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This is why I keep a Mini of Shame around.
It is a pig that is also a wizard.
Does it have a pointy 'Dunce's cap', as its wizard hat?
"Yeah, the D does stand for 'Dumbledore', hmmm, if you like..."
...It will once I've painted it. Dang, that's good. I'm thinking neon safety yellow for the robes. Pale pink and bright neon yellow are pleasing to the eye together, right?
I need to find them.
I have a bright yellow set of dice with white numbering. "I do not like the dice of shame."
I got mine for attending CincyCon '14 (and a pig spartan for '14 but its slightly to cool to be a good mini of shame) but I saw Ral Partha selling extras at Origins last year. Might have some luck through that route.
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Ooh, another thing that kills me is people whose dice are completely unreadable. Some of Paizo's fancier dice are like that (you know, the ones with sixty runes on each face, and the number is in Wingdings font? yeah, those). I hate it when someone rolls a die, and I ask "What'd you get?" and their response is to point at a die I literally cannot read.
I accidentally bought one of these online just two weeks ago. Didn't realize until it got to me that it has a symbol for both the 1 and the 20. Then I had to figure out which was which. Ugh.
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Ooh, another thing that kills me is people whose dice are completely unreadable. Some of Paizo's fancier dice are like that (you know, the ones with sixty runes on each face, and the number is in Wingdings font? yeah, those). I hate it when someone rolls a die, and I ask "What'd you get?" and their response is to point at a die I literally cannot read.
I know a guy who was playing a Samurai and thought it would be a cool idea to special order dice that used Japanese characters instead of numbers.
No...just no.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The first d20 I used to use in PFS was a spindown life counter from Magic: the Gathering. I'd just switched addictions from that game to PFS, so it's what I had without spending extra money (and spending less money was the reason I switched). It also had some sentimental value for other reasons.
Unfortunately, I sometimes got funny looks when I rolled a natural 20 that looked like the expansion symbol for the Shadowmoor set, plus there are folks who think that one arrangement of numbers on the faces of a tumbling dodecahedron produces less random results than other arrangements, so I eventually "retired" that die for a more basic one.
But now I couldn't go back, as I've grown very accustomed to my unfailingly-legible, white-on-black, plain-Arial numbers. :D
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It may be something that most gamers and gaming tables accept without a second thought, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when people start sharing all their stats in order to figure out who's the best at something so that person can attempt it:
GM: As the remains of the once proud inn continue to burn behind you, a very stern looking guardsman approaches. With a hand on the hilt of his sword and other guardsmen fanning out behind him he says "Someone better have a good explanation for this ...
PLAYER 1: I bet we can diplo out of this ... who's got the best diplomacy? I've got +3
PLAYER 2: I've got +2
PLAYER 3: +6
PLAYER 4: +4
PLAYER 1: Alright, PLAYER 3 rolls diplomacy and the rest of us try to assist.
I don't have anything against players sharing their character talents with each other, but, in my opinion, it should be something like, "As a Taldoran noble, I'm rather skilled in the art of diplomacy".
Nothing annoys me more than reducing a story with potentially interesting characters to colorless number-crunching.
I have the same pet peeve, to the point that I don't allow numbertalk at my table... In terms of hit points, skill bonuses, or any other number. Players should be able to describe their characters in the same terms as they would in real life.
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My current group has a really bad habit when it comes to initiative. No matter how much I tell them otherwise, they still get this idea in their head that as long as I haven't actually said "roll init" they can squeeze in a bunch of last minute buffs/movement/attacks.
Other pet peeves:
- Rolling to overcome spell resistance before declaring what you're trying to cast.
- People who just plain absolutely cannot ever get their heads around how AOOs work.
- People who full on stop paying attention when it isn't their turn and hold the game up catching up once it is.
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plus there are folks who think that one arrangement of numbers on the faces of a tumbling dodecahedron produces less random results than other arrangements, so I eventually "retired" that die for a more basic one.
It's not less random if rolled properly, but if you're trying to cheat, it's easier to manipulate the roll on a spindown, because all the big numbers are clustered together.
