The Boon Companion feat specifically says it won't allow this: "to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level". It'll bring the AC up to your level but will not under any circumstances take it higher. I doubt any GM would let you stack it with something else given the wording.
The robe of Arcane Heritage doesn't say anything about capping at your Character Level though, so in theory you could get your AC to 1 level above Character level ("treat her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal bonus", "effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level -3").
eakratz and Corvino are incorrect. You are correct.
Sylvan starts with "Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3" then is modified by Boon Companion which states, "...your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level."
That would bring your Animal Companion up to your character level. This works the same way for Rangers who take the Boon Companion feat.
Then donning the Robes of Arcane Heritage state, "The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects." There is nothing noting a cap. This would increase the bloodline powers to 4 levels higher than normal. Since you are currently at character level for determining the abilities of your Animal Companion this would increase it to 4 levels higher than your character.
Lune, I agree that RAW this should work. Boon companion's cap is, in my opinion, a guide that applies to all AC boosting. The rules intended for Animal Companions to be capped at character level, and I would be shocked if the poster found a table game that allowed the Companion to exceed this cap.
Actually Boon companion maxes out at your character level not your druid level. Since the robe of arcane heritage only increases your sorcerer (druid) level and not your character level it would not work. Normally your character level cannot be higher than the combined total of all your class levels, but the robe is the exception to the rule. The robe does not increase anything but your sorcerer level and then only for the purpose of your bloodline powers.
Your bloodline power IS your animal companion. I was anwering the question as per RAW.
Boon Companion cannot raise your animal companion higher than your character level period. Rereading the post above I will concede that the robe can raise your effective druid level to one above your character level. Boon companion will not do anything at this point because your animal companion is already higher than you character level so no longer applies.
It has nothing to do with order. All of the effects happen regardless of order.
Boon companion raises to character level. The robes increase it beyond character level. It isn't a stacking issue, they do different things.
*cough* Huntmaster Feat
"Furthermore, you are treated as one level higher when determining the abilities of your animal companion or mount, as long as it is of the chosen type."
If you have a Level 10 Sorcerer who has been Boon Companion what is his animal companion's level treated as normally? It is treated as though your druid level were your sorcerer level. A level 10 animal companion. This is what they are treated as normally.
The wording of Robe of Arcane Heritage states "The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than ****normal**** for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects."
This seems pretty simple.
IF Animal companion was a level 10 bloodline ability you could access it with the robe at level 6.
With boon companion your animal companion would still be level 6 because that is your effective druid level. The robe is just there to allow you to qualify for the power.
ChrisLKimball: That is incorrect, sir. Mostly due to the bit about, "...and their effects." It isn't there just to qualify, it actually adjusts their effects as well.
eakratz: So you are suggesting that one item makes another not work at all? Do you have anything RAW to base this opinion on? Is there any precident for this opinion?
ChrisLKimball: That is incorrect, sir. Mostly due to the bit about, "...and their effects." It isn't there just to qualify, it actually adjusts their effects as well.
I would argue that the effect is "You get an animal companion." Period. The second part is just letting you know your effective druid level, it is not a effect of the power gained.
IMHO
ChrisLKimball: So for other bloodline powers that increase the number of times per day you can use it or how much damage/healing it does you would not call this an "effect"? I'm sorry, bud. That isn't how it works. Those are all level based effects. So is your effective druid level for the animal companion.
eakratz: I am claiming that it works as written. Thats what RAW is. Rules As Written. I understand what you are claiming but there is nothing in RAW that supports your claim. It doesn't say that, "...by increasing the effective character level to beyond the maximum level of the character, invalidates the feat." That is your opinion, but it is not RAW. In other words, that is not what the rules state.
Also, it doesn't matter if another GM agrees with me on the issue or not. It doesn't matter if the OP's GM agrees with me or not. When you come to an advice forum generally you are looking for a RAW ruling, not a GM's ruling. If you want a GM's ruling... you ask the GM.
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The robes cause your blodline powers to be those of a 14th level sorcerer. The animal companion of a 14th level Sylvan Wildblooded Sorcerer is effectively 11th level. You character level is still 10, so Boon Companion raises the level by 4, to a maximum of 10. So no change. Result, 11th level companion.
