Barbarians and Arcane Strike


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Grand Lodge

I've been scouring the Internet for ways to accomplish this. I REALLY want to be human and I REALLY want to take Arcane Strike, but the only ways I can find to have an arcane SLA is to use a race that I don't really want to use (Aasimar, Tiefling, Duergar, etc). Is there a particular feat or rage power or inexpensive item that will grant an arcane SLA?


Not for the Barbarian, no. I believe the only martial class that can pick up a SLA is the Rogue via the Magic Trick talent, but that only levels up with Rogue levels.

There are traits that provide SLA's but those don't scale with level so AS never does more than +1/+1.

You should just be a Tiefling, Tieflings are cooooool.

Scarab Sages

If you are willing you can be a Half-Elf and pull it off. They're a good race, can get free exotic weapon proficiency for a cool weapon, and there's a trait that gives you a 0th level spell-like ability with caster level based on your character level. Full arcane strike progression. As a human, you don't really have any decent options in that regard.


Here is the link: 0th Level Spell


That's not a good one for non-casters, as the caster level will always be 1. Alurring is nicer.

Grand Lodge

Arachnofiend wrote:

Not for the Barbarian, no. I believe the only martial class that can pick up a SLA is the Rogue via the Magic Trick talent, but that only levels up with Rogue levels.

There are traits that provide SLA's but those don't scale with level so AS never does more than +1/+1.

You should just be a Tiefling, Tieflings are cooooool.

So caster level scale with character level with regards to SLAs?

Scarab Sages

Huh. I missed alluring. Well, there ya go.


Azten wrote:
That's not a good one for non-casters, as the caster level will always be 1. Alurring is nicer.

That's what happens when you troll the d20 site when tired =/

Here is an Ioun Stone that does the trick also.

Sovereign Court

Isn't Alluring meant to be for dwarves? So you'd need Adopted first to get access to dwarven racial traits.

Not a big problem, just due diligence.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Isn't Alluring meant to be for dwarves? So you'd need Adopted first to get access to dwarven racial traits.

Not a big problem, just due diligence.

Hey, you can build Wulfgar with this!


Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.

Sovereign Court

thorin001 wrote:
Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.

You're only using Arcane Strike, you're not casting spells. I'm not sure if I would define Arcane Strike as "requiring patience or concentration", since it's something you casually do as a swift action every round, in addition to doing a lot of other things. And it doesn't look like any of the other things you're not allowed to do.


I think a human with Racial heritage elf can take the elven feat Arcane talent and then gain a 0-level spell casting at character level. My human chose light. Maybe that works for your human barbarian.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Isn't Alluring meant to be for dwarves? So you'd need Adopted first to get access to dwarven racial traits.

Not a big problem, just due diligence.

It's not a race trait, but a religion trait.


AerynTahlro wrote:

Hate to break in here, but.... Every time I've seen this question come up (and even asked it myself), it's determined that Spell-Like Abilities do not count as granting you the ability to cast Arcane Spells. SLA's don't count as arcane or divine, it's just an ability that mimics an actual spell.

The definition of a SLA obliquely supports this:
"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component."

Spell-Like Abilities: How do I know whether a spell-like ability is arcane or divine?

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?


AerynTahlro wrote:
Hate to break in here, but.... Every time I've seen this question come up (and even asked it myself), it's determined that Spell-Like Abilities do not count as granting you the ability to cast Arcane Spells. SLA's don't count as arcane or divine, it's just an ability that mimics an actual spell.

Actually:

A creature with a spell-like ability counts as having that spell and there is a method for determining if an SLA is arcane or divine.

EDIT: Ninja'ed with such a time difference, it's embarassing.

Scarab Sages

Azten wrote:
It's not a race trait, but a religion trait.

Are we going to see an influx of Bolka worshippers, similar to people hailing from Minata?


Possibly. More religion isn't a bad thing... right?

Scarab Sages

As the goddess of Dwarven Marriages, who can say no, right?


Azten wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities: How do I know whether a spell-like ability is arcane or divine?

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

I spotted those FAQ's as I waited for my post to update and decided to just delete the post while I read and re-read the FAQ's... guess I didn't delete fast enough. Believe me, I'm on the side of wanting this to work (tried to ask this myself before), but the wording of those FAQ's still makes me feel like this is a gray area in this instance. I'm not trying to be argumentative or obtuse here, just discussing this. Based on the number of threads on this exact topic, it blows me away that this still hasn't been spelled out in the FAQ.

