How do you do Magitech?


Homebrew and House Rules

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Does science really need to be split from magic?

If you think about science is just a method of studying one's world. Thus if magic is part of the world, science would be looking at, and using, magic.

The basic idea of science is to create theories of how things work by way of repeatable experiments to test disprovable statements.

Technology is just one's knowledge (and the results of that knowledge) of how to craft and manipulate things to achieve particular effects. This would include magic as well.

In a world of magic, magic would be as much a part of science and technology as anything else.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Does science really need to be split from magic?

If you think about science is just a method of studying one's world. Thus if magic is part of the world, science would be looking at, and using, magic.

The basic idea of science is to create theories of how things work by way of repeatable experiments to test disprovable statements.

Technology is just one's knowledge (and the results of that knowledge) of how to craft and manipulate things to achieve particular effects. This would include magic as well.

In a world of magic, magic would be as much a part of science and technology as anything else.

Unlike science there IS no such thing as a universal definition of magic. One paradigm may indeed require where science flourishes, magic dies. Another may have them work together... Another may have both hardly working at all. It all depends on the flavor and atmosphere you're trying to impart. In Saberhagen's Books of Swords for instance, magic is greatly impaired if regular swords are drawn, much less used. And it stands not even a chance against science. On the other hand the great good god Ardneh simply stopped science from working and left the door open for magic. (at the time it seemed the only way to prevent a nuclear holocaust) In the process he created his archenemy, who in essence was a sentient explosion who'd never finished exploding because of Ardneh's Change.

By the way, if the definition of science was REALLY that simple, we would not have spent the last millennium and more arguing about it so much.


As a mystic, I view science and magic as 2 ways of viewing things. Compare Astrology and Astronomy. One tries to predict destiny by the visible lights in the sky, while the other is more concerned with what those objects are. In game Astrology could help you tell when and where aberrations might be able to break through.


Wow, totally missing things.

Science is not technology.

Science is a method of study and learning.

What you do with the gained knowledge has the potential to be technology.

Technology includes magic items (though common usage differs, indicating modern real life style of tech, which is actually just a particular style of tech.)

Shifting paradigms doesn't change that (one of the purposes of the the scientific method is to guard against that).

Science isn't something that works or doesn't. To achieve otherwise would require a sentient being with the power and desire to disrupt any and all experiments. The achievement of such is pointless unless you are trying to prevent mortals from rising above the stone age. (The scientific method isn't required to rise above the stone age, but neither does it hinder or help beyond that)

Science as applied to the mentioned books,
Scientist, "hmm, it seems drawing a weapon inhibits magic. Let us test this theory. I'll do some magic you draw a weapon and we'll record how the magic is affected." That is science.

Ardneh didn't stop science from working, he changed the laws of physics and that wouldn't affect science at all. The author probably just used the common usage of the term.

Astrology and astronomy aren't even related. Astrology is an attempt to understand events here on earth, while astronomy is an attempt to understand universal concepts as applied to that which is beyond earth.

Magic has many definitions, but not one is contradictory to science.

We don't argue about science, we argue about the results, theories, etc, that develop from science.


Cyrad wrote:


2) Magitech is ancient, mysterious technology
Inspired by Numenera and Outlaw Star, this approach to magitech involves the technology originating from ancient, lost civilizations...

I get that we're all required under threat of banishment from all RPGs ever if we don't all mindlessly worship Monte Cooke, but must we all be forced to slavishly attribute to him as completely his original work, plot devices that even hacks such as Terry Brooks were coming up with decades ago?

I'm sort of getting tired of it.


Yeah, I heard about that style in Battle Angel Alita (I think Alita was the name, but I'm bad at names) and Scrapped Princess years before Numenera. (Technically heard the concept before either of those, but they were my first experiences with seeing the concept used)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

In a magical world, I envision computers as very dangerous, because they are the quintessential force of Axiom's calculated logic made manifest.

So, if you could get a computer to work, it would be fine...up until it decided it didn't need you anymore and got up as a sentient construct and made all your 'evil computer controls other constructs' nightmares come true.

Get them tied into the force of universal law and off that power cord, and you've got no control over the suckers.

