my game, were able to afford buying almost all the (found) treasure from Burned Offerings.)
Gold stuff and jewelry went to the jeweler, weapons and armor to Savah, and some magic/old-curios-Thassilion stuff to the Serpents owner/director of Turandarok Academy/Quink. Of course there was a lot of bargain, for rising the price back to the half-price mark (remember, that buyer starts with a lower price - in case of Elyrium's dagger around 3000 gp, not 5200). But in the end, how many adventurers where in SP before? SP is a fast growing town (1200 citizens in 50 years, that's fast), with good economy. I assumed, that they (shop owners, not the city administration) had money. Collectors, like the one in Serpent or director Turandarok Academy, may have even deeper pockets.


Gandal wrote:
Peet wrote:


I am just starting to run a campaign of this and I am wondering this myself. Normally, an item like this could be sold, but without some way to resize the item I find it hard to imagine who would buy it. After all, the characters only really have Sandpoint and Magnimar as frequent points to sell things, and tiny humanoids do not frequent these areas much. I have a hard time imagining that a merchant in Magnimar would be willing to pay the same amount for this as for a small or medium sized one that his customers could actually use, unless there were also some way for the merchant to resize the dagger. I am thinking of adding some other treasure to make up for this.

Peet

My problem, exactly.

Maybe The Feathered Serpent could buy it,but Sandpoint is too small anyway to allow the PCs to sell the item without coming with own sub-plot explaining where the town found the funds,and no one is going to use the dagger anyway.
Yes i know it sells for about 5200 gp but still.....maybe the PCs could ask to trade the dagger (half cost) for one of the shop's other items (even at full price it is supposed to sell items for a lvl 3 party's WBL) but remains the problem that the owner won't probably sell it anytime soon or use it.

I'm okay with kind of hand-waving the purchase limit of a town like Sandpoint because its so near the larger metropolis of Mangimar. I've had PC's sell magic items through the Feathered Serpent, the proprietor of which acted as a go-between with contacts in Mangimar and elsewhere, taking a small percentage as his fee of course, and I've had Brodert Quink put the PC's in touch with a couple of wealthy collectors of Thassilonian artifacts there as well. The PC's may have to wait a little while for the deal to come through and for them to get their pay-off, but it makes for an effective way to 1) tie the PC's to various NPC's in Sandpoint, 2) open up contacts for the in Mangimar and 3) get gear sold that Sandpoint might otherwise not be able to support.


I made the dagger small instead of tiny. I thought the weapon was too much fun to have it effectively unusable by the PCs.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I let my party sell it in Sandpoint, but at a lower amount. After all, since it was Tiny, it was worth more as a curiosity than a weapon. At the time, they didn't want to take the time to rush off to Magnimar when Nualia could be coming to Sandpoint at any time.


I allowed my party to 'trade' it for the +1 repeating crossbow in the blacksmith's shop, with the argument that she could get a magic item she cant sell off her hands for one that is worth more and she might have a chance to sell.

Our Alchemist uses it with much glee

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My party gave the dagger to Yap the pixie from chapter 3. He follows them around sort of like the pixie from Berserk. So now he plays around with the returning dagger.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Askren wrote:

Sandpoint is a town the size of like, a handful of football fields.

No shop in town has 5000gp to spend on anything.

As listed Sandpoint has a buy limit of 7,000 gp, so it is certainly "legal" that a merchant there could give the players the full 5,200 gp for it. My issue is that why would they? It is not the kind of thing that they would ever expect to be able to sell again.

If Polymorph any Object were houseruled so that it could be used to change the size of a magic item (but not any of its other properties) then it becomes more reasonable to assume that someone might buy it, but hiring a caster to cast Polymorph any Object would cost the merchant 1200 gp, so the amount the players would get would be reduced by at least this much. Not to mention that Polymorph any Object is an 8th level spell and such a high level spellcasting cannot be bought in Magnimar or Sandpoint (Magnimar can do up to 7th).

A scroll of Polymorph any Object would cost 3000, and with an appropriate caster trying to use it that would work, but now the players are only getting about 2000 gp for the dagger.

Peet

Lantern Lodge

The problems with this dagger are 1) its ludicrously high retail value, such that it's kind of a problem to sell; and 2) the fact that no adventurer can use it. A Tiny light weapon gets shifted off the scale even for Small adventurers. I personally would rule that a Small adventurer can throw it but not wield it in melee, but I have no rules support for this position (and it's a moot point anyway, all of my PCs are Medium).

So the PCs probably want to sell it, but they're unlikely to find a decent buyer in Sandpoint, they're unlikely to have the time for a trip to Magnimar themselves, and they're unlikely to trust anyone in Sandpoint enough to act as their agent for a sale that valuable (except maybe Sheriff Hemlock, who has already left for Magnimar by the time the PCs find Erylium).

