Can we please get an FAQ posted for damage dice increases?


Rules Questions

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6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Keep in mind they may now be very aware of this but this is something not to just knee jerk rule on it. They may have to consider it carefully before it causes game breaking consequences

Lantern Lodge

I don't think it's too terribly possible to screw up the game form damage dice progression. Maybe in a corner case, but honestly the hard part is to make sure whatever ruling they use is consistent with already published information.

Sczarni

honestly they don't have to worry about their ruling in this regard.

There's nothing beyond what's published, so if they said the next unpublished damage die was 2d20's that's be legit as if they said 84d6 or 15d4s...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Bandwagons, I rides them!


I would love an answer to this myself. I had a size changing Titan Mauler in a game, and would really have appreciated having a solid size adjustment to weapon damage chart, that went beyond large. Or, some consistent idea of how to scale them myself.

Sovereign Court

What's the record for most FAQs requested?


I snagged FAQ #200. Do I win a prize? Oh I know!!! How about an answer!?

>.>


I'm sure this question will come up even more with the release of the ACG in August. Warpriest shenanigans at higher levels that are doing 2d8 damage and then wondering where it goes from there once enlarged, and then adding impact or bashing enchants to weapons and shields.

Liberty's Edge

My Shoanti Warpriest uses the Thunder and Fang feat. Its prerequisite is Weapon Focus in both Earthbreaker and Klar, so they both become Sacred Weapons.

By level 5 I'll be putting Bashing on my Klar, changing its base damage (as a Sacred Weapon) from 1d8 to... 2d8? 3d6?

Would be nice to know for sure what it goes to after that when I drink my potion of Enlarge Person.

edit: derped on the math


Don't forget the fun time that is the Warpriest of Irori with Enlarge Person, Impact/Lead Blades, and Strong Jaw.

Better yet, something like a Catfolk Warpriest with the above and Imp. Natural Attack on top of it!

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Impact doesn't work with Unarmed Strikes, and Lead Blades doesn't work with Strong Jaw. There's an argument to be made that INA doesn't work with Strong Jaw, either.

But yeah, the Warpriest adds a whole other element to this (and another reason why it needs to be clarified before the class gets rolled out).


Lead Blades and Strong Jaw should work together; Lead Blades increases the effective size of the weapon while Strong Jaw increases the effective size of the creature. Neither spell is of the polymorph school so there is no problem there.

Hell, if one wants to get even crazier, go Feral Combat Training and start using Enlarge Person, Lead Blades, Animal Aspect - Gorilla, Imp. Natural Attack and Strong Jaw.

That's a 6 step increase in damage dice right there. Out of all of these, the ones that might not stack with each other are Enlarge Person with Strong Jaw (creature size) and Lead Blades with Imp. Natural Attack (weapon size). Animal Aspect stacks with all of it because it simply advances the damage die of the unarmed strike (which benefits a natural weapon with Feral Combat Training).

At the bare minimum, using only things that absolutely stack together, then as a Catfolk Warpriest I'd go for something like the following:
1) Bonus - Weapon Focus (Claws); Feral Combat Training
3) Power Attack; Bonus - (blank; maybe Vital Strike?)
5) Imp. Natural Attack

After 5th level, seek out some Wands of Animal Aspect and Strong Jaw and just go to town from there on. At this point, assuming you have the benefit of the two spells, you should be dealing 4d6 points of damage with your claws.

Might even take a MoMS dip at 7th so I could get Dragon Style (normal feat) and Dragon Ferocity (MoMS bonus) to be getting 1.5 str on all attacks.

Hmmm.... Yeah, that's going to be the next NPC I roll up for my gallery :P

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

See the thread I linked above to make your case. It's a subtly different topic than the point of this thread.


Nefreet wrote:
See the thread I linked above to make your case. It's a subtly different topic than the point of this thread.

Your thread is about Bashing and Shield Spikes, not whether or not Lead Blades stacks with Strong Jaw or Enlarge Person with Lead Blades. And, quite frankly, I don't really care too much about what does and does not stack too much as I'm going to run it my own way regardless.


F to the A to the Q to the apostrophe d...'d.


This is a chart that I think we could all use. Thanks for this thread.