==Aelryinth


That is why you give AIs emotions (well you need to give them emotions anyway, but I mean more human-like emotions, including the need for social interaction. Additionally, you can control how they feel about certain general concepts including making killing something the AI finds distasteful.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Am I The Only One? wrote:
Cyrad wrote:


2) Magitech is ancient, mysterious technology
Inspired by Numenera and Outlaw Star, this approach to magitech involves the technology originating from ancient, lost civilizations...

I get that we're all required under threat of banishment from all RPGs ever if we don't all mindlessly worship Monte Cooke, but must we all be forced to slavishly attribute to him as completely his original work, plot devices that even hacks such as Terry Brooks were coming up with decades ago?

I'm sort of getting tired of it.

I don't recall Terry Brooks doing anything with RPG design. The only thing I remember him for is a tedious set of books that have a popularity that I hardly understand.


I may be wrong, but I think that was the point behind calling Terry Brooks a hack.

Though the reference being the "magic as ancient technology" rather then any RPG elements. Cause that concept certainly wasn't inspired by Numenera.


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Guild Wars 2 has a really good example of the magic = science sort with the Asura, which is basically a race of gnome-like creatures with a huge proclivity to science. Golems are not actually homogeneous constructions, but several separate pieces bonded together with magical energy fields to maintain their humanoid look and mobility, but require intricate rune carvings that serve as their circuitry and use gems as energy storage and conductors to regulate the magical power in the golems.

One of my DMs also let us buy weird Numerian arrows, one of which had a really complex head that armed itself when fired from a bow, and after it was armed, it would shove a portable hole into a bag of holding once it hit a solid surface, causing the classic black hole to the ethereal plane that we all know and love. Sadly, the magical rpg was a one time deal :(

Lastly, I had a summoner for a one shot who got her powers from magictech. She was a Gathlian magic item craftsman, and made her items by entering a meditative trance to envision the item she wanted to create, plucking a seed off of the plants embedded in her body, and planting them, where she performed a number of rituals so that when the plant flowered (which took as long as the item's craft time), the flower would open, containing the item she wanted to make. Her Eidolon was actually constructed like this, and to power it, she imbued it with a tenth of her soul, modeling it's design off of the visage of someone she had an unrequited love for. The magitech comes in with the fact that her wings and right arm were blown off in a mishap and replaced with magitech prosthetic versions. Her right arm contained a magical device that could open small rifts to summon creatures, as well as a device to convert her eidolon into data to store in a pocket dimension. The arm also served as a general amplifier and focus for her magic (no mechanical differences, it just changed how the somatic components looked). Her wings where a complex series of thin, conductive foil sheets that when she ran power through it, a magnetic field was created that let her fly. Both devices where powered by her body's natural energy, so she had a tendency to eat a lot of sugary foods because using these devices drained her body's energy reserves pretty quickly.


You know who else knew all about Astrology? MY MOM! Kosh house cusps wasn't very accurate. She was even talking about satellites throwing off the calculations.


A magitech item one of my characters managed to construct is similar to a motorcycle. It consists of two rods of balance for stability mounted as part of the frame, part of the engine consists of a nonmagical gear box that is powered by a ring of telekinesis that functions as a "key" for the whole device. The power from the ring is siphoned off using a rod of absorption. The whole thing was bound together with a very well worded wish. The nonmagical parts of the thing consist of two wagon wheels and a metal frame. The thing is rather rickety and looks like it is about to fall apart at any time, but the DM allowed it, and gave it stats of a light chariot pulled by a Phantom Steed cast by a 8th level caster. It is rather epic.

Forgot to mention the rest of the part was not at all amused at the monumental waste (in their eyes) of magical resources this thing was either. This wish was the last wish from a luck blade.


ahem. For those looking for an excellent resource in necrotech necropunk may be exactly what you are looking for.


christos gurd wrote:
ahem. For those looking for an excellent resource in necrotech necropunk may be exactly what you are looking for.

It's good I tied the head circles in to rituals, not spells. The necro engineers would tightly control the ritual for creating these generators.

Please tell the people who made this product that they are free to use this for their expansions, as long as they don't sue anyone for using it in other campaigns.


Goth Guru wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
ahem. For those looking for an excellent resource in necrotech necropunk may be exactly what you are looking for.

