I would not ban Teleport but you could make the spell more costly to cast by adding expensive spell components. Have it require a 1000 gp diamond, you won't see Teleport used that often but it would be used when appropriate. If that isn't high enough make it 5000 GP.
You could also introduce cheap magic one use magic items that through up a area of effect dimensional anchor with no save that last for 1 hour. These could be used by the party as well but you could easily add them into any encounter that you want to prevent teleport from occurring.
As a campaign topic you could have teleport attract the unwanted attention of dangerous monster. Have teleporting weaken the barriers between the world and the 1st world and have evil fey creature plaguing teleporting casters.
Add mundane effect that block teleporting. Like circles of salt or salting the entrances to a room or building. Make something that anyone with can do with low DC knowledge arcana check. Make use of supersition and have apply those effects.
I think there are lots of alternative to banning a spell.
I think the difference is the movement of continents is about half an inch a year. The movement is so tiny, that except over incredibly long periods of time it seems unlikely to make a difference.
The movement of ships is tiny, over incredibly long periods of time, when you compare it to the movement of a jet liner (or flying dragon, or teleport spell...). Eventually you get to the point where you're declaring a set relative velocity as the cutoff point, and then creating all kinds of exceptions to it when that doesn't work.
Also, in terms of relative frame of reference: if you're on a raft in the ocean, not moving laterally due to a roped-off area or whatever, you've still got tidal changes in your relative altitude (i.e., constant movement). And even on land, you've got (much smaller, but still measureable) earth tides.
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How do I deal with teleport?
I don't.
There's nothing really to 'deal' with. If the argument is you can't have site based adventures, then the issue is basically you need to start making the site based adventures more then just dungeon crawls where Room 3b remains 3b until the party kicks down the door and deals with the bugbear witch assassins.
Or alternatively, make the gates holding the party up be mental based, necessitating the time needed to get past them.
For issue of travel? ...so they get high enough level that they can bypass random encounters? So what?
They still need to have been at the location they're teleporting to. Exploration via teleport is a spectacularly dodgy and nigh impossible enterprise so exploration will be conducted the 'normal way.'
The scry or die thing naturally falls into trouble on the contingent basis of them needing to be able to beat the target's will save, so as the DM this is best accomplished by keeping anything more than a portrait out of the hands of the PCs. Also the average big bad benefits from that 'areas of magical power' clause.
Its also a fair assessment to assume the teleportation spell is noisy (I remember the term audible pop being use a lot) and forgoes a surprise round. This means the attack is basically just an ambush of a sort, and while dangerous, should not be insurmountable. (A party of the level where teleport is relevant should probably have graduated from the 'sleep around the fire with Bob on watch' watch method).
Hell, a volcano is often sufficient to bollox up a teleport. Maybe thats why villains like volcano lairs.
Tactical teleporting is a bigger issue. It functions at time as a full attack delivery system. But I think its a bigger problem for me (with my 8 man party with a barb and a paladin) then the average PF DM where there's like one, maybe two at max, full bab guys.
I think the difference is the movement of continents is about half an inch a year. The movement is so tiny, that except over incredibly long periods of time it seems unlikely to make a difference.The movement of ships is tiny, over incredibly long periods of time, when you compare it to the movement of a jet liner (or flying dragon, or teleport spell...). Eventually you get to the point where you're declaring a set relative velocity as the cutoff point, and then creating all kinds of exceptions to it when that doesn't work.
Also, in terms of relative frame of reference: if you're one an anchored raft in the ocean, not moving, you've still got tidal changes in your relative altitude (i.e., constant movement). And even on land, you've got (much smaller, but still measureable) earth tides.
The movement of ships isn't tiny over incredibly long periods of time...unless your comparison is outrageous.
The movement of the continents that you mentioned or the movement of the planet through space just aren't good comparisons. Small changes in position are irrelevant, the movement of an unanchored ship is not small enough to qualify.
And you either accept it or don't, it matters very little to me. The effect is mostly negligble for my home campaigns as forcing the players to scry before teleporting onto the enemy ship has very little effect overall, except that scrolls are made to do the job instead of using spell slots. But telling them they have to teleport onto the deck of the ship instead of inside the hold is significant.