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Player: "All three hit, 84 damage."
GM: "Wait, but what did you do?"
Player: "Full-attacked."
GM: "How do you know you hit with all three attacks?"
Player: "Well they were all in excess of X."
GM: "Yeah, but now he's out of Point-Blank range, has cover, is prone which gives +4 versus ranged attacks, , so what did you actually roll on those attacks?"
Player: "Oh, okay. Let's see, it was X, Y and Z."
GM: "Only one of those hit. You need to announce your rolls, because things can change."
Player: "Okay, sure, no problem."
Rest of the night...
Player: "All three hit, XX damage..."
I tend to do the oppsite and assume that I missed I roll anything less than a 15. except on my gunslinger who's gotten to the point of usually hitting on a rolled 2.
As for a bit of an annoyance for me as a player being hit with a spell, failing the save and being stuck in place and then only finding out AFTER the game that it was a spell that my character was immune to. (hold person vs aasimar)
On a similar level, being hit with damage and not being told what type of damage it is. Nearly had a character killed over this, turns out a good chunk of it was cold damage. Something my character had DR against.
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I use diplomacy on him.
This doesn't make me intuitively hate a person. I've run some tables for guys/girls who really want to be the center of attention/metabard, but they don't have the real life social skills or natural gift for gab that a CHA 22 bard would have. I like when I see more roleplaying, don't get me wrong. But, if a player can't physically/mentally do what they want a character to do, I let it slide.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ooh, another thing that kills me is people whose dice are completely unreadable. Some of Paizo's fancier dice are like that (you know, the ones with sixty runes on each face, and the number is in Wingdings font? yeah, those). I hate it when someone rolls a die, and I ask "What'd you get?" and their response is to point at a die I literally cannot read.
As a rule, I only use my Second Darkness dice when I GM, because the silver on purple is so hard to read.
My Rise of the Runelords Dice however are nice and clear.
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I have the same pet peeve, to the point that I don't allow numbertalk at my table... In terms of hit points, skill bonuses, or any other number. Players should be able to describe their characters in the same terms as they would in real life.
So, do you letr them set up consistent equivalencies, or do you just enforce mumblety g@++?
And what do you do when the real life descriptions would alreay be a number? "I am 5' 6" tall."
So, is a +9 Diplomacy good, mediocre, or excellent? Or would you just let me describe it as, "I can automatically assist anyone performing Diplomacy."?
Sorry, when a skill number can ligitimately range from -3 to +30 or more, not even counting ACP or encumbvrance, it is hard to force someone to use a non-numeric descriptor withotu a defining table.
Heck, even as a GM, I have to check the spell detect magic to give the proper aura strength reading...
Do Native Outsiders radiate their alignment at 1st level if they are not a Cleric/Paladin?
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The big thing thats gets me is the cadre of people who play directly off their i device/laptop/ other. Its happened more than a few times where combat goes really quick and then stops as the player stops playing Candy Crush/other, quickly (or rather slowly) loads up Herolab and then goes.
Im of the group who does require people rolling diplomacy to give me something. Often its because what they are trying to do would more likely be Bluff (and occasionally Intimidate!) than Diplomacy. Or someone attempts to help the primary by looking mean!.. which means they add via diplomacy? (uhh no) Im a shy person myself and took up gming originally to break outta my shell (and to meet people). Also because nobody
I dont require epic oratory from the player.. but something more than 'I want that damn sword otherwise Ill kill you!.. can I roll diplomacy?'.
It's in the Detect Evil spell, the table at the end indicates aura strength based on various categories. An "aligned outsider" with 1 HD has a faint aura.Do Native Outsiders radiate their alignment at 1st level if they are not a Cleric/Paladin?Yes, actually.wow... learn something everyday! Thanks.
Somebody got a reference on this so I can pass it on to other people? This would be worth noting, with the increase of Aasamir and Tieflings and other plane-touched PCs (that they will "ping" on detect alignment spells at levels below 5).