It's good I tied the head circles in to rituals, not spells. The necro engineers would tightly control the ritual for creating these generators.

Please tell the people who made this product that they are free to use this for their expansions, as long as they don't sue anyone for using it in other campaigns.

well i actually joined little red a little bit after they published this, so i will be happy to pass it on.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:

I may be wrong, but I think that was the point behind calling Terry Brooks a hack.

Though the reference being the "magic as ancient technology" rather then any RPG elements. Cause that concept certainly wasn't inspired by Numenera.

Pretty much the entire theme of Thundarr the Barbarian, although the trope goes all the way back to legends of Atlantis, and even Conan dips into it.

==Aelryinth


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I'm not not to use the Ancient technology route, even if I enjoy the idea. I want living, breathing tech that's an active part of the world. But, I do love me some Sword & Sorcery tropes, as well as Barrier Peaks! Perhaps the closest I'd go is an "alien magic" To me, the Modrons from Planescape embody that. They're magical, technological, and certainly alien (in many more ways than one.) But hey, the same could be said about the whole setting. Its technomagic predates Eberron (and China Mieville!)


Doctor Necrotic wrote:
I'm not not to use the Ancient technology route, even if I enjoy the idea. I want living, breathing tech that's an active part of the world.

+1


How unbalanced would a self rewinding clockwork be?

Dark Archive

Goth Guru wrote:
In another thread, I suggested power being generated by a circle of severed heads. Maybe a city wired for electricity is hiding a horrible secret. The circle of heads converts negative energy into negative current, i.e. electricity. If the power needs increase, a ritual must be conducted to add a head to the circle, or even another circle.

I've recently added a new nation to my homebrew world based on Necrotech. Their main import is Black Sapphires (For trap the soul + Soul bind) I'm going to have black sapphire dust connect those heads. It just makes sense for them and in general. Maybe not a city, but an entire nation is powered off of severed heads.


Black Sapphires, would give +5 to the chance of the ritual's success.
You could form a pentagram with those lines.


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The Mighty Chocobo wrote:
How unbalanced would a self rewinding clockwork be?

About as balanced as a permanency spell.

Dark Archive

Okay


A rifle barrel adds 1 to 5 accuracy to a gun, non magical, depending on it's length. If the barrel is made of meteoric iron it can also be enchanted +1 to +5, hit and damage, and these things stack.


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Odd, a rifled barrel should add to range or reduce range penalties, not add a to-hit bonus.

Who came up with that?


Fnipernackle wrote:

This is a pdf I put together and finished back in January. It's completely free and has a lot of different options in it. As for your Magitech question, in this pdf are Alchemical Wondrous Items which is the way my group handles Magitech. I hope you enjoy it

The Lost Arts

Also, as for power armor, here is a class I created a while back as well that does the whole power armor thing. Prolly not exactly what you're looking for, wanting power armor usable by every class, but this class can be easily adapted to do just that. I hope you enjoy this also.

The Armored-Engineer

Awesome stuff! Love the gem grenades and the spark wands. Also great Wondrous Alchemical Items. You should definitely expand on those :)


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I have been working on a whole magi tech society within Golarian. By severing Numeria in 1/2 and making the eastern portion a different kingdom based on magic tech from the fallen ships. I call it Omnimagic. It is a WIP but your welcome to browse/use any ideas you may find interesting. Here is the link: Omnimagic.

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Omnimagic is a lot like the arcanite that I put in the OP. Except that the better the gem cutter, the better the weapon. Also arcanite only does ranged weapons and grenades and it uses normal magic to power it.
EDIT 1: arcanite is in my homebrew world.
EDIT 2: I'll be mining Omnimagic to refine arcanite.
EDIT 3: Great minds think alike ;)


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Odd, a rifled barrel should add to range or reduce range penalties, not add a to-hit bonus.

Who came up with that?

That's why I said accuracy. You add the accuracy to to hit, but you multiply the range by it. I got that from H2, guns that changed history.

If you want to sacrifice believability for game balance, that's your issue, not mine.