Or, apply them in the other order. 10th level sorc has a level 7 companion. Boon Companion raises the companion to 10th level per feat wording. The robes now raise the sorc's effective level to 14, which allows a 11th level companion. Result, 11th level companion.
The reason they don't stack is that Boon companion works off your character level, while the robes increase your effective sorcerer level but do not change your character level at all.
This is not a stacking issue. Stacking issues apply to typed bonuses. None of the things involved here give typed bonuses.
This may seem like a symantics issue but it is not. The question should not be if they stack as this is not a stacking issue. The question is whether they both apply or not.
ryic: It doesn't matter whether the robes increase your character level or not. This item does not have the "...to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level." that Boon Companion does.
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ryic: It doesn't matter whether the robes increase your character level or not. This item does not have the "...to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level." that Boon Companion does.
Right. The robes can exceed your levels in sorcerer. Really between the feat and the robes, on a 10th level character, you have two different effects:
One increases your companion's level by 4, to a maximum of 10(your character level).
One increases your effective sorcerer level by 4, which equates to an 11th level companion.
I don't see any way to combine those two effects to get a 14. With both you are a 10th character level character with an effective 14th sorcerer level for your companion, which gives you an effective druid level of 11.
You seem to want to allow the robes to increase your companion's level by 4, but that's not what they do. They increase your sorcerer level, and the companion is a side effect of that.
I do not think I could have spelled it out any better than I did in my original post. Please refer to that.
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This is not a stacking issue. Stacking issues apply to typed bonuses. None of the things involved here give typed bonuses.
This may seem like a symantics issue but it is not. The question should not be if they stack as this is not a stacking issue. The question is whether they both apply or not.
ryic: It doesn't matter whether the robes increase your character level or not. This item does not have the "...to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level." that Boon Companion does.
With the notation that James Jacobs is not teh rules person. This is similar to the stacking of Magical Trait and Orange ioun stone. I disagree with his answer, I often do disagree with him but his stating it does have some weight on an argument.
His argument here would follow that the bonus extends in the least favorable method (as compared to 3.5 where it went most favorable).
He further states in the same thread that was referring to Caster Level and a Trait. Animal companion level and a Feat are different things.
It's not like aasimar nature oracles don't already have MUCH more powerful companions than a lowly Sylvan Sorcerer who used two feats to get that four level boost.
I do not think I could have spelled it out any better than I did in my original post. Please refer to that.
The boon companion feat works just like that trait that raises your caster level up to a certain point. The cap will not allow boon companion to take be effective in taking you past that point so its effective number will vary.
As an example if I have a feat that raises my fighter level for the purpose of selecting feats by a max of 4 but it does not allow me to go past my HD. With a wiz 4/fighter 2 I have a level 6 fighter for the purpose of feats then the feat is giving me 4 fighter levels for the purpose of feats.
Now later on lets say I get a magic item that raises my fighter level by 3 for the purpose of selecting feats. My effective fighter level does not go to 9 just because I picked up the feat first. I am still capped at 6. The feat is now just giving me 1 effective fighter level.
If the an ability says it give you a value up to X then X is variable and it will not go above any number that makes it do more than it is designed to do.
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10th level Sorcerer with Boon Companion - his AC is 10th level now. Flat out. It is - nothing can stop this from happening (short of level drain). This is the normal and rightful power of this majestic class.
Now he finds this Robe of Arcane Heritage - which boots his sorcererness by 4 levels for all effects. Suddenly his companion is less powerful than it otherwise would be? His feat is invalidated? Seems a lot less likely than it just boosting the companion.
now let these events come in a different order.
A sorceror with an AC find a robe of arcane heritage: "Cool, my AC just became 4 lvls stronger, yeah".
now as he gains a new level and has a feat to spend, and he decides he wants his AC to become even stronger, so he looks at boon companion.
BUT because he has the robe his AC is already effectively 1 lvl higher than his character level, so boon companion would do nothing at all.This can't be right. just because he found the robe before he took the feat he can no longer take the feat??