I was previously wondering why it was cold iron (since all that accomplishes is make it more dangerous for Erylium), but another thread pointed out that Erylium actually needs it to be able to injure herself so she can summon sinspawn. So that answers that!


Gnome + reduce person saw tge dagger used for most of the adventure.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I hear Windsong Abbey has a standing bounty on all evil magic stuff on the market. They'll buy it and dispose of it and pay fair market value to whomever turns it in. I think they are also starting an outreach program in Sandpoint and Magnimar, where representatives of the local churches can make the exchange for you, and pay in gold or scrip.

Just a rumor. Maybe.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

just have it re-size, tho i always have at least 1-4 small players anyway:) in jade regent tallest pc is 5 feet even:)


My group just waited until they had some downtime, and when they did, they paid for some stuff to go to and from Magnimar with a caravan (I used Sandru from Jade Regent for that).

Treasures (dagger included) go out, fancy Magnimarian magic items come back.


One of the PC's traded it at the Feathered Serpent for a +2 Cloak of Resistance. They knew at the time that they were technically getting a bad deal, but in their minds they were trading something they couldn't use for something they could which made it worthwhile.

We're not super strict on such things as gp costs or WBL, but my players all manage to end up satisfied with the gear the receive, one way or another.


We are done with Nualia last session. They are discussing whether or not finishing the reamining rooms in Thistletop lvl 3.
Then they will have downtime before Skinsaw murders and i told them they can sell it in Magnimar, so they are waiting to be there.


Actually, it's cost is 2 (for the dagger) 300 (for masterwork) 2000 (for cold iron) 2000 (for being cold iron which is enchanted) 8000 (for the weapon enchants, for 12,302. Correct?

I gave them 1/4 of the value instead of 1/2 because it's tiny. So they got about 3000 gold for the dagger.


TyrKnight wrote:

Actually, it's cost is 2 (for the dagger) 300 (for masterwork) 2000 (for cold iron) 2000 (for being cold iron which is enchanted) 8000 (for the weapon enchants, for 12,302. Correct?

I gave them 1/4 of the value instead of 1/2 because it's tiny. So they got about 3000 gold for the dagger.

No; cold iron only doubles the cost.

So 2 for the dagger, 300 for masterwork, 2 for cold iron, 2000 for enchanted cold iron, and 8000 for enchantments = 10,304.

Cold Iron: Effective against daemons, demons, and fey, cold iron has been drawn from deep beneath forbidding mountains and forged with the least heat possible. Because of the delicacy and difficulty of the process, a weapon made of cold iron costs twice as much to make, and every magical enhancement increases its price significantly. It has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.

"Twice as much to make" is obviously open to interpretation, but I'd guess everyone considers that twice base cost, not twice base plus masterwork.


Ah. Thanks. I misread that part then.


NobodysHome wrote:


No; cold iron only doubles the cost.

So 2 for the dagger, 300 for masterwork, 2 for cold iron, 2000 for enchanted cold iron, and 8000 for enchantments = 10,304.

Cold Iron: Effective against daemons, demons, and fey, cold iron has been drawn from deep beneath forbidding mountains and forged with the least heat possible. Because of the delicacy and difficulty of the process, a weapon made of cold iron costs twice as much to make, and every magical enhancement increases its price significantly. It has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.

"Twice as much to make" is obviously open to interpretation, but I'd guess everyone considers that twice base cost, not twice base plus masterwork.

I got the same results from Herolab.


I am dropping the sale value by 50% in my game to reflect its basic lack of utility (so they can get 2576 gp for it), but I am also adding other treasure in the dungeon to make up for it, of about the same value. I added a room that was an old armory (which is where the sinspawn have been getting their ranseurs) with some half decent stuff and some gems in the eyes of a statue.

Peet


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

All through RotRL I allowed my characters to sell off non-standard sized weapons & armor in Magnimar for a reduced rate. The tiny dagger sold for 25% of its value. What shopkeeper is going to give high return on equipment that isn't useful to the vast majority of his customers? Same with the large and huge weapons in books 4 and 5. Now they did keep some of the odd sized gear to put in their trophy room at Foxglove Manor (seems the original deed was vacated by the government. Something about being tied to a group plotting to kill the Lord-Mayor...)


We found a merchant in Magnimar with contacts in Korvosa and pointed out that one of those rich students down that way might want it for his familiar.

In order to circumvent future issues like this, my GM is allowing me to create a spell that allows my wizard to break down magic items to use as materials for making new ones. It might be worth having a crafter in town who can do the same.