Over 200 FAQs


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Keep in mind that the design team has stated that the number of FAQs does not mean the question is more likely to get answered in a short amount of time.

There is only one way to increase the speed and likliehood of your FAQ getting answered, though Paizo claims this doesn't work. That is to create a hate thread that bashed Paizo about not answering/fixing a problem. They claim it doesn't work, but, as far as I've seen, every time such a thread forms, the FAQ in question typically gets answered shortly thereafter. For example: Ice Tomb Hex.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Tels wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
See the thread I linked above to make your case. It's a subtly different topic than the point of this thread.
Your thread is about Bashing and Shield Spikes, not whether or not Lead Blades stacks with Strong Jaw or Enlarge Person with Lead Blades. And, quite frankly, I don't really care too much about what does and does not stack too much as I'm going to run it my own way regardless.

That would be a discussion best left to the Homebrew Forum, then, and not the Rules Forum.

The question in the other thread isn't specifically about Shield Spikes & Bashing, that's just one of the examples.

It's asking the broader question about whether multiple damage dice increases (that don't actually increase in size) stack together.


Yes! Yes! Yes! FAQ! FAQ! FAQ!

Some dissenters might say "Pathfinder is oriented around medium PCs, you shouldn't need charts beyond that!"

Rebuttals
1. DUNGEON MASTERS NEED IT
2. Druids and Animal Companions need this clarification
3. Wizards/Sorcerers need it for a wide variety of Polymorphing spells
4. Summoners can have huge Eidolons before buffing, these eidolons can sometimes wield weapons.
5. Melee classes can choose to use inappropriately sized weapons at penalty.
6. Telekensis
7. The Impact Weapon Quality
8. Improved Natural Attack


This was an issue in 3.5 as well, so it'd be nice to see it settled. You'd have thought they'd have made just one table for all increases/decreases at the start of 3.0, but two revisions later and the rules are still scattered.

I've always leaned towards using the two Improved Natural Attack progressions for all increases and decreases, though it's a bit awkward to expand that progression by having 1d10 reduce to 1d8 (since 1d8 typically increases to 2d6). It's all that d10's fault!


Faq'd, fav'd

Grand Lodge

I've made a Tengu Warpreist with Weapon Focus on Claws and eventually on Bite. I want to know what happens if I get Strong Jaw cast on me. The Warpriest table (in the Playtest material) only lists variations for Small and Large.


FAQ 235


I'm running a Gestalt campaign, and the Monk/Druid is using the monk's Unarmed Strike damage dice progression in tandem with Wild Shape. It's...it's been...I've had nightmares of d8's and d6's.


The number of FAQs this has gotten is truly impressive. It's got to be a record for time alive/FAQ and number of posts/FAQ ratios.


Currently at 239 in less than a month.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Drake Brimstone wrote:
I've made a Tengu Warpreist with Weapon Focus on Claws and eventually on Bite. I want to know what happens if I get Strong Jaw cast on me. The Warpriest table (in the Playtest material) only lists variations for Small and Large.

You may also want to check out THIS THREAD and FAQ it as well.

It's a subtly different question than this thread is asking.


This. . . Would be a wonderful thing to have. The group I'm in tends to go with the INA feat progression, but that's an imperfect progression and has clear limits.

Although, we can extrapolate it out, it would not be the ideal with no clearly defined rule for the subject.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

What are some other player's houserules?

I think the common practice I've seen is to use the INA progression, even for characters/creatures that don't have the feat.

Does anyone use anything different from those I proposed in the first post?


FAQ +1!

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Wow. 259 hits so far. Thanks everybody =).

I wonder if there's any chance it'll climb to 300?


I just guess tbh, since there is basically no help.

Even hero lab is totally wrong on this, if you take a carnivorous crystal and make it large sized its attack goes from 7d8 to 8d8, lol

Lone Wolf Development

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey, we'd (by which I mean the data author team at HL) like some clarity on this too! I don't know what the next step up or down from 7d8 is either!

I'll toss my FAQ onto the pile as well, for what it is worth.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I guessed it was 13d8 personally, because 8d8 goes to 14d8 I think.

This is one of those faqs where no one actually cares what the answer will be, we just want something


Rhatahema wrote:

This was an issue in 3.5 as well, so it'd be nice to see it settled. You'd have thought they'd have made just one table for all increases/decreases at the start of 3.0, but two revisions later and the rules are still scattered.