Is it established in Golarion that there are continental plates that move? I don't recall reading that.
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"So scry and fry is still exactly the same as always. And using scry and die on the party is just being a jerk GM, IMO. Used approrpriately it should kill the PCs. It would make for a very s&&*ty campaign. Ruling to nerf teleport and scry helps with justifying why the BBEG doesn't just send a pack of horned devils after you at level 7."
Thanks for the rule-post. That was helpful. I'd still rule that ship motion could cause problems -especially during high seas.
As far as the horned devils trick, yes. That's right. It's an excellent tactic. I recommend it to all my BBEG's,
But there are a few limitations.
1) The BBEG has to notice that the party exists. This is not a given. A wizard who can use this tactic is several levels higher than the party, and chances are they are just starting to get noticed by the BBEG's organization. Because the BBEG has other things on his mind, he deligates handling the matter to an underling.
And now we have another 1-3 levels of adventures before the BBEG notices that the party is a credible threat. This is a standard story-line trope BTW.
2) The BBEG has to know who the party is well enough to attempt scrying checks. Again, gathering info on the party is a resource consuming task. Even if the party get's famous the BBEG might not connect that the famous party is the party that is giving him problems.
3) I need to scry in on you, summon devils and have them teleport to you. Can the devils see into my scrying divice or only the wizard? How do the devils know where to teleport to? Do I teleport in myself and bring them with me? Not I'm interrupting my other tasks and leading a strike team. Risky and bothersome.
4) Summoning spells only last a few rounds, so I probably need to do some planar binding. that's expensive and time consuming again.
A more reliable strategy is to get a group of minnions, and include a wizard minion in the bunch. Have the wizard to my fighting for me (as a strike team).
And now we have a reason for a level-appropriate encounter that keeps the PC's on their toes.
Not a big deal really.
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I haven't run into the problem yet, as my party's still level 6, but my friend who plays a wizard is certainly planning ahead about it.
That said, he's also a wordcaster, and their version of teleport outright prevents you from teleporting somewhere you've never been to. He plans on adding it to his bonded staff, though.
It doesn't seem like too big of an issue to me, as it's too difficult to teleport to precise locations anyway, especially ones you haven't been to. If anything, i'm more amusedly concerned at his plans to use teleport as sort of a nonplanar Banishment by breaking through the saving throw and teleporting an enemy somewhere else.
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Eh. You're a raving villain. Just give the demon a description of the PCs, likely locations, and tell it to go look for them there. He'll teleport over there, kill everyone and come back. Meanwhile you scry on the heroes to see if a demon appears to kill them.
You're a villain. Who cares if a lot of people that just look like the PCs die?
I agree with PSusac and the others that assert your game changes around level 9. Wizards become adept at handling weird problems (which is what they're for). My suggestions:
1. Stick to the ruling of the spell. Those percentile rolls exist for a reason; to make the spell slightly dangerous for the unprepared caster. Never been there before? Dangerous teleport. I don't allow scrying some tom/dick/harry in that location to reveal enough to allow a safe teleport.
Also, as an escape spell, it requires everyone be touching one another, and one person touching the caster. Efficient escape? Only if everyone is ready with a move action to get near the wizard and hold on.
2. Consider logistics Are your players equipped with horses? A 9th level caster can't take along all the horses too. Where is all that camping gear and treasure stored? Saddlebags? Don't want to leave the horses behind, do ya? Especially if one of them in an Animal Companion.
If they teleport to a dangerous location, then they're going to have to teleport out again. What if that location requires accessing a local town for healing and equipment and quest information? Are they going to WALK to that town? Across dangerous terrain full of orcs? Wouldn't they rather move FAST across such dangerous territory (using horses)...? Mounts make adventuring much easier, and teleportation tends to exclude mounts.