Rifling doesn't make the shooter more accurate though, only the weapon. Range penalties cover two aspects, projectile inaccuracy (whether from the weapon or environmental effects like wind), and the shrinking of target size. Bonuses to-hit however imply an ability to increase the attacker's ability to hit. Within the first range increment, the accuracy of the weapon has minimal effect, it isn't until you start shooting at far away things that weapon accuracy start becoming important. This is why weapon accuracy (crossed with weapon power) is what should determine the range increment.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Some things I'm working on for my home game that build off of magitech and some of the rules presented in Sunken Empires and the Numeria book that could interest people.

1. Systems for harvesting lost tech components from ancient golems

2. dragon breed that has a radiation breath weapon

3. 2 robot NPC's that I plan on having join the caravan if they don't kill each other on their first meeting. I really want 10010 to become a member of their caravan and watch them decide whether to drag him along on dungeon crawls or whether the sputtering junk robot with a partially working buzzsaw arm and a penchant for falling apart like a looney toons automobile is worth bringing along.

4. Also fiddling around with a rebuild of the ironborn presented by Rite publishing. I love the race on first glance but it needs another editing pass to clean up some word choices and maybe simplify some mechanical options now that we have the android to look at as a model of a PC friendly construct race.

5. Fiddling with the new mutant template. I just built a creature I'm calling a Ratfolk Goliath with that template and it is as fun and nasty as it sounds. Great template if you want to build some interesting and terrifying mutants in PF.

If any of those interest people feel free to ask questions or respond. I'm honestly looking to get some ideas and conversation about any of these with people who know the mechanics they are built on well so that I can build something that makes sense and is balanced for my party to deal with.

Dark Archive

Mutant as in Mana waste mutant from the ISB? Or another mutant template?

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Actually, length of barrel and rifling combined for accuracy.

I'm reminded of an interview with an old cowpoke about the wild west. He noted that nobody in their right mind used a revolver in a fight. The things could miss someone at twenty feet away, they were so unreliable.

You used a rifle whenever you could, so you hit what you aimed at. Instead of a pistol, you used a sawed-off shotgun...the short-range kick was just as powerful as a full length shotgun, and you weren't using it at a range where the spread was important, anyways.

But comparing the accuracy of things like a blunderbuss or musket or dueling pistols to things with rifling and straight barrels is asking for trouble! :)

==Aelryinth


Odd. I seem to hit at 20'quite regularly with a pistol. Maybe they just cant shoot. Or he has a bad sense of distance. It is difficult to miss at 20' heck, practice targets are at 30'. Maybe they were mostly the "spray and pray" sort, the idea of which is supported by the existence of trick shooters, those folks who could put on shows with their ability to hit a target which requires the weapons to have sufficient accuracy for such. Unlike what the game does , the balance of skill to weapon accuracy, becomes completely dependent on weapon accuracy (not including environmental effects of course.). This point generally falls somewhere near the 8-10 range increment depending on how the increments are set.

In any case, weapon accuracy falls under range increments. If a weapon can't reliably hit at 20' (which is very unlikely even for wild west weapons) then it has a range increment of about 5'. Making a weapon super accurate doesn't grant skill to the user, but instead allows a user to use their skill at greater distance reliably.

Things with low accuracy are sometimes used in bulk to make hitting things easier, such as shotguns, because then, rather then trying to hit with a projectile, one tries to flood an area with projectiles and hopes that one actually hits the target. This would be an area attack of course, and the to hit roll would depend more the density of projectiles then skill.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Are you using modern firearms or civil war era mass produced revolvers?

There's a distinct difference in gun quality. And PF firearms would be 1-200 years before those.

A good pistol nowadays, with the right ammo, can be accurate to a decent distance. But ask a professional...if you want to make sure you hit what you aim at, go for size with a shotgun or accuracy with a rifle. Pistols are definitely very short range weapons.

==Aelryinth

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cr500cricket wrote:
Mutant as in Mana waste mutant from the ISB? Or another mutant template?

New one.

We now have the Mana Waste Mutant and the Mutant template (I could also see calling the latter the radiation mutant or Numerian Mutant).


I was referring to older weapons, except for the one statement of my own experience.

There were trick shooters in the old days that could hit with fair accuracy in the days of the old west. That fact alone means that the weapons of the day were accurate enough that someone with sufficient skill could hit a target. That means that someone who could not hit a target with similar weapons at similar ranges simply lacked skill.

