I need to get my Will save up! Or get a curse lifted…
My PC has contracted lycanthropy, and now has the weretiger template. He’s a melee-focused inquisitor 4/vivisectionist alchemist 1 (with Precise Strike and Sneak Attack), so this has the potential to be extremely effective in combat, doing claw/claw/bite/rake/rake with +2d6 on each hit when flanking.
The downside, as my GM is playing it, is I have to make a DC 20 Will save to avoid turning into the hybrid form under stress, and if I get a critical on an opponent, I have to make a DC25 Will save to keep from going on a mad killing spree, attacking everything until I run out of targets.
My current Will save is +8, based on level, Wisdom, and a +1 Cloak of Resistance. I just leveled to 5th, so will likely take Iron Will, and I could take Additional Traits at 7th to pick up some traits that help with the Will save, but that feels a bit weird if they don’t fit with the character’s story (Indomitable Faith would be a good fit, though).
What else can I use to get my Will save up as high as possible?
At 5th level? Might as well retire the character. The first time you get a crit, you're likely to run around attacking everything until your teammates need to put you down.
You can't afford most of the options for raising your Will save. You probably already have a +2 Wisdom Headband, and can't afford the +4 version.
You might be able to afford an upgraded Cloak of Resistance, but who knows. +3 or higher is out.
The Ioun Stone that adds to your saves is out, though I think the one that only adds to one save (in this case, Will) is more affordable.
Iron Will will help, but that's still only a +2, meaning you still need a 15 or higher to avoid killing everything or getting killed.
Additional Traits is only a +1, and you'd have to wait until 7th to get it, so it's effectively worthless to you. Things will come to a head before that point.
If you manage to make it that far (which I don't see as likely unless your teammates are both incredibly resilient and patient, willing to knock you unconscious every time you go berserk while you're trying to kill them and possibly infect them as well), Improved Iron Will for a re-roll 1/day is a better option.
Remove Curse is an Inquisitor Spell, so you need only get a Scroll of it, or wait until you are high enough level.
This will cost you 375 gp.
The Will save will eventually fail.
Your focus should simply be on ridding yourself of the Curse.
If need be, buy more scrolls.
But it only works within 3 days of contracting the Curse.
And only if you're 12th level.
And a Cleric.
I agree with trying.to get rid.of.it. Talk.to your GM about a side quest to.cure yourself.
Get rid of the curse. It is called a curse for a reason. Unless your character is someone who wants to go on crazy killing rampages (and if so, who cares about getting the will save up) he would focused on keeping from turning into a murderous beast. No matter how high your will save is, a 1 would automatically fail and you will go on a killing spree.
Get rid of the curse.
As I already stated, this ship has sailed. There's no removing it after 3 days even if they did have access to a 12th level Cleric with Remove Curse or Heal.
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But it only works within 3 days of contracting the Curse.Remove Curse is an Inquisitor Spell, so you need only get a Scroll of it, or wait until you are high enough level.
This will cost you 375 gp.
The Will save will eventually fail.
Your focus should simply be on ridding yourself of the Curse.
If need be, buy more scrolls.
You are thinking of Remove Disease or Heal.
Remove Curse will work, even after the 3 days, but after further investigation, must be cast by a Cleric(or other caster capable of doing so) of 12th level or higher.
This will cost 360 gp for spellcasting services.
I should have mentioned, this particular lycanthropy curse has an unusual way of getting rid of it - though I don't yet know what that is. So for the time being I'm trying to figure out how to cope with it.
But it only works within 3 days of contracting the Curse.Remove Curse is an Inquisitor Spell, so you need only get a Scroll of it, or wait until you are high enough level.
This will cost you 375 gp.
The Will save will eventually fail.
Your focus should simply be on ridding yourself of the Curse.
If need be, buy more scrolls.
You are thinking of Remove Disease or Heal.
Remove Curse will work, even after the 3 days, but after further investigation, must be cast by a Cleric(or other caster capable of doing so) of 12th level or higher.
This will cost 360 gp for spellcasting services.
I think you're mistaken. The way to remove it, as it says on the page, is to cast Remove Disease or Heal within 3 days of turning.
Remove Curse does not seem to work.
On the Curses page, in the table next to "Lycanthropy", where everything else has a way to remove it (including one that says "Remove Curse"), it has a blank entry under that section.
If it were as simple as slapping a Remove Curse ( a mere 3rd level spell, with no expensive material components) on a guy vs a DC 15 caster level check, there would be no Afflicted Lycanthropes, ever.
