Prepared Spells and Pregens


Pathfinder Society


When playing a Pregen Caster that prepares spells such as Ezren and Kyra can you change their prepared spells or are you locked into their prepared spells?

Edit: Mind you I'm not asking to swap out spells known or anything like that. Just preparing spells that the characters already have access to, like those from Ezren's spellbook or from the Cleric List for Kyra.

The Exchange 5/5

i've noticed that it depends on the judge though most would let you swap them (esp. if you have more than a day in the scenario).

YMMV

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

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If you arrive early for the slot and can work it out with the GM before the game commences, or already know you want to play a particular pregen going into the session and have made some choices beforehand, I can't see how it would be a problem. If you're as far into the session as the VC briefing, then I'd say you've left it too late.

If the scenario takes place over more than one day, you've as much right as any other prepared caster.

5/5

Ezren has additional spells noted as being in his spellbook. If you could not change them they would be rather redundant. If the module runs over more than one day, especially if there is travel time at the start, there is absolutely no good reason why a prepared caster could not switch them about.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I usually tell people to respect the pregen's choices when it comes to their prepared spells.

If you have more than one day in the scenario, which many do, feel free to switch them up as needed.

But they show up at the table with the spells in their statblock prepared.

(1st level pregens are an obvious exception)

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:

I usually tell people to respect the pregen's choices when it comes to their prepared spells.

If you have more than one day in the scenario, which many do, feel free to switch them up as needed.

But they show up at the table with the spells in their statblock prepared.

(1st level pregens are an obvious exception)

why are 1st levels an obvious exception?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Because you can change anything about your character before playing above level 1.

The Exchange 5/5

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Nefreet wrote:
Because you can change anything about your character before playing above level 1.

I do not understand this logic.

but like I said, YMMV...

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Nefreet wrote:
Because you can change anything about your character before playing above level 1.

Yes, but if you're playing a pregen you're not actually playing your character.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

During level 1 you could sit down at a table with a level 1 pregen Ezren that knows (whatever Ezren knows at level 1) and next to him have a carbon copy (same stats, same items, even the same name) except he has a completely different spell list.

This is 100% legal, during level 1.

It's after level 1 that you're set in stone (and why the level 4 and 7 pregen spell lists are set in stone, too).

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Nefreet wrote:

During level 1 you could sit down at a table with a level 1 pregen Ezren that knows (whatever Ezren knows at level 1) and next to him have a carbon copy (same stats, same items, even the same name) except he has a completely different spell list.

This is 100% legal, during level 1.

The difference being that if you have two chronicles on your Not-Ezren and he dies, you don't get to apply that third chronicle to a different character. You're out three chronicles rather than one.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Different issue.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

But a legitimate concern between using a pregen and using a carbon-copy.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't really have any problem with players swapping out spells of the pre gens for other spells in their spell books ( ezren) or on their spell list (Kyra).

When asked why Kyra has Cure light wounds memorized, or why Ezren has magic missile at first level, I explain that these pre-gens were written with the beginning player in mind.


I do this all the time whether gm'ing or playing as kyra (level 7). Season five scenario, its known beforehand that demons will be there, yeah I'm memorizing all the holy smites I can.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Myles Crocker wrote:

I don't really have any problem with players swapping out spells of the pre gens for other spells in their spell books ( ezren) or on their spell list (Kyra).

When asked why Kyra has Cure light wounds memorized, or why Ezren has magic missile at first level, I explain that these pre-gens were written with the beginning player in mind.

Remember that Kyra has that CLW prepared in her Domain spell slot, not a regular Cleric spell slot, so the only other choice for that slot is the first level spell for her other domain, so the choice for that spell slot is either CLW (Healing) or Endure Elements (Sun), which she already has on a scroll in her possession...

(Sorry, was playing 1st level Kyra today...)

Grand Lodge 4/5

kinevon wrote:
Myles Crocker wrote:

I don't really have any problem with players swapping out spells of the pre gens for other spells in their spell books ( ezren) or on their spell list (Kyra).

When asked why Kyra has Cure light wounds memorized, or why Ezren has magic missile at first level, I explain that these pre-gens were written with the beginning player in mind.