3. Build the adventure around the players' ability. I do believe James Jacobs or Sean Reynolds are on the record for having stated that they build higher level adventures with the assumption that player-characters have abilities like teleport, flight and scrying and passwall, etc. Plan ahead. Make that next encounter a necessity rather than an obstacle. An example would be an enemy commander and soldiers raiding and pillaging villages across the land. Who is he working for? Why is he provoking the rulers? The players can't teleport to every unknown location, they're going to have to be mobile in a different way, and deal with threats as they come. Teleport won't be much good in that situation. How about rescuing a dozen people from a hostile lair? Can't teleport out with them. You'll have to escort them to safety.
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Eh. You're a raving villain. Just give the demon a description of the PCs, likely locations, and tell it to go look for them there. He'll teleport over there, kill everyone and come back. Meanwhile you scry on the heroes to see if a demon appears to kill them.
You're a villain. Who cares if a lot of people that just look like the PCs die?
Actually, THIS WON'T WORK. The Deamon has just been summoned from another plane of existance. Here is the dialogue:
BBEG: OK minion teleport to the Sleeping Stag Inn and kill everyone there.
Deamon: OK, boss...Uh...Where's the Sleeping Stag Inn again?
And this assumes that the PC's aren't camping "somewhere in those hills over there." Just apply the rules and these things take care of themselves.
Eh. You're a raving villain. Just give the demon a description of the PCs, likely locations, and tell it to go look for them there. He'll teleport over there, kill everyone and come back. Meanwhile you scry on the heroes to see if a demon appears to kill them.
You're a villain. Who cares if a lot of people that just look like the PCs die?
Actually, THIS WON'T WORK. The Deamon has just been summoned from another plane of existance. Here is the dialogue:
BBEG: OK minion teleport to the Sleeping Stag Inn and kill everyone there.
Deamon: OK, boss...Uh...Where's the Sleeping Stag Inn again?
And this assumes that the PC's aren't camping "somewhere in those hills over there." Just apply the rules and these things take care of themselves.
Indeed. Also consider that summoned creatures cannot use teleport in the first place.
How does the nemesis escape to contiue to be a nemesis without escapability?
And this is why I'd be hesitant to nerf or ban teleportation spells, I have enough trouble getting what I hope to be a recurring villain out alive as it is. Not that there aren't other ways. If you left Dim Door and such alone (as I suggested before), that can give you a pretty good head start / hiding place to run away from or then go for the (nerfed to have a multi-round cast time) actual long range teleport.
Word of Recall should really serve the purpose of the escape spell, though. I never understood why it was higher level than the teleports and restricted to only the divine casters. It exists solely to flee back home, it's much less abusive than actual teleport. I would NOT apply any of my suggested nerfs to WoR, and would even consider lowering its spell level and making it available on other lists.
Eh. You're a raving villain. Just give the demon a description of the PCs, likely locations, and tell it to go look for them there. He'll teleport over there, kill everyone and come back. Meanwhile you scry on the heroes to see if a demon appears to kill them.
You're a villain. Who cares if a lot of people that just look like the PCs die?
I... I find this evilly brillant.
Indeed. Also consider that summoned creatures cannot use teleport in the first place.Actually, THIS WON'T WORK. The Deamon has just been summoned from another plane of existance. Here is the dialogue:
BBEG: OK minion teleport to the Sleeping Stag Inn and kill everyone there.
Deamon: OK, boss...Uh...Where's the Sleeping Stag Inn again?
And this assumes that the PC's aren't camping "somewhere in those hills over there." Just apply the rules and these things take care of themselves.
Fine.
BBEG: Imp. Look at this silent image constructed map. I want you to go to this place on the map, a hang out for adventurer types. It is known as the Sleeping Stag Inn and has an image of a dormant stag out front for illiterate imbeciles. While invisible, dose their ale with this magically fabricated poison. A simulacrum of myself will be watching from here.
Imp: What's in it for me?
BBEG: I thought killing people for fun would be enough incentive.
Imp: Alright... for now. *Flapflapflapflap*
BBEG: Osyluth.
Bone Devil: *Appearing from a darkened corner.* Yes, Sir?
BBEG: Go to the inn as well. If any one survives, or the imp screws up, fix it.