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So, homebrew Lycanthropy, with homebrew cure, that nobody knows?
Well, I suggest retirement, or just run with killing the rest of the party.
No matter how high your will save is, you will eventually fail.
You could ask your teammates to take you out of your misery.
With this, you are good as dead, and the DM basically has you as a mindless undead attacking your party, whilst you nod, and roll a dice, that really serves no purpose.
Give the PC to your DM.
It's his NPC now.
I feel your pain. Once had a magic user (ad&d) contract lycanthropy... not good for a magic user. I lost control and attacked a samurai village infecting the leaders son. He was pretty mad and threatening war on my small.little.city I.just created.
I was on a quest for an alchemical item to.fix.this. maybe your GM would allow.it. or.give your allies a control.device, shackles, muzzle or something.
Ah. I haven't read Blood of the Moon.
So you have to cast it while he's transforming, as a 12th level Cleric.
'Kay.
I wouldn't go that far, BBT. I was going to suggest living in the bottom of a 40' pit until your companions figure out whatever contrived solution the GM comes up with. A player who quits the second his character has a problem that he can't solve in a few melee rounds is not quite the heroic archetype.
Sitting out of the game for what could be multiple sessions is not very fun.
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I wouldn't go that far, BBT. I was going to suggest living in the bottom of a 40' pit until your companions figure out whatever contrived solution the GM comes up with. A player who quits the second his character has a problem that he can't solve in a few melee rounds is not quite the heroic archetype.
You sit through sessions, as someone else plays your PC?
Are you even playing?
What's wrong with wanted to have a PC, that they can actually play?
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The thing is, there is no reason to increase his Will Save.
He will fail, eventually.
If anything, the DM will simply have him fail, no matter his roll.
He also has given no recourse.
The best choice, is simply ask the DM what he wants, and ask if he can play a different PC, until his current PC is functional again.
So, a temporary "retirement", is in order.
I wouldn't waste character resources on raising the will save until a curse is lifted (although good will saves are useful anyway, an upping the priority on something you were going to do anyway makes sense.)
I would expect you to be able to find a way to get rid of this curse within a level. In the meantime, it seems like it could be a fun role-playing challenge if you are willing to embrace this in character. Taking measures to avoid stressful situations, entering combat only as a last resort because you are aware of the risks of going berserk. Desperately searching for a cure. Perhaps coming discussing with your friends how to deal with it if things go bad and making preparations.
After a while this would get very old, and yes, you won't be very effective at DPR while you are trying to mitigate the risk of killing everyone you care about, but if you make it yours I think it could be a lot of fun.
Well, you are an inquisitor—it's not as bad as if you were a fighter or something. You could just get buffing stuff and focus on that. Maybe do some summoning, if you have Use Magic Device trained. Avoid direct combat.
Honestly, though, I suggest pointing this out to your GM. Not sure he thought this through.
Alternatively, deliberately embrace your powers and roleplay the "Evil, but still looks after his old pals" guy. That'll teach the GM to Jacobify you! ;D
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I just think the focus on resources, are futile.
If the DM has some crazy homebrew cure, then it will be provided.
If the DM never wants you to be cured, you are, at best, delaying the eventual death of the PC/party.
Whatever the DM has cooked up, you will need to go to him on how to handle it.
No amount of Will Save boosting will change this.
Problem is, that's not an option.
Soon as he rolls a crit he goes from "Affably Evil" to "RIP AND TEAR! RIP AND TEAR! RIP AND TEAR THE GUTS!"
I may need to check the rules.
*Elevator music*
Okay, a couple things. First, how do we know wolfsbane doesn't work after three days?
A remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within 3 days of the infecting lycanthrope's attack. Alternatively, consuming a dose of wolfsbane (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 560) gives an afflicted lycanthrope a new Fortitude save to recover from lycanthropy.
This seems to imply the three-day limit only applies to the easy spells.
Anyways, I thought afflicted lycanthropes turned into normal lycanthropes if they willingly used their powers and went Evil. My mistake.
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On the one hand.. I play a lot of Vampire and PC killing rages aren't unheard of, but rarely kill other PCs. If a killing frenzy happens other PCs either run/hide, or use Fear effects to chase off the frenzying PC, or stake that PC. (In Vampire, staking only paralyzes.)
In PF, the other PCs could try distracting you with illusions or summoned monsters.