The combination of the two FAQ's tells me two things...
1. You count as being able to cast {spellname} by having it as a spell-like ability
2. The "spell" being cast by the SLA counts as arcane or divine based on the criteria in the FAQ

I definitely see and understand the logic of "If I count as being able to cast {spellname} and {spellname} counts as Arcane, then logically speaking I can cast an arcane spell". (Of course, technically speaking, Arcane Strike requires the capability to cast Arcane spells--plural, but skipping that issue...) Also to note, the spell "counting as arcane" does not actually make it an arcane spell.

The reason why I'm pointing to a gray area is because the first FAQ ("Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites") points to the SLA counting on an individual level, not as counting as if you had Arcane/Divine spellcasting ability with only the capability to cast that one specific spell. A Sorc/Wiz has the ability to cast Arcane spells--even if that character only knew one spell, they still have the ability to cast spells. In the FAQ example, you count as being able to cast an Arcane Dimension Door, but it's not saying that you count as being able to cast Arcane spells in general.

If you scroll up one post in that FAQ list, you'll see that an SLA does not count as having the spell for the purpose of Spell-Completion items:

FAQ wrote:
A spell-like ability is not a spell, having a spell-like ability is not part of a class's spell list

And this is why this is confusing... An SLA counts as arcane or divine and counts as if you were able to cast the spell when it comes time to specific pre-requisites on feats and item crafting, but it does not count as you actually being capable of casting the spell when it comes time to spell completion/trigger items. Point is, it seems like you count as being able to cast the spell, but not actually count as having the ability to cast the spell.

Point is, does the specific inherently imply the general?

If yes, then technically speaking you would need at least 2 Arcane SLA's to qualify for the feat.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

AerynTahlro wrote:
Azten wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities: How do I know whether a spell-like ability is arcane or divine?

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

I spotted those FAQ's as I waited for my post to update and decided to just delete the post while I read and re-read the FAQ's... guess I didn't delete fast enough. Believe me, I'm on the side of wanting this to work (tried to ask this myself before), but the wording of those FAQ's still makes me feel like this is a gray area in this instance. I'm not trying to be argumentative or obtuse here, just discussing this. Based on the number of threads on this exact topic, it blows me away that this still hasn't been spelled out in the FAQ.

The combination of the two FAQ's tells me two things...
1. You count as being able to cast {spellname} by having it as a spell-like ability
2. The "spell" being cast by the SLA counts as arcane or divine based on the criteria in the FAQ

I definitely see and understand the logic of "If I count as being able to cast {spellname} and {spellname} counts as Arcane, then logically speaking I can cast an arcane spell". (Of course, technically speaking, Arcane Strike requires the capability to cast Arcane spells--plural, but skipping that issue...) Also to note, the spell "counting as arcane" does not actually make it an arcane spell.

The reason why I'm pointing to a gray area is because the first FAQ ("Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites") points to the SLA counting on an individual level, not as counting as if you had Arcane/Divine spellcasting ability with only the capability to cast that one specific spell. A Sorc/Wiz has the ability to cast Arcane...

If you dig up the original threads from when the FAQs were issued, the developers said that just one SLA counts as "able to cast spells." In fact, SKR even used the example of a rogue with the Minor Magic talent qualifying for Arcane Strike.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
If you dig up the original threads from when the FAQs were issued, the developers said that just one SLA counts as "able to cast spells." In fact, SKR even used the example of a rogue with the Minor Magic talent qualifying for Arcane Strike.

Thank you for saying that SKR is the one who posted it, and what it was about. You gave me what I needed to find that thread:

Original post

I am happy to be wrong, happier that there is a direct quote to prove that this works. I would be even happier if this information was put into the FAQ. Disregard my previous musings.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There's also a post made by the Pathfinder Design Team account explicitly stating that "ability to cast spells" does not mean "more than one spell".


Aren't there some traits that give you a minor SLA?


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Aren't there some traits that give you a minor SLA?

Yes--that's what sparked my interest in this topic originally.

Magical Talent is one of them but Azten pointed out that Alluring is far better.

Jiggy wrote:
There's also a post made by the Pathfinder Design Team account explicitly stating that "ability to cast spells" does not mean "more than one spell".

Man... two RPG Superstars telling me I have bad information in the same post in the span of one hour... I'm going to go ahead and sit in the corner.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Discovering that you have bad information is the first step to gaining good information, and is already further than many are willing to go. :)


Ascalaphus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.
You're only using Arcane Strike, you're not casting spells. I'm not sure if I would define Arcane Strike as "requiring patience or concentration", since it's something you casually do as a swift action every round, in addition to doing a lot of other things. And it doesn't look like any of the other things you're not allowed to do.

I did not say that it was against RAW, because it is not. It is however a gray area that different GMs will rule differently on. And some GMs will be offended by a raging barbarian using Arcane Strike.