I've always leaned towards using the two Improved Natural Attack progressions for all increases and decreases, though it's a bit awkward to expand that progression by having 1d10 reduce to 1d8 (since 1d8 typically increases to 2d6). It's all that d10's fault!

The 3.5 Rules Compendium (pg 152) had a damage progression table that progressed the various damage dice (1d2 up to 2d20) four steps up and down. So they actually did settle the "issue" and put it in one place. Just happens to be a book most people don't own I guess.

1d10 progressed to 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8.


I'm kinda hoping they take a while to answer this one just so I can see how far up the number of FAQ requests goes. oO

Anyone taking bets yet?

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just had this come up again during my last game, and I told the player I'd bring it to the top so he could read it and FAQ it.


Lemmy wrote:

I'm kinda hoping they take a while to answer this one just so I can see how far up the number of FAQ requests goes. oO

Anyone taking bets yet?

I'll bet 87 quatloos that it hits 300 before June 16th.

Lantern Lodge

You know, most of the time they change the name of the thread when it's inappropiately titled like this. That means one of three things:

A: They haven't seen the thread yet (unlikely, but if true, very shocking)
B: They have seen the thread, are aware of the issue, and are working to fix it.
C: They've seen the thread and just don't care (!!!!!)


D: "They" doesn't work at Paizo anymore and no one who works there now is annoyed by the thread title.

Shadow Lodge

I wonder what the recorded highest FAQ's requested from a single post is... I'd bet it is somewhere near 282 though.


Tels wrote:

Lead Blades and Strong Jaw should work together; Lead Blades increases the effective size of the weapon while Strong Jaw increases the effective size of the creature. Neither spell is of the polymorph school so there is no problem there.

Hell, if one wants to get even crazier, go Feral Combat Training and start using Enlarge Person, Lead Blades, Animal Aspect - Gorilla, Imp. Natural Attack and Strong Jaw.

That's a 6 step increase in damage dice right there. Out of all of these, the ones that might not stack with each other are Enlarge Person with Strong Jaw (creature size) and Lead Blades with Imp. Natural Attack (weapon size). Animal Aspect stacks with all of it because it simply advances the damage die of the unarmed strike (which benefits a natural weapon with Feral Combat Training).

Animal aspect does not stack with enlarge person. Both are polymorph effects, and a character can only be under the influence of one polymorph effect at a time.

Grand Lodge

blahpers wrote:
Tels wrote:

Lead Blades and Strong Jaw should work together; Lead Blades increases the effective size of the weapon while Strong Jaw increases the effective size of the creature. Neither spell is of the polymorph school so there is no problem there.

Hell, if one wants to get even crazier, go Feral Combat Training and start using Enlarge Person, Lead Blades, Animal Aspect - Gorilla, Imp. Natural Attack and Strong Jaw.

That's a 6 step increase in damage dice right there. Out of all of these, the ones that might not stack with each other are Enlarge Person with Strong Jaw (creature size) and Lead Blades with Imp. Natural Attack (weapon size). Animal Aspect stacks with all of it because it simply advances the damage die of the unarmed strike (which benefits a natural weapon with Feral Combat Training).

Animal aspect does not stack with enlarge person. Both are polymorph effects, and a character can only be under the influence of one polymorph effect at a time.

Uh, Enlarge Person is most definitely not a polymorph effect, as the spell lacks the polymorph tag.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jeff Merola wrote:
Enlarge Person is most definitely not a polymorph effect, as the spell lacks the polymorph tag.
Enlarge Person wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Draco18s wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
I highlighted the 10d6 from the 1d12 line because it seems out of place. 12d6 makes more sense, and that's the only instance of 8d6 going to 10d6, when two other times it increases to 12d6. *shrug*
Actually there's three. Also one of 8d8 going to 12d8. I've highlighted all four.

What I meant was that the 10d6 was out of place. 8d6 and 8d8 fit nicely, but 10d6 should have probably been 12d6.

Grand Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Enlarge Person is most definitely not a polymorph effect, as the spell lacks the polymorph tag.
Enlarge Person wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Well, yes, I should've been clearer in that they don't stack, but it's not because they're both polymorph effects (because they aren't).

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