Bone Devil: Yes, Sir. *Flapflapflapflap*
Edit: Blast my slow typing. Ascalaphus, You beat me to the map bit.
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Skull and Shackles' rules make the whole world internally inconsistent.
You say this like it was consistent before.
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Mostly because I don't want them to feel that they can escape any encounter that starts going badly with so much ease. It takes a lot of the tension away in my opinion. I also don't like playing in other planes and generally like lower level, rpgs in general.
I play a teleportation specialist wizard, level 14. Dimensional steps has saved my squishy wizard life more than once, but I don't think my teleporting has ever broken the game.
As for thinking it will make encounters easier to escape, consider the following. If I'm teleporting the party out, everyone has to be in contact with me. This means our frontline has collapsed and we're at a tactical disadvantage. If a PC is down, someone needs to retrieve the body, requiring even more risk. Also, as the "way out" the wizard player gets put in a stressful situation if they have to decide if/when the party is pulling out. Nothing adds to the tension like your party looking to you to get them out alive.
And if the players have cohorts, followers, hired help, mounts, hanger's on, animal companions, etc...? Those are a lot of bodies that start filling up how many people I can get out. Generally, the party won't teleport out of the halfway finished dungeon since they're undefended donkey cart of loot is in the next room.
If you treat it like any sort of extraction in hostile territory, you'll see it doesn't necessarily make things easier as it opens up more tactical options, and choices. Also consider, the wizard is holding a 5th or 7th level spell slot back in case they need to teleport out. If you think the party safely arriving back at town to sell their loot is too game changing, how are you going to govern reversing gravity, creating demiplanes, scrying, controlling weather, or limited wish?
I keep thinking that if you really don't like scry'n'fry tactics, just set the baddies up in a place under Forbiddance Saves resources in spellcasting, AND you don't even need to have the caster still around to keep it up. Imagine a forgotten keep that was once defended against ambushes from teleporters, but is now disheveled and used by your main villain. On top of that, you give your players a good whack before an encounter even hits.
I keep thinking that if you really don't like scry'n'fry tactics, just set the baddies up in a place under Forbiddance Saves resources in spellcasting, AND you don't even need to have the caster still around to keep it up. Imagine a forgotten keep that was once defended against ambushes from teleporters, but is now disheveled and used by your main villain. On top of that, you give your players a good whack before an encounter even hits.
That's valid, but I also don't want to have to use magic to defeat magic under every circumstance.
I prefer a world in which mudane materials will block teleportation and scrying if they cannot find an entry way.
Forbiddance would still be useful for securing buildings that were built less securely or outside areas. Heck, you could use it create a zone around a secure building so people cannot teleport near it. With my house rule people can't teleport inside, but they can certainly teleport to the entrance. Unless other measures are taken.
Lead is cheap. Wouldn't be hard to "gild" an entire lair with a thin layer of lead.
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I keep thinking that if you really don't like scry'n'fry tactics, just set the baddies up in a place under Forbiddance Saves resources in spellcasting, AND you don't even need to have the caster still around to keep it up. Imagine a forgotten keep that was once defended against ambushes from teleporters, but is now disheveled and used by your main villain. On top of that, you give your players a good whack before an encounter even hits.That's valid, but I also don't want to have to use magic to defeat magic under every circumstance.
I prefer a world in which mudane materials will block teleportation and scrying if they cannot find an entry way.
In the series "The Chronicles of Amber" they had characters who could walk the planes of existence.
In one plane there was this weird blue stone that blocked the ability.
My gaming group from years ago used that trope. We decided that there was this "blue flecked stone" that blocked planar access (including teleport and ethereal travel). This material was coveted and expensive, but it meant that you could have old ruins made of the stuff. You could also have bad guys build stuff out of it and not even know it's properties. As a naturally occurring material, whole cave systems could be made of the stuff.
So here is a "nerf" that's a change in the campaign world instead of the rules.
Hope that helps.
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My issue with scry and die is that its..nothing new.
You can just as easilly be ambush by the arrival of a cadre of assassins, shadow dancers, shadow fiends, dark folk, or various other sneaky or open locky types.