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Davor wrote:
If you are willing you can be a Half-Elf and pull it off. They're a good race, can get free exotic weapon proficiency for a cool weapon, and there's a trait that gives you a 0th level spell-like ability with caster level based on your character level. Full arcane strike progression. As a human, you don't really have any decent options in that regard.

I should mention: neither of the alternate racial traits seem PFS legal. One is being a half-drow and gaining some appropriate light related SLAs, the other is from a subrace of mountainous elves mentioned in Bastards of Golarian, and you get some bookworm SLAs.

Although half-elves do have access to a racial feat, elven spirit, which lets you basically grab an elven racial trait that replaces elven magic (all of which have stat requirements to get SLAs). It must be taken at level 1, and as such you can't just go and grab either power attack OR arcane strike...which sucks. Good news for fighters though, I suppose, since they can take advantage of all the goodies with their bonus feats by level 2.

Oh, and thinking about it, elves have access to PFS legal SLA's that qualify. I mean, I understand if you don't want to, since they have a penalty to CON, so it takes some serious min maxing to be up to par. I can make it work, but it has stats that look like it was for a 15 pt buy human (16, 14, 14, 10x3, on the least painful version of a 20 point buy). Still, it is enough to qualify for lightbringer, which only needs an INT of 10 to get light at will. The slight decrease in strength would be mostly made up for by level 5 in terms of damage, if not attack rolls. Still, it can be nice to play against type once in a while.

Also, in regards to the argument about 'you can't arcane strike while raging': Arcane strike is the act of taking the magical power inately within your being, and then taking it in your hand, causing it to burst out in a dangerous manner, and beating some poor fool's face in with it with narry a word, silly hand gesture, or bat guano involved (Well, other than on the poor fool's part maybe). If there was anything more apt for a barbarian than that (well, other than boozing, wenching, and slashing), then please tell me. I really want to know your expectations.


From Ultimate Magic:

Quote:


Eldritch Heritage
You are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Aberrant, Celestial, Destined, Elemental, Fey, Infernal, and Undead bloodlines all grant a suitable SLA.

Dark Archive

Kobolds of Golarion wrote:

Draconic Echo

Like the blue dragons your tribe reveres, you have a touch of illusory magic. You are able to cast ghost sound twice per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this effect is equal to your character level. This spell-like ability’s save DC is Intelligence-based.
Faiths and Philosophies wrote:

Wendifa Apprentice

For a time during your childhood, you were left in the care of a juju oracle or wendifa, who saw your potential and taught you simple juju magic to inf luence the weakminded for brief periods of time. You can use daze as a spell-like ability once per day, using your character level as your caster level (minimum 1). The save DC of this effect is Charisma-based. The dazed individual looks ashen and deathly for the duration of the effect.

Sovereign Court

thorin001 wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.
You're only using Arcane Strike, you're not casting spells. I'm not sure if I would define Arcane Strike as "requiring patience or concentration", since it's something you casually do as a swift action every round, in addition to doing a lot of other things. And it doesn't look like any of the other things you're not allowed to do.

I did not say that it was against RAW, because it is not. It is however a gray area that different GMs will rule differently on. And some GMs will be offended by a raging barbarian using Arcane Strike.

There is certainly that risk.


Ascalaphus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.
You're only using Arcane Strike, you're not casting spells. I'm not sure if I would define Arcane Strike as "requiring patience or concentration", since it's something you casually do as a swift action every round, in addition to doing a lot of other things. And it doesn't look like any of the other things you're not allowed to do.

I did not say that it was against RAW, because it is not. It is however a gray area that different GMs will rule differently on. And some GMs will be offended by a raging barbarian using Arcane Strike.

There is certainly that risk.

Still, it is a swift action that is not some complicated spell (heck as I've said before, it is rather much the opposite), so it would be fairly easy to argue that it does not need 'concentration' or whatever is the restrictive term here.


Swift action does not obviate concentration, Quickened spells are swift actions and cannot be cast while raging.


If you can't activate feats, barbarians shouldn't be able to use power attack while raging.

Yes, I know that's not a solid argument. :p


while magical talent will work, unless your a casters class of some sort it never goes past caster level 1. mean arcane strike never does more then a +1 to damage and over come magic damage reductions.

alluring could easly be ruled not arcane per the FAQ since it is a relgion based meaning that it is coming from divine source. it is a debatable function.

only solid way I found of getting it for barbain class or fighter with out the aboved races are to be human,half elf or elf. Take the feat Arcane Talent at some point. for human you will need Racial heritage: elf. this allows the ablity to scale based on total character level and there is no debate on if the SLA is arcane or divine.