When it comes to projectiles, there is a cone that can be described. This cone has a radius for a given distance is equal to the sum of the radii of two smaller cones for that distance, first is the cone of a weapons accuracy which is where the projectiles from the weapon will appear, second is the cone of the shooters skill which is how close they center the weapons accuracy cone on the target.

Thus to hit a 3" target @ 10' requires the sum of skill and weapon accuracy to be 3" or less @ 10' which is nearly identical to 6" @ 20' (nearly because environmental effects increase with distance.)

This means that if someone can reliably hit a 3" target @ 10' then the weapon is no less accurate than 3" per 10' plus environment effects. This further means that someone who can't hit an 18" target @ 20' with similar weapons must therefore have a skill cone greater than 7.5" per 10' but even with a 9" per 10' skill cone they would still hit an 18" target at 20' most of the time.

Considering my experience in the military, it is far easier to believe that most folks lacked skill rather then believe that old west weapons were that inaccurate. (Seriously, I was in a pistol shotting contest once at an event and most of the officers who tried had skill cones of about 12-15" per 10' [estimated of course] far more detrimental to their ability to hit then the weapons accuracy.)

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doc the grey wrote:
Cr500cricket wrote:
Mutant as in Mana waste mutant from the ISB? Or another mutant template?

New one.

We now have the Mana Waste Mutant and the Mutant template (I could also see calling the latter the radiation mutant or Numerian Mutant).

ooh, I'm going to have to buy me a book.


Cr500cricket wrote:

Omnimagic is a lot like the arcanite that I put in the OP. Except that the better the gem cutter, the better the weapon. Also arcanite only does ranged weapons and grenades and it uses normal magic to power it.

EDIT 1: arcanite is in my homebrew world.
EDIT 2: I'll be mining Omnimagic to refine arcanite.
EDIT 3: Great minds think alike ;)

Thank Cricket. Have at it. Do you have a link to your homebrew?


doc the grey wrote:

Some things I'm working on for my home game that build off of magitech and some of the rules presented in Sunken Empires and the Numeria book that could interest people.

4. Also fiddling around with a rebuild of the ironborn presented by Rite publishing. I love the race on first glance but it needs another editing pass to clean up some word choices and maybe simplify some mechanical options now that we have the android to look at as a model of a PC friendly construct race.

I just reworked the Warforged into my campaign. You can call them Ironborn or Warforged. I loved the idea when it first came out in 3.5.

Warforged


Just found this thread, have not read all the pages yet. So if this has already been mentioned my apologies.

Terry Brooks Shannara setting, in one or two sets of books there were flying airships. These were powered by 'magic crystals' for lack of a better term. When mined and shaped properly, they would catch daylight and channel magical energy into specially built sails and wings that gave the ships lift and maneuverability.

The advantages were that anyone could build flying airships once they gained the knowledge of how to cut the crystals and harness the channeled energy. The Disadvantages were they could only fly during the day (I believe, it has been a long time since I read that series) and they were very fragile. Most ships were small, light and maneuverable. But once the wings were hit they were down. The warships made in the series were very large and heavy, and very slow due to the amount of armor they had to carry to keep it from being shot down.

I always liked those ships. I never have gotten around to statting them up in a game though.


Addendum, If I recall I think one of the bad guys in the series found a way to channel the sunlight into another series of crystals, effectively creating a laser cannon.

The brothers Hildebrandt actually wrote one book, Urshurak. In that world the Amazons could channel their latent psychic abilities into moving their (waterbound) ships, and the lightning cannons mounted on them. That was about the extent of it, but it was tech the other races did not have.


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Most (all, really) of my magitek developments are player-side, and bound by the RAW. This is not a complaint, merely an explanation of where I'm coming from. I tend to rely on Animated objects because their rules are full of exploitable vagueness.

Airship: Literally just a boat (cast fabricate on a grove of trees and it's free) you turned into an animated object, it can fly, it can swim, and it has a bunch of leftover construct points for whatever special abilities you want, like grabbing people who fall off with its rigging.