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On the other hand. I've played a PF game where the dwarf fighter had nightmares, and would go on a killing frenzy. After this happened a couple of times and nearly killed the other PCs, we told the GM that if this went on the dwarf would be kicked out of the party (and we were traveling in the high mountains), because keeping such a dangerous PC close by was just insane.
The dwarf took a cleric level, had some mystic initiation stuff and thereafter the chance of killing spree was drastically reduced. Also, the player didn't show up a lot so he fell behind in XP, and we got a bigger badder fighter in the party, so the problem diminished.
But, to be clear; this was supposed to be a "flavor thing" that was way out of hand until we put an ultimatum to the GM.
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In your case: have you had the killing frenzy yet? I suppose your GM wants to give the group a good scare. I thing you should indulge him if you can set it up so that nobody dies.
After that, tell the GM that given how serious this is, you can't keep playing this character until a cure is found. Put him at the bottom of the pit mentioned earlier, while you play his "long-lost brother" who's come to help quest for the cure. Be very clear that said brother is NOT INTERESTED in any other plot, he's just here to help find the cure.
If you can't actually quest for the cure because another plot takes precedence, then retire the PC (and the brother). They've gone away to seek a cure on their own.
You could see if your party members can accommodate you by flying and letting you hulk out in melee. While you wait for the story to progress to the part when you get cured or whatever your GM has planned.
In the meantime, it seems like it could be a fun role-playing challenge if you are willing to embrace this in character. Taking measures to avoid stressful situations, entering combat only as a last resort because you are aware of the risks of going berserk. Desperately searching for a cure. Perhaps coming discussing with your friends how to deal with it if things go bad and making preparations.
After a while this would get very old, and yes, you won't be very effective at DPR while you are trying to mitigate the risk of killing everyone you care about, but if you make it yours I think it could be a lot of fun.
This is more or less how I'm hoping to approach this. The DM is not an unreasonable fellow, and I don't think he intends for me to have to give up the character as unplayable. This affliction just happened at the end of our game session a couple of days ago, so we have not had a chance to talk about it in any detail or play out any investigation of how to get rid of the curse.
I'll point out that the first sentences of my original post indicated that I wanted to raise my Will save or get the curse lifted. Now that I'm clear just how impractical it will be to continue to operate under the curse, I believe I know which way to go.
You could see if your party members can accommodate you by flying and letting you hulk out in melee.
I suggested something like this, that I could be the nuclear option in a fight. Only the barbarian disagreed, so that could be fun...
I would ask the GM could the party try to keep your character in a pit. Meanwhile they run into your new character whose only purpose is to keep the player in the game while they find a cure for the old character.
PS: I dont think the GM thought this one out.
(rest of party flees room and spikes door)
Boss Monster: Your friends have abandoned you! The hammering of those spikes may as well be nails in your coffin!
Alchemist: Oh, they're not spiking the door to protect themselves from you...
This was awesome.
(rest of party flees room and spikes door)
Boss Monster: Your friends have abandoned you! The hammering of those spikes may as well be nails in your coffin!
Alchemist: Oh, they're not spiking the door to protect themselves from you...
Zigackly!
Mreeoowwr!
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I would ask the GM could the party try to keep your character in a pit. Meanwhile they run into your new character whose only purpose is to keep the player in the game while they find a cure for the old character.
PS: I dont think the GM thought this one out.
I dunno. This is one of those things where as a GM, you have to say "trust me, I know what I'm doing with this story twist".
And that only works if you actually have the players' trust. But then it could be really neat.
Any chance you have an Oracle of either Heavens or Lunar in your group? If they had Mantle of Moonlight they would be able to knock you back into humanoid form and hopefully you would not have to shift again or at least get another save.
We don't have an Oracle at all, but this is an interesting idea, and it's not an ability I had heard of. I might suggest to the DM that we find/buy/make an item that does something like this.
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If your GM is letting you be a weretiger (albeit unwillingly) take that and go. That sounds like a fun group. What I think you should try and do is work with your GM to make the save DCs a bit more reasonable, by both investing in gear as mentioned above and talking to your GM to balance things a bit better. Maybe see if he will house rule a bonus to your saves if you role play your transformation well, and make the effects of failing your save a little less harsh. Remember it is up to the GM to make the game balanced and enjoyable, and most will be willing to work with you if you have a good idea for a character concept (such as how you will handle being a weretiger) that makes the game more enjoyable for everyone, instead of turning you into a liability that makes everyone bite their nails over whether or not you will turn. For instance, in a home game that I am running, one of my characters is a sleeper agent for a hostile faction, but instead of trying to get it removed, he roleplays it well, and I go out of my way to write moments for his character, as I do for all of my characters with interesting backstories, and eventually his character will be rewarded at a major turning point in the story. Not everything needs to be done mechanically.