Silver Crusade

As the GM for my campaign, I just let them sell this one item, under the assumption that the merchants in Sandpoint are in regular contact with Magnimar, so it would be sent there for resale immediately. It's within the town's buying limit according to the rules (barely). I did warn them that they wouldn't be able to sell such valuable items in Sandpoint very often, though, so they might need to make a trip to Magnimar next time. It just seemed simplest to keep the story moving, and let them use it to buy some gear before heading to Thistletop.


I don't really think it especially matters whether the dagger can be sold in Magnimar or not; it's only a two day walk away so if the party wants to sell it there they could. But even assuming someone wants it for their familiar (and this doesn't require going to Korvosa; there are plenty of people in Magnimar with familiars) it is still an outside shot at best.

If you have a familiar who can use a dagger that familiar can probably use a wand of magic missile too. Which would you buy? A wand that does 2-5 damage 50 times without rolling to hit for 750 gp? Or a dagger that does 1-2 damage but you have to hit with it for 10,304 gp?

RAW the dagger will sell for 5152 gp in Sandpoint and if you want to let people do that then that's fine. I just couldn't see it so I lowered the sell value and added some other treasure to make up for it.

Peet


Peet wrote:
I don't really think it especially matters whether the dagger can be sold in Magnimar or not; it's only a two day walk away so if the party wants to sell it there they could. But even assuming someone wants it for their familiar (and this doesn't require going to Korvosa; there are plenty of people in Magnimar with familiars) it is still an outside shot at best.

Sure, you don't have to have it go to Korvosa, it just seemed that with all the Imps, it would make sense for it to be more likely that someone there would have the funds and the silliness to do so.


We just started "The Skinsaw Murders" so it is a matter of another one or two sessions before Magnimar and finally getting rid of it.
I read, by RAW, Sandpoint COULD barely afford its cost but just because it can't be used by any "normal" adventurer i said no merchant in Sandpoint will be willing to by it.


You know, as far as finding a buyer goes, it's not much of a stretch to say that this dagger is of thassilonian manufacture, and I know someone who would mortgage himself to the hilt/sell his first born child to get hold of it...and there's no saying what kind of resources he has from research grants from nobles trying to get a tax break or an extensive trust fund that means he doesn't have to get a proper job.

Just a thought.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

My rule was that Small and Medium sized equipment sell for 50% base price; items larger or smaller than that sell for 25%.

When I ran Burnt Offerings, I was using the original 3.5 version. (The AE hadn't come out yet). If I recall correctly, in that version, the dagger wasn't returning.

Lantern Lodge

Gandal wrote:

Yesterday my party cleared the catacombs of wrath under Sandpoint, and they were excited when they looted Erylium's body, cause she has a +1 cold iron returning dagger, but it is sized for a quasit (tiny) so none of the pc's is going to use it, and the town's market is too small to afford its cost, about 10300 gp.

I guess they can always wait until they are in Magnimar, but would ike to know what other partied did with the weapon.

in the Inner sea gods there's an item called 'Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers' the effect is listed as:

"The metal filings within this pouch are a mixture of adamantine, cold iron, mithral, and steel. The filings are faintly magnetic and stick to ferrous metal but are easily wiped away. If a metal or partly metal weapon is covered in the entire contents of the pouch and placed in a hot forge overnight, it slowly grows or shrinks by one size category toward the size of the creature who applied the powder. For example, a Small +1 longsword coated with the filings by a Medium creature transforms into a Medium +1 longsword. This transformation is permanent. The pouch contains enough material to transform one weapon, regardless of size."
they cost 1000GP and could be an easy answer to the dilemma, by either 1 or 2 bags depending on who wants to use it and pay the blacksmith to use his forge


The dagger by rules is worth a huge amount of money (5152gp!), the big question is whether you want your players to get that much cash this early. If players decide to split the cash it's a very nice 1288gp each but at level 2 that lets them buy a wand each or +1 armour ~ to me that seems a bit too early?

Personally I've been reducing the treasure in RotRL because my players have been outright steamrolling encounters. I'm sure there are GMs seeing their players having lots of trouble and deciding they need the money.

Judgment call: Are your players having trouble beating encounters? If so sell at full price.


We were at the Foxglove mansion then i got a flu and had to stop for a couple of sessions.
The group is all lvl 6 and they still have to sell the dagger in magnimar, since i told them they could sell it there.
So in the end they are going to take the money much later after acquiring the knife.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A bit of threadomancy, but it is useful to note that in INNER SEA GODS there is a Gorum-themed magic item called Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers that costs 1000 gp and can be expended to change the size of a magic weapon or armor by 1 size category (only towards the size of the user though).

So it would only cost 1000 gp to change the size of a magic item which would be worth it in this case. If someone in the party could craft the slivers it would only cost 500 gp.

Peet

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Rise of the Runelords / Erylium's magic dagger.How to dispose of it ? (spoilers) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rise of the Runelords