I believe that only applies to outsiders with alignment subtypes.
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I have the same pet peeve, to the point that I don't allow numbertalk at my table... In terms of hit points, skill bonuses, or any other number. Players should be able to describe their characters in the same terms as they would in real life.So, do you letr them set up consistent equivalencies, or do you just enforce mumblety g@&$?
And what do you do when the real life descriptions would alreay be a number? "I am 5' 6" tall."
So, is a +9 Diplomacy good, mediocre, or excellent? Or would you just let me describe it as, "I can automatically assist anyone performing Diplomacy."?
Sorry, when a skill number can ligitimately range from -3 to +30 or more, not even counting ACP or encumbvrance, it is hard to force someone to use a non-numeric descriptor withotu a defining table.
Heck, even as a GM, I have to check the spell detect magic to give the proper aura strength reading...
Do Native Outsiders radiate their alignment at 1st level if they are not a Cleric/Paladin?
Kinevon, I completely disagree with you, and this same rule is something that I brief in my "tables rules" talk before my games begin. In character, ability scores, hit points, and skill ranks are meaningless. If one character asks another how he looks, I don't want the player to say that "I'm down 6 hit points" because that number has a totally different meaning for a first level wizard vs a 12th level barbarian. I tell my players to describe their health from the perspective of the character: "I'm barely scratched" or "I'm about to fall over from blood loss."
Same with skill levels. There is no set scale! If your character thinks he's the best diplomat in the history of diplomacy, say it that way! I don't care if it's a +21 or +2. After a few rolls the other characters will step in and say, "No, I'll take the lead this time, you assist me." Use your words, not your numbers!
I also make people declare that they're assisting a skill check in advance, and saying how they're going to do it. Once the primary has rolled, no jumping in and say, "Wait, I'll assist you." Too late.
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- People who just plain absolutely cannot ever get their heads around how AOOs work.
THIS.
"He entered a square adjacent to me while charging, I must get an AoO, right?" LEAVING threatened squares, people. LEAVING them.
Also, people not understanding cover (though this can be forgiven because the rules are so often misunderstood and are kinda worded confusingly) and getting annoyed that shooting through their friend's square into melee suffers an effective -8 to hit... and then throwing the bomb anyway.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If you fail when you thought you would have succeeded, don't go looking up monster stats on the PRD during the next two people's turns and then interrupting combat to ask what the DC (or whatever) was. You don't know what templates, class levels, or other special circumstances might be modifying the base creature.
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The big thing thats gets me is the cadre of people who play directly off their i device/laptop/ other. Its happened more than a few times where combat goes really quick and then stops as the player stops playing Candy Crush/other, quickly (or rather slowly) loads up Herolab and then goes.
You are getting "the cadre of people who play directly off their i device/laptop/ other" mixed up with "the cadre of people who are inattentive/disrespectful to the game". The two are not contingent upon one another.
Playing off of a device does not mean you are playing Candy Crush and not paying attention the rest of the time when it is not your turn.
I get pretty tired of hearing this on the forums. Fortunately, I have never had to deal with this misguided Luddite notion in my area, as players who use pencil/paper character sheets and players who use devices all seem to have the same amount of common sense, respect for the game and congenial dispositions.
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Ooh, another thing that kills me is people whose dice are completely unreadable. Some of Paizo's fancier dice are like that (you know, the ones with sixty runes on each face, and the number is in Wingdings font? yeah, those). I hate it when someone rolls a die, and I ask "What'd you get?" and their response is to point at a die I literally cannot read.
LOL. A few players I know bring squiggle dice to the table and I offer to let them use a set of mine that are legible. I know dice are a very personal thing with gamers but...
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I have the same pet peeve, to the point that I don't allow numbertalk at my table... In terms of hit points, skill bonuses, or any other number. Players should be able to describe their characters in the same terms as they would in real life.So, do you letr them set up consistent equivalencies, or do you just enforce mumblety g@&$?
And what do you do when the real life descriptions would alreay be a number? "I am 5' 6" tall."