I was originally going to comment that the teleportation lets a variety of classes get to you (palys, fighters and the like) but the dark folk can sneak most stuff up to you, and barbarians can be sneaky gits and have light armor to assist with it.
The issue with sneaking in on the guy, and scrying though is..
You need to be able to locate the dude.
We're assuming its a villain you haven't met. If thats the case, he gets a +5 to his DC base. If you've met the guy, what benefit do you get? None. You get to operate on your will save with no penalties. Hoo-ray.
Now scrying is a 4th level spell for sorc/wiz, meaning that its going to first show up around level 7, but teleport is a 5th level spell. Meaning that we're not going to see anything resembling the classic scry-or-die til 11th level.
Assuming the guy at level 11 is a reasonably intelligent wizard (lets assume the dude's popping at a 19. Hell, lets be generous and assume a 21) thats a DC of 19 (10+4(SL)+5(int modifier). For the moment lets not assume he's a diviner, or has spell focus divination, or what not. lets also assume he's not kicking it with a crystal ball or other stuff.
So, issue one. He needs to scry on an opponent who he's familiar with can't surpass a dc 18 will save at 11th level (or HIGHER if he's trying to look at the BBEG).
If your foe is a martial, congrats, you'll probably overwhelm his +3 or so will save (assuming that this leader of men didn't invest any points in wisdom or save boosting, which is a self-evident descriptor of an unwise martial). Course if he knows his enemies teleport, he might just invest in an amulet of proof against detection and location (which would leave him with only about 27,000gp in his pocket for an 11th level NPC, but, hey, dude's got a low wisdom). He's also liable to be the guy who cares the least about you popping in on him, if he's a barbarian he probably sleeps with his armor on and the battleaxe he's sharing a bed with is probably an actual battle axe. So your expenditure of a fourth and fifth level spell bought you a surprise round (which I'll non-sarcastically add against an 11th level barbarian is not a bad deal).
If he's a wizard? Chances are good you're looking at +9 or so, and then its a 50-50 prospect on the scrying succeeding.
Assuming the wizard has a third level slot open though, or scrolls, he could just cast nondetection and be off the grid entirely for about 8-11 hours (bards and rogues could probably pull this trick too). Enough time for him to sleep, get dressed, study, eat a hearty breakfast and get into his throne for a day of maniacal laughter. If its a wizard capable of casting Mind Blank? Yeah, your scrying is pointless.
Still, you succeed. Lets say you're popping in on Kardak the Unwise, and that he's a fighter and not a barbarian (and his armor and sword are waaaay over there).
You scryed. So this means you classify (explictly per teleport) as having one of the worst views of the location. You've got a not unappreciable chance of missing your target broken out into a 12% chance of you ending up in the wrong area (adjoining room, wrong floor, guard chambers, dungeon, inside the guadrobe, outside the castle..), a 6% chance you end up in a similar location (some other fighter's bedroom somewhere), and a 4% chance that a mishap whallops you and you just appeared inside a wall or waaaaay far up (mishaps put you back on the chart with a 1d20+80 and you can keep hitting mishaps.
This is further complicated if the guy lives in a volcano, next to a magical font or any of the myriad "areas of strong physical or magical energy (that) may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible."
That volcano lair? The necromantic castle built over a graveyard? The citadel in the midst of the blasted lands? Might want to walk.
Assuming you 1.) Bypass his will save, 2.) Teleport without mishap, and A.) He doesn't live in a volcano, and B.) He's not a class who doesn't care if he just woke up. You just got a surprise round.
All in all, not a bad deal. But its far from an instant I-win button.
Again, my assumptions are 1.) Teleport creates an appreciable noise on the other end, 2.) We're using teleport and not greater teleport (If its a seventh level spells theres even more complications in terms of who we'd be using it on).
Is it established in Golarion that there are continental plates that move? I don't recall reading that.
Don't have to read it; you can tell from the mountain ranges.
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You could borrow a page from (among others) the Dresden Files, and use the concept of Threshold. You can't easily cast magic into a home unless you've been invited by someone who actually lives there.