If you could talk your GM into having it be Confusion for a set time period instead of "Yeah you rampage until everything is dead" (like a Wild Rager's Wild Rage) it could be workable.
Explain to him that as-is this is untenable...your character can't risk combat because he'll likely kill his teammates or be killed by them at some point.
An ally with owl's wisdom can drop it on you just before crisis situations. It may even be worth buying a wand - after all, even if the curse is eventually dealt with, it's not a bad spell to have available.
Pointless if he has a +2 Headband, which he should or should have soon.
I'm going to suggest you have a backup plan for if this will save does fail. There are three more individuals in this group at least, no? Figure out a worst case scenario as a group now rather than later.
A merciful amulet of mighty fists would be an interesting way to do this. Turn weretiger, suddenly your attacks are nonlethal.
retrain your last level and take a level in oracle with lunar mystery then take the mantle of moonlight revelation. While retraining don't do anything that will cause you to turn and your good.
I'm going to suggest you have a backup plan for if this will save does fail. There are three more individuals in this group at least, no? Figure out a worst case scenario as a group now rather than later.
Yeah, we started talking about heavy silver chains or a silver cage for the full moon, but haven't yet come up with a plan for what to do if we don't have any time to prep
A merciful amulet of mighty fists would be an interesting way to do this. Turn weretiger, suddenly your attacks are nonlethal.
This is brilliant! I would do a lot of damage this way: 16d6+15 on a pounce-rake, and +10d6 more if flanking. Only downside is I often use natural attacks when I'm not in weretiger form, but I'd still do a lot of damage then, just nonlethal.
I'm going to suggest you have a backup plan for if this will save does fail. There are three more individuals in this group at least, no? Figure out a worst case scenario as a group now rather than later.Yeah, we started talking about heavy silver chains or a silver cage for the full moon, but haven't yet come up with a plan for what to do if we don't have any time to prep
This is brilliant! I would do a lot of damage this way: 16d6+15 on a pounce-rake, and +10d6 more if flanking. Only downside is I often use natural attacks when I'm not in weretiger form, but I'd still do a lot of damage then, just nonlethal.A merciful amulet of mighty fists would be an interesting way to do this. Turn weretiger, suddenly your attacks are nonlethal.
It can suppress it until told otherwise. With some GM leeway this can be a creative solution, allow it to be activated by members of your team as a Standard action (Command Word) and your threat is mitigated, though not nonexistent (knocking out your teammates can still be deadly depending on location and enemy presence).
You can nonleathal people to death, you know.
You can nonleathal people to death, you know.
But it takes a significant amount more damage to do so, and presumably someone in a "killing rage" would drop one target and move on to the next until all targets are down.
Except in this case instead of bleeding out when knocked down, they'd be unconscious and wake up a few hours later.
Khel, there are two things in particular that you should get clarified by your GM:
1. Are there any other circumstances in which your character will come out of a frenzy? Such as, if your companions manage to bind you and render you helpless how long until you calm down?
2. When you frenzy do you have any form of control whatsoever? If you frenzy when there are still enemies up, will you attempt to kill your enemies before turning on your allies or do you just attack indiscriminately?
With those two answers your party can come up with contingency plans for how to react if you frenzy. Honestly it seems like it has the potential for some fun roleplaying, and really doesn't strike me as too much of a burden at all.
Good questions to ask, Xexyz. I just emailed my DM with some of the questions that have come up in this thread, and I'll include yours in my next email. Based on a couple of things he said after our game, I think the answer to question 2 is that I'd take out enemies first - as I have most cause to vent my rage on them - then allies, but I'd certainly want to have as much clarity on that as possible.
We're at a stage in the campaign where we're taking some downtime, doing some study and some people are gathering cohorts and such, so I could probably do some research on this in a semi-controlled environment (and acquire relevant magic items) and it would still fit into the story of the campaign.
I would ask the GM could the party try to keep your character in a pit. Meanwhile they run into your new character whose only purpose is to keep the player in the game while they find a cure for the old character.
PS: I dont think the GM thought this one out.
I dunno. This is one of those things where as a GM, you have to say "trust me, I know what I'm doing with this story twist".
And that only works if you actually have the players' trust. But then it could be really neat.
If he says that I will play along and see what happens. If he gets nervous or defense then I would start to worry.