So, is a +9 Diplomacy good, mediocre, or excellent? Or would you just let me describe it as, "I can automatically assist anyone performing Diplomacy."?
Sorry, when a skill number can ligitimately range from -3 to +30 or more, not even counting ACP or encumbvrance, it is hard to force someone to use a non-numeric descriptor withotu a defining table.
Heck, even as a GM, I have to check the spell detect magic to give the proper aura strength reading...
Do Native Outsiders radiate their alignment at 1st level if they are not a Cleric/Paladin?
Kinevon, I completely disagree with you, and this same rule is something that I brief in my "tables rules" talk before my games begin. In character, ability scores, hit points, and skill ranks are meaningless. If one character asks another how he looks, I don't want the player to say that "I'm down 6 hit points" because that number has a totally different meaning for a first level wizard vs a 12th level barbarian. I tell my players to describe their health from the perspective of the character: "I'm barely scratched" or "I'm about to fall over from blood loss."
Same with skill levels. There is no set scale! If your character thinks he's the best diplomat in the history of diplomacy, say it that way! I don't care if it's a +21 or +2. After a few rolls the other characters will step in and say, "No, I'll take the lead this time, you assist me." Use your words, not your numbers!
While I sympathize with you I strongly believe that you are wrong.
With hit points, a healing sort needs to know how many points you are down in order to decide how to heal you. In world, whatever the heck hit points represent to you, surely the experienced combat medic magically empowered by the gods would have a pretty good idea if you need a cure moderate or cure critical.
And hit points mean so many different things to different people that there is no way that somebodys description is going to be meaningful to somebody else.
Similarly with skills. A group of adventurers traveling together are soon going to know who is better at what skills. Especially in a PF world where the differences between characters are vastly greater than in reality.
The characters see a lot more than do the players and interact a lot more. Having the players know their character numbers is necessary in order to partly bridge that gap.
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I wouldn't assume you walk around with a deadly weapon in your hand all the time."
Players who assume they walk around with a deadly weapon in their hand all the time. "I fire my crossbow!" "The crossbow that's in your backpack, unloaded?"
This depends on the situation. If im walking into a dungeon or hostile area I would assume I have my weapon drawn, and that I am wearing my armor.
"I don't have a figure or dice, can you get me some?" - 9th level playerThis is why I keep a Mini of Shame around.
It is a pig that is also a wizard.
This is just awesome.
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While I sympathize with you I strongly believe that you are wrong.
Then we must agree to disagree. Players should not treat their PCs as buckets of numbers.
Many times the PCs are being grabbed out of the hallway in the Grand Lodge and sent on a mission together without any foreknowledge of each others' abilities. How do they find out about each other? They talk, presumably, but no PC should ever say "I have a +9 to Diplomacy." However, they could say "I took Diplomacy 101, 201, and 202 while in Pathfinder training, plus people seem to naturally like me," as compared to the guy who never went to Diplomacy class (i.e. no ranks) because he was too busy taking and retaking "Sword swinging for dummies."
It would be like me walking up to you and asking you what your Diplomacy score is - a meaningless question. How good are you when talking with people? A much better question, but one that can only be answered with adjectives, not numbers.
All of my players seem to appreciate the reduction in metagaming and increase in pseudo-realism at the table. At GenCon many of my players also said they were going to steal these policies for use at their own tables.
I use diplomacy on him.
So are you against players who want to resolve encounters without violence, or do you just hate people who don't (for any given reason) RP said use of Diplomacy?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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While I sympathize with you I strongly believe that you are wrong.Then we must agree to disagree. Players should not treat their PCs as buckets of numbers.
Many times the PCs are being grabbed out of the hallway in the Grand Lodge and sent on a mission together without any foreknowledge of each others' abilities. How do they find out about each other? They talk, presumably, but no PC should ever say "I have a +9 to Diplomacy." However, they could say "I took Diplomacy 101, 201, and 202 while in Pathfinder training, plus people seem to naturally like me," as compared to the guy who never went to Diplomacy class (i.e. no ranks) because he was too busy taking and retaking "Sword swinging for dummies."