This tends to apply to places that count as a home, particularly to people; demons, fey etc. don't seem to generate this protective field.
The more attached the residents are to the home, the stronger the Threshold is. A bachelor pad isn't as strong as that of a family that's lived there since time immemorial.
Mechanically, you could make it a Spell Resistance check to invade with magic, with target number set by the type of home. Even if you manage to force your way inside, you have your power reduced. We can simulate this with "negative levels", except that these levels are not negative energy so for example Death Ward gives no protection against them. They persist as long as you invade.
Home SR Negatives
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Slum (bachelor) 10, 1
Slum (family) 15, 2
Appartment (bachelor) 15, 2
Family home 25, 3
Ancestral family home 35, 5
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Shrine 25, 3
Temple/Monastery 30, 4
Cathedral 35, 5
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Rented -5 -1
However, if you (vampire, demon, or plain wizard) bluff, charm or plain dominate a resident into issuing an invitation, these penalties vanish. However, that's hard to do from a distance.
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Is it established in Golarion that there are continental plates that move? I don't recall reading that.Don't have to read it; you can tell from the mountain ranges.
Er, Kirth, there are many geologically dead worlds in our solar system that have mountains. There are mountain building processes that don't involve plate techtonics. Heck in a "gods did it" type world they could have just created the world complete with mountains, unchanging.
Given that it takes a higher level spell to teleport between worlds, it seems like a safe assumption that the basic teleportation effects use the world as a stable reference frame. That could even be a justification for why greater teleport won't suffice for interplanetary travel. Any motion relative to the surface of the world itself could still be a problem.
Even if there are drifting continental plates, I don't think being off target by a tiny fraction of a millimeter is as much of a problem as a ship that moves up and down a few feet per second.
So when you are presuming worlds in which there were world shattering cataclysmic events that drastically changed the landscape the existence of mountain ranges means that plate tectonics are in effect? How does that follow?
There's a fly spell -- does that mean it's a reasonable assumption that gravity doesn't exist? For many mountain ranges to be formed by cataclysms in shapes that one would anticipate from tectonic activity means all the gods are Loki, not Torag. (I haven't actually constructed a tectonic map the way I do with my homebrew worlds, so there probably are some mountains that would need to be "it's magic!" ones -- but for the most part, the shoe fits.)
Look, we all accept gravity because we're familiar with it, and with its effects. You seem reject tectonics, presumably because you're not very familiar with it, or with its effects* (as a geologist, I am). That's an argument from personal ignorance, which, if that's what makes your game more enjoyable, I'm all in favor of -- but let's not pretend it's logically rigorous.
*
Er, Kirth, there are many geologically dead worlds in our solar system that have mountains.
Look at the size and layout of the mountains on planets that don't have tectonics -- e.g., Mars. I'm a geologist, this is an area in which I actually have some idea what I'm talking about, unlike most other topics.
Is it established in Golarion that there are continental plates that move? I don't recall reading that.Don't have to read it; you can tell from the mountain ranges.
In a world with active gods you don't need geologic processes to create any geographic feature. Is it ever stated how old Golarion is? Is it at least 50 million years old (long enough for a tectonically active planet to generate such features)?
I'd always had the impression that it was literally an Intelligent Design universe.
In a world with active gods you don't need geologic processes to create any geographic feature.
As I replied earlier, if the features are made to LOOK like they were geologically-formed, that means the only active gods are Coyote and Loki (out to fool you just for the hell of it), not Torag and Iomidae. Presumably this would have a more drastic effect on the campaign world than merely nerfing ship-to-ship teleportation.
Look, the "no teleportation if there's movement" thing means that you have to set a minimum relative movement speed and account for all kinds of exceptions as they arise. If this leads you to ignore geology (OK, fine) and gravity (no one has addressed the point re: semi-diurnal earth tides yet), then maybe it's more of a stretch than many people will be willing to buy off on, especially when you reject Occam's Razor as well.
In a world with active gods you don't need geologic processes to create any geographic feature.As I replied earlier, if the features are made to LOOK like they were geologically-formed, that means the only active gods are Coyote and Loki (out to fool you just for the hell of it), not Torag and Iomidae. Presumably this would have a more drastic effect on the campaign world than merely nerfing ship-to-ship teleportation.
