Metamagic Rod of Heighten, Does it exist?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I have not been able to find if this metamagic rod has been listed in a pathfinder publication. If it is listed could you point out the publication that it is in? If it is not a currently an item how would you have such an item function?


No, it does not exist, and it would be very hard to price such a rod because of the variable levels that can be added with heighten metamagic if someone made custom version.


It looks like you could theoretically do this with custom creation rules if you look at: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/ringsRodsStaves/rods.h tml

A +1 minor: 3k, +2 minor: 9k, +3 minor: 14k.
+1 normal: 11k, +2: 32.5k, +3: 54k
+1 greater: 24.5k, +2: 73k, +3: 121.5k

Thus a minor Heighten rod +2 could be 9k. I don't see anything wrong with this unless someone else can show its OP. And off the top of my head I'm not seeing a pattern how you'd extrapolate a +4 and beyond with these, but there might be one you could use.


It cant exist by the rules actually. Heres the thing. Metamagic Rods never change your slot they are Free action Bam metamagic feat happens.

Heres the problem, That does not work with highten. A Highten Spell /has/ to go in the Slot that it is cast as. If a spell is considered say a level 6 spell there is no way in the game to lower that spell so it is cast in a level 5 slot.

So every spell effected by the highten metamagic feat is of the level it has been heightend to and /must/ use that level of slot.

Or i should say such an item does not work for prepared casters. It would work fine for spontanious casters.


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It would work like any other meta rod that is supposed to use up your higher slots. You can use it 3 times a day.

Using the above prices it would be a fixed heighten instead of variable.


Mojorat wrote:

It cant exist by the rules actually. Heres the thing. Metamagic Rods never change your slot they are Free action Bam metamagic feat happens.

Heres the problem, That does not work with highten. A Highten Spell /has/ to go in the Slot that it is cast as. If a spell is considered say a level 6 spell there is no way in the game to lower that spell so it is cast in a level 5 slot.

So every spell effected by the highten metamagic feat is of the level it has been heightend to and /must/ use that level of slot.

Or i should say such an item does not work for prepared casters. It would work fine for spontanious casters.

I don't understand what you're saying here.


I'll try this again

Fireball is a level 3 spell, there is no way to cast fireball as a level 2 spell. If it were a computer program it would be one of those hard coded rules. Or you can think of it as a law of the universe. Whatever you think of it as the rules of the game are right now this rule cannot be broken.

When, You use Heighten Fireball becomes a Sixth level spell. it uses a Spell Slot for a level 6 Spell. As far as the game is concerned a Fireball is a level 6 spell in every way shape or form.

With me so far?

Alrighty, now Your a wizard with fireball memorized in a lvl 3 spot because it is a levle 3 spell. You have your newly aquired Metamagic rod of hieghten spell. What Slot would the spell use?

Now if your first thought is 'well it would be a level 3 slot?" remember earlier the rule that i said cant be broken by anything in the game.

Heighten spell does not work with any metamagic reduction methods in the game, You cannot cast a spell below its level and as soon as Heighten metamagic is applied it /must/ use the new slot level of its new level.

Ergo a metamagic rod of heighten cant exist.

However, id like to reiterate im not sure if anything i have just said is actually written down anywhere. Alot of it is extrapolation from rules that dont exist.. Ie the ones giving permission to cast a spell bellow its level.

Anyhow i hope that all made sense.


Mojorat, honestly very little of that made any sense. At least to me. Let me try to state this as plainly as I can.

"Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell-like abilities) as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell."

This means if I find a quickened rod and cast it on a 2nd spell level spell like Web, I don't need to have a 6th level slot to use it. It uses the 2nd level slot I was going to use it with. Even if I'm 3rd level and don't have 6th level slots, its still just a 2nd level slot. Thats kind of the point of meta rods. Use MM feats I don't have and cast stuff without increasing the spell slot level. Thus its irrelevant if the Heighten is a +1 spell level, +2, or +3. It's using the same spell slot regardless. This is partly why some are so expensive like quicken which as a normal feat would be +4 spell level slot.

Thus, what I've been talking about is doing it as a fixed system. The heighten rod is the same +spell level every time you use it. A +2 lesser heighten rod will make that 3rd level spell (fireball) a 5th level spell or make your first level grease a 3rd level spell etc.


Matt with normal metamagic the spell's actual level does not change. With heighten it does, and metamagic rods go by the actual level.

So if you have fireball(3rd) level and you have a metamagic rod of empower then it is still a 3rd level spell.

With a rod of heighten the spell could be heightened to 6th level making it an actual 6th level spell so a heighten(least) rod which only works on 1st to 3rd level spells no longer applies because the rod has just taken the spell out of the range it is supposed to work on.

But then again I guess calling it a rod is not important as long as you get the affect of the heighten, and in that case a fixed item would be the best thing, but it would not work with the metamagic rod rules. It would have to be adhoc'd.


MattR1986 wrote:

Mojorat, honestly very little of that made any sense. At least to me. Let me try to state this as plainly as I can.

"Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell-like abilities) as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell."

This means if I find a quickened rod and cast it on a 2nd spell level spell like Web, I don't need to have a 6th level slot to use it. It uses the 2nd level slot I was going to use it with. Even if I'm 3rd level and don't have 6th level slots, its still just a 2nd level slot. Thats kind of the point of meta rods. Use MM feats I don't have and cast stuff without increasing the spell slot level. Thus its irrelevant if the Heighten is a +1 spell level, +2, or +3. It's using the same spell slot regardless. This is partly why some are so expensive like quicken which as a normal feat would be +4 spell level slot.

Thus, what I've been talking about is doing it as a fixed system. The heighten rod is the same +spell level every time you use it. A +2 lesser heighten rod will make that 3rd level spell (fireball) a 5th level spell or make your first level grease a 3rd level spell etc.

I don't understand why its sohei hard to underztand. You can't cast a lvl 6 spell from a lvl 3 spell slot. Every metamagic reducing effect Minkai th game does not work on heighten. For this reason.

Essentially your item would btech dping smething the metamagic feat wa not intended to do.


wraithstrike wrote:

Matt with normal metamagic the spell's actual level does not change. With heighten it does, and metamagic rods go by the actual level.

So if you have fireball(3rd) level and you have a metamagic rod of empower then it is still a 3rd level spell.

With a rod of heighten the spell could be heightened to 6th level making it an actual 6th level spell so a heighten(least) rod which only works on 1st to 3rd level spells no longer applies because the rod has just taken the spell out of the range it is supposed to work on.

But then again I guess calling it a rod is not important as long as you get the affect of the heighten, and in that case a fixed item would be the best thing, but it would not work with the metamagic rod rules. It would have to be adhoc'd.

Who cares? A normal spell can't be cast as a swift action either. Quicken is just another effect just as Heighten is an effect that just changes the existing level a spell is cast at. All that really does is change spell dc and the spell for the purpose of globes of inv. Its not effectively changing a 1st level spell like magic missile to be on par with fireball. The other mm feats do that far more than heighten.

If you just interpret it as lesser rod means the spells starting level it works just fine. It really doesn't matter that you've pushed a web spell to technically be 4th level. There's nothing in the rules for a heighten rod but using the above system its easily added.

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