KainPen wrote:

while magical talent will work, unless your a casters class of some sort it never goes past caster level 1. mean arcane strike never does more then a +1 to damage and over come magic damage reductions.

alluring could easly be ruled not arcane per the FAQ since it is a relgion based meaning that it is coming from divine source. it is a debatable function.

only solid way I found of getting it for barbain class or fighter with out the aboved races are to be human,half elf or elf. Take the feat Arcane Talent at some point. for human you will need Racial heritage: elf. this allows the ablity to scale based on total character level and there is no debate on if the SLA is arcane or divine.

Not true. A tiefling's SLA is at character level, and most of them are considered arcane. Same with Aasimar.

Sovereign Court

KainPen's point about Alluring is valid: since SLAs from Domains are Divine, even though they mimic Arcane-only spells sometimes, it's possible that the same logic applies to SLAs from religion traits.

On the other hand, Aasimar SLAs are not Divine by default, no matter how celestial the character may seem.

Expect table variation?


Eldritch heritage feat with the dreamspun bloodline gives lullaby (a level 0 bard spell) as a SLA, however it is not clear what the CL is.


thorin001 wrote:
KainPen wrote:

while magical talent will work, unless your a casters class of some sort it never goes past caster level 1. mean arcane strike never does more then a +1 to damage and over come magic damage reductions.

alluring could easly be ruled not arcane per the FAQ since it is a relgion based meaning that it is coming from divine source. it is a debatable function.

only solid way I found of getting it for barbain class or fighter with out the aboved races are to be human,half elf or elf. Take the feat Arcane Talent at some point. for human you will need Racial heritage: elf. this allows the ablity to scale based on total character level and there is no debate on if the SLA is arcane or divine.

Not true. A tiefling's SLA is at character level, and most of them are considered arcane. Same with Aasimar.

look at the OP post he does not want to be Aasimar or a Tiefling. so the only way for him to get the ability is the above mention way. I never said Aasimar, or Teifling would not work. They don't work with in the scope of what the op is asking.

cnetarian that is a good find, the caster level would be -2 minus total character level according to the feat, you could be any race not just elf, human or half- elf, it still requires two feats to get it (skill focus and Eldridge heritage) but it is an option. It becomes a lot better if you can take improved Eldridge heritage for nice boost to initiative rolls. but does require you to not use CHA as dump stat.

Scarab Sages

Bloodrager? How about Savage Skald bard archetype? You could take a dip in bard, sorcerer, magus would probably be best. That way you can use wands as well.


Human, gain Racial Heritage(Elf). Then gain Arcane Talent. You'll get a scaling Caster Level with the LV0 cantrip, and you can get Arcane Strike.

EDIT: Sorry for the necro post.


Some Other Guy wrote:
I've been scouring the Internet for ways to accomplish this. I REALLY want to be human and I REALLY want to take Arcane Strike, but the only ways I can find to have an arcane SLA is to use a race that I don't really want to use (Aasimar, Tiefling, Duergar, etc). Is there a particular feat or rage power or inexpensive item that will grant an arcane SLA?

The trait alluring grants the ability to cast Daze 1/day with a caster level equal to your HD. As a result you can pick it up via Extra Traits or starting traits (if applicable) to get a scaling caster level.


Lightbringer is a trait from Inner Sea Gods that grants light as an SLA. It uses character level as caster level. Requires that you worship Sarenrae.


Gisher wrote:
Lightbringer is a trait from Inner Sea Gods that grants light as an SLA. It uses character level as caster level. Requires that you worship Sarenrae.

Yeah.... Sarenrae worshippers get a bunch of nice things.

If you optimizing, you are not doing much wrong if you pick either Desna, Sarenrae, or Iomedae. A selection of female gods from across the whole good sprectrum, and all are rather decent choices with weapons, domains, and/or random specific options like feats or traits.


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thorin001 wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Expect not to be able to use Arcane Strike while raging. You are tapping into spells/SLAs which you cannot use while raging.
You're only using Arcane Strike, you're not casting spells. I'm not sure if I would define Arcane Strike as "requiring patience or concentration", since it's something you casually do as a swift action every round, in addition to doing a lot of other things. And it doesn't look like any of the other things you're not allowed to do.

I did not say that it was against RAW, because it is not. It is however a gray area that different GMs will rule differently on. And some GMs will be offended by a raging barbarian using Arcane Strike.

Some GMs are blatantly and obviously wrong then.


The Lantern Bearer trait
Source Occult Mysteries pg. 37
You can cast light three times per day as a spell-like ability, treating your character level as your caster level.

You don't have to be a Sarenrae worshipper to get a arcane SLA that uses your level as caster level.

So human barbarian is good to go by using 1 of it's 2 traits.


Theoretically you could Arcane Strike and then rage. Yeah you don't get more action but it's an option even if your GM says no to Rage + Arcane Strike.

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