Remember that Kyra has that CLW prepared in her Domain spell slot, not a regular Cleric spell slot, so the only other choice for that slot is the first level spell for her other domain, so the choice for that spell slot is either CLW (Healing) or Endure Elements (Sun), which she already has on a scroll in her possession...

(Sorry, was playing 1st level Kyra today...)

Yes, but her 4th level version has CLW prepared in a nondomain slot, and her 7th level version has a Cure spell at each level in a nondomain slot.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵

Jeff Merola wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Myles Crocker wrote:

I don't really have any problem with players swapping out spells of the pre gens for other spells in their spell books ( ezren) or on their spell list (Kyra).

When asked why Kyra has Cure light wounds memorized, or why Ezren has magic missile at first level, I explain that these pre-gens were written with the beginning player in mind.

Remember that Kyra has that CLW prepared in her Domain spell slot, not a regular Cleric spell slot, so the only other choice for that slot is the first level spell for her other domain, so the choice for that spell slot is either CLW (Healing) or Endure Elements (Sun), which she already has on a scroll in her possession...

(Sorry, was playing 1st level Kyra today...)

Yes, but her 4th level version has CLW prepared in a nondomain slot, and her 7th level version has a Cure spell at each level in a nondomain slot.

Also designed for a newer player filling a seat at a higher tier table than they have a character for. I always understood that the pre-gens were designed with less experienced players in mind - giving them what's easy to handle, not what's "optimized".

5/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Also designed for a newer player filling a seat at a higher tier table than they have a character for. I always understood that the pre-gens were designed with less experienced players in mind - giving them what's easy to handle, not what's "optimized".

I am not sure what is easier about having a pointless cure serious wounds memorised over say, a holy smite. It is just makes no sense at all.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

andreww wrote:
I am not sure what is easier about having a pointless cure serious wounds memorised over say, a holy smite.

Cure Serious heals an ally, that's it, unless it is used against undead. Holy Smite involves targeting an area, checking SR, rolling damage against targets, having them save, determining alignments and half damages and blindness. It's exponentially more information to be processed from the GM.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If someone grabs Kyra, they're looking for a healer.

If someone wants a blaster, they're going to reach for Seoni.

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:

If someone grabs Kyra, they're looking for a healer.

If someone wants a blaster, they're going to reach for Seoni.

not me... I'll go with the prepared caster.

but then, I'm not a new player, and that was sort of the reason for this thread right? To ask if a player is stuck with the Prepared Spells on the Pregens... even if you know/want something better...

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

If someone grabs Kyra, they're looking for a healer.

If someone wants a blaster, they're going to reach for Seoni.

not me... I'll go with the prepared caster.

but then, I'm not a new player, and that was sort of the reason for this thread right? To ask if a player is stuck with the Prepared Spells on the Pregens... even if you know/want something better...

And I think the concensus was to ETV on initial setup, but that, if there is a time span involved in the scenario, there would be no reason not to allow changing the spells.

3/5

I've also heard the same. If the scenario consists of:

Drandle Drang calls you into his office in the dead of night (as usual) and informs you that the Whatsis consortium has stolen the Great MacGuffin from the Blakros museum and you must go immediately to retrieve it!

Then you don't get to prepare spells. If it consists of:

You're called into Ambrus Valsin's office on a fine spring day and given the task of travelling to Katapesh to negotiate a trade pact with the Gnolls. Three days travel on a boat is expected.

Then you can do pretty much whatever you want in those three days.


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If it's an experienced player, I'll expect them to change the prepared spells as they see fit. And I'll do the same myself.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

I've also heard the same. If the scenario consists of:

Drandle Drang calls you into his office in the dead of night (as usual) and informs you that the Whatsis consortium has stolen the Great MacGuffin from the Blakros museum and you must go immediately to retrieve it!

Actually, in this case, I would probably allow someone playing Ezren to reprep out of the pregen's spelbook. Kyra (and Seelah) too, provided the person piloting the pregen is prepared and knows what spells they want to use, otherwise they're stuck with the basic pregen list. If they're being woken up in the middle of the night and dragged into a briefing, the times I've seen it I've seen them call out that the PC's are given enough time to prep spells. In fact, if the PC's aren't given time to prep spells, I'd argue that no PC's that have to prep spells would have access to them.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Nefreet wrote:

During level 1 you could sit down at a table with a level 1 pregen Ezren that knows (whatever Ezren knows at level 1) and next to him have a carbon copy (same stats, same items, even the same name) except he has a completely different spell list.