This is why a number of people on this thread, including me, are saying that this does not (or at least should not) work.
And don't come with some cheesy story about taking the robe off for a day, taking the feat and then putting the robe back on, because everybody knows that is just b******t
Conversely, I just hit level 9 as a Fighter, and I take Improved Critical (Falchion). The next play session I find a Keen Falchion. My feat made the item enchantment irrelevant.
I'm not saying that Robes of Arcane Heritage and Boon Companion shouldn't both have effect, especially with the before mentioned Aasimar Oracle getting a five level boost to their animal companion by level 10.
But saying that a feat an an item that do the same thing not both having effect at the same time has much more precedent RAW than the opinion that they should.
The Boon Companion feat will effectively do nothing once one dons the Robe of Arcane heritage. The Robe will push it above the limits of what Boon Companion allows, and thus it effect is reduced until it eithe does not exceed the limit or is 0. Since the robe and feat have the same overall affect on the animal companion donning the robe completely negates the affect of the feat.
Sometimes equipment invalidates the use of certain feats or vice versa. It makes selecting both the robe and boon companion feats a bad idea.
Seems like a simple, "Don't do it" should suffice here.
The primary reason the robe needs to go first is because it also affects what power you can use. The robe also allows you to gain higher level powers that you do not have access to because your sorcerer level is too low. A 1st level sorcerer donning the robes is treated like a 5th level sorcerer which means that he has access to his 3rd level bloodline power even though his sorcerer level is really 1st. If he has a feat that affects the bloodline power he can apply that feat to the 3rd level power.
The feat has limited benefits for a single class sorcerer, but will help a multiclass sorcerer. A 10th level character with a single level of sorcerer will have an animal companion of a 6th level druid. But a 10th level sorcerer will have an animal companion of an 11th level druid.
One thing the feat will do is to prevent your animal companion from weakening if you are level drained. Since negative levels do not change your character level the feat acts as a buffer. The first negative level will drop the animal companion of someone wearing a robe to 10 (Character level). The next four levels will not have any effect on the animal companion.
Well you can exceed your character level with an AC if you're an Aasimar Nature Oracle using the Aasimar favoured class bonuses so I can see some letting this fly, it's no more overpowered than the Oracle doing the same.
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I believe their is another way of getting an animal companion to have more hit dice than you. Become an Aasimar Oracle with the Lunar Mystery. As an Aasimar, you may choose to be considered as 1.5x your current level for determining a single revelation. One revelation gives you an animal companion as if your oracle levels counted as druid levels. Thus, at level 8, you will have a 12 level animal companion.
I would like to point out that this isn't the first time (and likely will not be the last time) that this questions has been asked. It was brought up before.
Multiple people in this thread were also posting in that thread. Also, contrary to what eakratz has said regardless of the number of people who may agree or disagree with me does not make my opinion any less (or more) correct. For that matter what James Jacobs or another Dev has to say on the matter still does not change RAW unless they actually make a change in the rules via errata or at minimum via FAQ. That hasn't been done here so we only have the rules as they are written to go by.
As was stated in the other thread (by ryric nonetheless) the robes by themselves allow you to have an AC higher than your character level. That already happens with ONLY the Robes of Arcane Heritage on a Sylvan Sorcerer. That only, then, leaves the question of whether Boon companion functions as advertised or not.
So... why wouldn't it? If it is a matter of which happened first then why not just take the Robes off then put them back on after getting the feat? I feel its silly to even have to make that arguement, honestly, but it seems to follow the same logic as the arguement predicating the statement.
To anybody who is disagreeing thinking it should let you add both: How is it that a sorcerer with Robe of Arcane Heritage (who gets a higher effective druid level than a Druid at the same level) should be able to use Boon Companion in a way that a Druid/Nature Oracle/anybody can't?
As I believe has already been pointed out, this can be done.
If you choose to abuse the rules and try to play with the higher interpretation, please be prepared to de-level your Animal Companion by three levels on a moment's notice if the GM requires it.
I also wanted to point out this thread with a ruling from SKR. It doesn't help so much in this thread except reinforce the only opinion on these issues I have seen posted from a Dev.