It would be like me walking up to you and asking you what your Diplomacy score is - a meaningless question. How good are you when talking with people? A much better question, but one that can only be answered with adjectives, not numbers.
All of my players seem to appreciate the reduction in metagaming and increase in pseudo-realism at the table. At GenCon many of my players also said they were going to steal these policies for use at their own tables.
I like what you're going for, but in the case of HP, things get a little dicey.
For instance, a party in a 3-7 scenario could very well contain both a 4th-level elven wizard with 10 CON (a whopping 22 HP, if he put his FCBs there) and a 7th-level barbarian with 18 CON (somewhere around 82 HP).
If both of those PCs say "I'm feeling half-dead", then the wizard's somewhere around 11/22 HP while the barbarian's looking at 41/82 HP.
Meanwhile, 7th-level Kyra has access to CLW (1d8+5), CMW (2d8+7), CSW (3d8+7) and CCW (4d8+7). She knows what those spells are, knows how powerful they are in relation to each other, etc.
CLW could very possibly fully heal the wizard, but it would take a very good roll on CCW to heal the barbarian.
If we imagine any semblance of realism in regard to a PC's ability to observe the world around them, then Kyra is fully aware that a discrepancy that big could exist.
But both the wizard and the barbarian said "I'm feeling half-dead".
So how would you prefer the players to indicate their actual needs while speaking in character?
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I use diplomacy on him.So are you against players who want to resolve encounters without violence, or do you just hate people who don't (for any given reason) RP said use of Diplomacy?
It's entirely possible that the quoted statement reflects neither a distaste for nonviolence nor a hatred for any given people group. Flamebait much?
I use diplomacy on him.So are you against players who want to resolve encounters without violence, or do you just hate people who don't (for any given reason) RP said use of Diplomacy?
I am not seeing another way to see this post but as a flamebait.
I use Science on him.
-j
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While I sympathize with you I strongly believe that you are wrong.Then we must agree to disagree. Players should not treat their PCs as buckets of numbers.
Many times the PCs are being grabbed out of the hallway in the Grand Lodge and sent on a mission together without any foreknowledge of each others' abilities. How do they find out about each other? They talk, presumably, but no PC should ever say "I have a +9 to Diplomacy." However, they could say "I took Diplomacy 101, 201, and 202 while in Pathfinder training, plus people seem to naturally like me," as compared to the guy who never went to Diplomacy class (i.e. no ranks) because he was too busy taking and retaking "Sword swinging for dummies."
It would be like me walking up to you and asking you what your Diplomacy score is - a meaningless question. How good are you when talking with people? A much better question, but one that can only be answered with adjectives, not numbers.
All of my players seem to appreciate the reduction in metagaming and increase in pseudo-realism at the table. At GenCon many of my players also said they were going to steal these policies for use at their own tables.
I like what you're going for, but in the case of HP, things get a little dicey.
For instance, a party in a 3-7 scenario could very well contain both a 4th-level elven wizard with 10 CON (a whopping 22 HP, if he put his FCBs there) and a 7th-level barbarian with 18 CON (somewhere around 82 HP).
If both of those PCs say "I'm feeling half-dead", then the wizard's somewhere around 11/22 HP while the barbarian's looking at 41/82 HP.
Meanwhile, 7th-level Kyra has access to CLW (1d8+5), CMW (2d8+7), CSW (3d8+7) and CCW (4d8+7). She knows what those spells are, knows how powerful they are in relation to each other, etc.
CLW could very possibly fully heal the wizard, but it would take a very good roll on CCW to heal the barbarian.
If we imagine any semblance of realism in regard to a...
How about "I'm lightly wounded", or "moderately wounded", or "seriously wounded", or "critically wounded" or "do you see this organ in my hand? That's my kidney! What do you think?"
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But both the wizard and the barbarian said "I'm feeling half-dead".
So how would you prefer the players to indicate their actual needs while speaking in character?