This is 100% legal, during level 1.

It's after level 1 that you're set in stone (and why the level 4 and 7 pregen spell lists are set in stone, too).

Except that the second player is no longer playing an actual pregen, if they change the pregen they would have to accept the risk of death that the other people playng PC's that they have built themselves. If that second Ezren died in a game I ran, I would not allow him to apply it to a blank character.

Grand Lodge

UndeadMitch wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

During level 1 you could sit down at a table with a level 1 pregen Ezren that knows (whatever Ezren knows at level 1) and next to him have a carbon copy (same stats, same items, even the same name) except he has a completely different spell list.

This is 100% legal, during level 1.

It's after level 1 that you're set in stone (and why the level 4 and 7 pregen spell lists are set in stone, too).

Except that the second player is no longer playing an actual pregen, if they change the pregen they would have to accept the risk of death that the other people playng PC's that they have built themselves. If that second Ezren died in a game I ran, I would not allow him to apply it to a blank character.

Okay, so they are at their first game with that PC. It's no longer a pregen because they changed the list of known spells. So if their PC dies you won't let them switch the PC number from this "blank" character onto another "blank" character? How is it any different?

If they already had 1 or 2 XP on the character then they should be playing that character anyhow. If they decided to retrain their character into a pregen look-a-like only with different spells, it's not really a pregen anyhow and of course there is the risk of death.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
UndeadMitch wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

During level 1 you could sit down at a table with a level 1 pregen Ezren that knows (whatever Ezren knows at level 1) and next to him have a carbon copy (same stats, same items, even the same name) except he has a completely different spell list.

This is 100% legal, during level 1.

It's after level 1 that you're set in stone (and why the level 4 and 7 pregen spell lists are set in stone, too).

Except that the second player is no longer playing an actual pregen, if they change the pregen they would have to accept the risk of death that the other people playng PC's that they have built themselves. If that second Ezren died in a game I ran, I would not allow him to apply it to a blank character.

*looks up*

Silver Crusade 5/5

Don Walker wrote:


Okay, so they are at their first game with that PC. It's no longer a pregen because they changed the list of known spells. So if their PC dies you won't let them switch the PC number from this "blank" character onto another "blank" character? How is it any different?

If they already had 1 or 2 XP on the character then they should be playing that character anyhow. If they decided to retrain their character into a pregen look-a-like only with different spells, it's not really a pregen anyhow and of course there is the risk of death.

If it's a blank character with no XP on it, then that doesn't matter, I'm not going to nitpick with a player over which blank number gets reported. My post is mainly referring to the second situation that you (and TOZ, missed his earlier post) mentioned, character's that already have 1 or 2 XP on them.

Grand Lodge

UndeadMitch wrote:
Don Walker wrote:


Okay, so they are at their first game with that PC. It's no longer a pregen because they changed the list of known spells. So if their PC dies you won't let them switch the PC number from this "blank" character onto another "blank" character? How is it any different?

If they already had 1 or 2 XP on the character then they should be playing that character anyhow. If they decided to retrain their character into a pregen look-a-like only with different spells, it's not really a pregen anyhow and of course there is the risk of death.

If it's a blank character with no XP on it, then that doesn't matter, I'm not going to nitpick with a player over which blank number gets reported. My post is mainly referring to the second situation that you (and TOZ, missed his earlier post) mentioned, character's that already have 1 or 2 XP on them.

But that situation should never come up because if they have a 1 or 2 XP character they can't use a level 1 pregen to earn a chronicle for that PC. Even if they are using a pregen sheet to play the game it is technically their current level 1 PC retrained to be a carbon copy of a pregen.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Don Walker wrote:


But that situation should never come up because if they have a 1 or 2 XP character they can't use a level 1 pregen to earn a chronicle for that PC. Even if they are using a pregen sheet to play the game it is technically their current level 1 PC retrained to be a carbon copy of a pregen.

I agree with what you're saying, I think I just worded what I was saying poorly.

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