Unless the world is tens of millions of years old (has this been established?) then the gods only needed to be active when the world was first created. Geologic features such as mountain ranges would not have changed much in a few thousand years.
The point here is that mountains, ocean basins, hot spots, etc. do not imply tectonic plate movement in Galorian unless it is stated in the world rules somewhere. So no tectonic movement to prevent teleportation.
The rotation of the world is another issue altogether.
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Er, Kirth, there are many geologically dead worlds in our solar system that have mountains.Look at the size and layout of the mountains on planets that don't have tectonics -- e.g., Mars. I'm a geologist, this is an area in which I actually have some idea what I'm talking about, unlike most other topics.
I'm not making the claim that plate techtonics doesn't happen, simply that there can be alternative explanations for mountains even in a world without magic and gods. I was responding to your statement that the mere existence of mountains implies plate techtonics. I'll bow to your expertise if you are saying the specific properties of Golarion's mountains imply such; that was not clear to me from your previous post.
I actually think a stronger argument would be the existence of earthquakes.
I was responding to your statement that the mere existence of mountains implies plate techtonics.
Not their mere existence -- this is a strawman people keep trying to put in my mouth -- but their disposition and layout. Presumably the people who drew the maps looked at real mountain ranges and copied them, with some artistic license. By doing so, they either (a) are fobbing them off as being "realistic" (i.e., geologically formed), or (b) are setting up a trickster deity scenario as outlined, if they then turn around and claim no tectonics exist.
I was responding to your statement that the mere existence of mountains implies plate techtonics.Not their mere existence -- this is a strawman people keep trying to put in my mouth -- but their disposition and layout.
You said regarding setting specifics for plate movement: "Don't have to read it; you can tell from the mountain ranges."
Not sure how else you meant this to be read.
The world has mountains. In a magical world with a short history, active gods, and intelligent design there is no need for plate tectonics. Unless specifically mentioned in the Galorian source material then they aren't an issue for teleportation.
You honestly think that the people drawing Golarion's maps were placing tectonic plates and simulating mountain formation based on plate tectonics?
Presumably the people who drew the maps looked at real mountain ranges and copied them, with some artistic license. By doing so, they either (a) are fobbing them off as being "realistic" (i.e., geologically formed), or (b) are setting up a trickster deity scenario as outlined, if they then turn around and claim no tectonics exist.
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Unless the world is tens of millions of years old (has this been established?) then the gods only needed to be active when the world was first created. Geologic features such as mountain ranges would not have changed much in a few thousand years.In a world with active gods you don't need geologic processes to create any geographic feature.As I replied earlier, if the features are made to LOOK like they were geologically-formed, that means the only active gods are Coyote and Loki (out to fool you just for the hell of it), not Torag and Iomidae. Presumably this would have a more drastic effect on the campaign world than merely nerfing ship-to-ship teleportation.
Congratulations, you have introduced last-Tuesday-ism into Golarion. The world was actually created on 7 Gozran, 4714, and the only reason that people think they remember events earlier than that is because Asmodeus has created false memories of that date.
The mountains are not "a few thousand years" old; in fact, they're less than a week old.
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You said regarding setting specifics for plate movement: "Don't have to read it; you can tell from the mountain ranges."
Not sure how else you meant this to be read.
That's because, with all respect, you're to a fair extent ignorant of how orogeny works and why mountains look they way they do. Either that, or you're wilfully misrepresenting my post.
You honestly think that the people drawing Golarion's maps were placing tectonic plates and simulating mountain formation based on plate tectonics?Presumably the people who drew the maps looked at real mountain ranges and copied them, with some artistic license. By doing so, they either (a) are fobbing them off as being "realistic" (i.e., geologically formed), or (b) are setting up a trickster deity scenario as outlined, if they then turn around and claim no tectonics exist.
Or the world was created with intent to give it all the ecological niches desired by its creators. Epic worlds tend to have mountains. Nothing "trickster" needed in the process.