CCTV: The baseline appearance is the adjutant from starcraft, it looks medium-sized but that's because the rest of its colossal body is a mass of long thing cables that end in little tiny sensory apparatus (eyes and ears) which thread throughout the building or section of the city which they are meant to observe. The animated object itself uses a custom magic item that casts minor image and ghost sound to create an interactive viewscreen. If the DM rules it needs brains to have the skill to do that, give it brains. You can even link it with other constructs via permanent Telepathic Bond spells. Adjutant in sector A describes the situation to Adjutant B in mechanical detail and Adjutant B shows you what's going on. Adjutant B relays your orders to Guard Armor Unit C (standard Huge Construct battlemech-thing, probably has a person inside giving specific orders and city guardsmen backing him up) which moves in to deal with the problem.

Earthmovers/miners: the Burrow special ability is cheap for constructs. 'nuff said

Weapon Platforms: While a construct is pretty bad at ranged attacks, an animated wheel can spin (moving the ballista) an animated arm can move things (automatically load the ballista) and a cheap mercenary can do the actual aiming and firing.

Sadly my most favorite move, the permanent wall of force, is no longer practical in most settings because it always has to be vertical. You can still put a lot of weight on a vertical wall (allowing architecture which medieval tech couldn't do) but you can't craft a floating city in the sky like you could in 3.5.

Mythic Levitate on the other hand, or some Homebrew that approximates it, can create a floating stone foundation which, if you put together enough of it over time, will give you a flying castle or even a flying city. The individual blocks might have a tendency to spin, but when held together with mortar will keep each other from moving too much. This allows you to have your flying city semi-precariously held together with great linked chains (which look really cool) and traveling through the sky either by will of the Wizard-King who made it or drifting by the Orb of Storms-controlled currents of the wind.

Demiplanes work like the Age books in the Myst setting, allowing you to get food from a demiplane of food-growing or craft things really fast in a hyperbolic time chamber (yeah I went there), or just hide your civilian population when your magical flying trade city is under attack by demons.

Speaking of which, nobody says you have to have a flying city. A single paradise demiplane with many doors spread out across your giant fleet of heavily armed and armored airships (done as above) creates a fascinating dynamic similar to the Eldar Webway or a really nice and well-supplied version of the Quarian Migrant fleet.

Not to mention it's easier to secure, if the whole demiplane is dimensionally-locked outside of your specific well-guarded portal rooms.

And then there's permanent teleport circles. I think valve made sure everybody knows how to "think with portals" these days.

But we want big flashy weapons, and for that I only have two toys.

The Necklace of Fireballs that gets chain-detonated (something wearing it intentionally failed its save) and a pile of uranium might be enough to go critical mass, but probably not.

Polymorph any Object can turn 2000 cubic feet of lava into a pebble until you drop a dispel magic on it. Dropping 2000 cubic feet of lava (or more) will kill most targets.

And now it's snack time. *wanders away*


Myst! I love Myst!

Hmm. I like your post. Still thinking only with d20 stuff, but still neat thinking there.

Dark Archive

inkedmsd wrote:
Cr500cricket wrote:

Omnimagic is a lot like the arcanite that I put in the OP. Except that the better the gem cutter, the better the weapon. Also arcanite only does ranged weapons and grenades and it uses normal magic to power it.

EDIT 1: arcanite is in my homebrew world.
EDIT 2: I'll be mining Omnimagic to refine arcanite.
EDIT 3: Great minds think alike ;)
Thank Cricket. Have at it. Do you have a link to your homebrew?

No. Not yet, I haven't finished a groundwork for arcanite yet. It's just an idea with no real tethers to any concept of balance atm.


So why does omnimagic have starcraft crystals in it?


The default setting for Roads and Ruins is magitech. I did that cause I want the system to be super versatile and cover both scifi and fantasy genres. I actually have a few settings I want to support with no rules changes, or minimal changes at least, including mass effect, halo, dragonage, and fallout equestria.

Of course, available choices =/= mechanics (unlike what some folks seem to believe).

I'll post some aspects of such here.


The magic rifle barrel was just to prove a point. You can put bonuses on a musket barrel. You could add acid, fire, frost, lightning, or sonic damage.
In the Eicher room, my vertical is your horizontal. The spell says you can create a vertical wall. It does not say you can't create a horizontal wall.


Yeah, I noticed most things are written with the expected use in mind, rather then trying to be as nonspecific as possible.

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