Excellent question, and I agree that some aspects of healing have to involve numbers - Kyra can't say "I heal your booboos but not that big sword gash," her player has to ultimately say "I heal your character for 8 hp." Another example, the oracle of life with life link up has to ask, "Who is down at least 5 hp? OK, you three heal five, now how do you look? Oh, that barely closed one of your many wounds? Well then..."
For your example:
Wizard: "In my experience, a couple of pokes from that happy stick should be enough to fix me up, this isn't my first time being bit by some creature."
Barbarian: "If you're going to use your stick we're going to be here a long while, I've been doing this adventuring thing for a few years now. Best hit me with once or twice with Sarenrae's really good magics and then we'll see how I feel."
Is there an element of metagaming going on in the back of each player's head as they calculate their hp and the average healing they can expect from the various Cure spells? Yes, can't get rid of that completely, so experienced players/characters will be able to read between the lines without having to completely break into metagaming at the table.
I give a lot more leniency to new players, of course, as they try to figure out how the various numbers on their sheet should translate into the character in the game world.
And then you cure them with Science!
I use Science on him.
-j
We have a high-level alchemist/barbarian in our area who likes to perform "science" quite... vigorously... on the monsters we encounter.
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Many times the PCs are being grabbed out of the hallway in the Grand Lodge and sent on a mission together without any foreknowledge of each others' abilities. How do they find out about each other? They talk, presumably, but no PC should ever say "I have a +9 to Diplomacy." However, they could say "I took Diplomacy 101, 201, and 202 while in Pathfinder training, plus people seem to naturally like me," as compared to the guy who never went to Diplomacy class (i.e. no ranks) because he was too busy taking and retaking "Sword swinging for dummies."
And many times you've been traveling with them for weeks.
In the real world experienced people gauge another's rough ability very quickly. When a stranger sits down at your table how long does it take for you to have a pretty good idea how experienced they are?
I'll definitely admit that it is hard to differentiate between small differences. But its easy to tell a +5 from a +10
It would be like me walking up to you and asking you what your Diplomacy score is - a meaningless question. How good are you when talking with people? A much better question, but one that can only be answered with adjectives, not numbers.
I agree that I prefer in character discussions where possible. But "really good" is pretty meaningless amongst strangers.
And, again, in real life one gets a quick feel for where people are relative to each other.
All of my players seem to appreciate the reduction in metagaming and increase in pseudo-realism at the table. At GenCon many of my players also said they were going to steal these policies for use at their own tables.
I disagree that your approach is more realistic.
I strongly suspect you're far less rigid than you're coming across as. Because if you're as absolute as you say I'd expect you to have received considerable negative feedback. I'd certainly have told you why I'd never play at your table.
Edit: I just saw your post above. As I suspected, you ARE a lot less rigid than I was interpreting you as.
I use diplomacy on him.So are you against players who want to resolve encounters without violence, or do you just hate people who don't (for any given reason) RP said use of Diplomacy?
There are some cases where diplomacy just isn't warranted. That doesn't stop some players from trying to use diplomacy in every encounter, after weapons have been drawn, people are already fighting, and quite possibly there are already some unconscious comabatants. The diplomacy ship has sailed as soon as weapons are drawn. I've seen a GM handle pretty well how to tell players the diplomacy is useless in combat without having to resort to my old ruling of "just cause". He simply said "Ok. Here is round 1 of your diplomacy. After 10 rounds of you talking to them while they try to kill you, you get to make a diplomacy check." The diplomacy skill says that trying to change someone's attitude toward you takes 1 minute. Therefore you can give a RAW approach as to why diplomacy just sometimes doesn't work.
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I think the "I've taken 28 points of damage" and "Kyra, please, I think I need a new liver and another several pints of blood" are both perfectly acceptable - it all depends on the players. I have a few local GMs who insist that no one discuss HP numbers - for that reason, all our local clerics take deathwatch. Others will flat out tell you "the boss has taken 57 damage and only has eighteen HP left."
To each his/her own, on that topic. Both are fine.
