Crafting of Alchemical items AND crafting in the downtime of travel from Briefing to start of adventure


GM Discussion

Grand Lodge 1/5

I have the following situation

Player A wrote:

Depending on travel time, (Absolom, to Cheliax is about 1000 miles by sea should take just over 20 days) I would like to do a little work on the way there.

Crafting 1d20+6+5+3+2+6
Taking ten nets a 32.
holy fountain firework 110GP (material cost 36.66gp) (material cost 36.66gp)x3 (DC 25) =12 days
Sun cinder 25GP (8.33gp each) x3 (DC 20) 3 days
Ghast Retch Flask 50GP (16.66gp) x3 (DC 20) 6 days

Total time and cost of items 21days, 185gp

Me wrote:
Good thing we have a brief break because I need to think on this. Typically crafting of items is not allowed in PFS with the exception being the gunslinger... let me throw this out to the PFS GMs. Typically - unless the scenario says other wise, the down time moving to the adventure location can't be used for anything more than prepping spells

What is the correct way of handling this? I cant find anything in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play Version 5.0 on the crafting of alchemical items.

5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Alchemists are allowed to craft alchemical items. It's in the FAQ, but I don't have the time to look it up at the moment.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I'm more curious about the sun cinder thinges.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Quote:

How can alchemists craft in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?

Alchemists can use the Craft (alchemy) skill to produce items with their Alchemy ability. Follow the Craft rules on pages 91–93 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook as well as in the alchemist’s Alchemy ability description. Any item created must be properly noted on that scenario’s Chronicle sheet. Under "Items Bought", note the amount of gold spent and the item created. Alchemists are assumed, for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, to carry the necessary items and tools with them to use available resources to create alchemical items. If they have a base of operations from which to do so, they may use an alchemy lab to gain the +2 bonus on their Craft (alchemy) check. Alchemists may never sell any of their created items nor may they trade them to another PC. However, they may allow other PCs to borrow or use items they’ve created (so long as the alchemist class ability being used allows them to do so).

Got it.

5/5

Thomas Graham wrote:
I'm more curious about the sun cinder thinges.

I was wondering myself. Funny, I own the book, Demon Hunter's Handbook.

Link

Scarab Sages 5/5

I'm not sure, but something looks off in the calculations. The costs should be in SP not in GP... I'll look later when I get home, but I seem to recall that production times are surprising long for some of the simplist things...

Crafting rules:

Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft's daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)

The basic function of the Craft skill, however, is to allow you to make an item of the appropriate type. The DC depends on the complexity of the item to be created. The DC, your check result, and the price of the item determine how long it takes to make a particular item. The item's finished price also determines the cost of raw materials.

In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. You must still make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.

When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.

All crafts require artisan's tools to give the best chance of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made with a –2 penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan's tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check.

To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.

1. Find the item's price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).

2. Find the item's DC from Table: Craft Skills.

3. Pay 1/3 of the item's price for the raw material cost.

4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you've completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn't equal the price, then it represents the progress you've made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.

If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.

Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) should be divided by the number of days in a week.

1. Find the item's price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
Ghast Retch Flask 500SP x3 = 1500sp

2. Find the item's DC from Table: Craft Skills.
(DC 20)

3. Pay 1/3 of the item's price for the raw material cost.
Cost 1500sp/3=50gp

4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work.
check was "Taking ten nets a 32."

If the check succeeds,
and it does easily

multiply your check result by the DC.
32 x 20 = 640SP

If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item.
ah... it doesn't. 640SP is less than the 1500SP that he is trying to craft for the G.R.Flasks...

(If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you've completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.)
doesn't apply

If the result × the DC doesn't equal the price, then it represents the progress you've made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. so he would need to work on this next week also. In fact, you can figure he can produce 640SP of items in a week, or 64GP worth of items every 7 days...

Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.

he lists the time as "Ghast Retch Flask 50GP (16.66gp) x3 (DC 20) 6 days"... but I figure it at 1500SP (total cost) @ 620SP a day = 2.42(aprox.) weeks just for the Ghast Retch Flashs.

part of his problem is he devides the cost of the item by a third before calculating the time... which he shouldn't do. But even then I think it's off somewhere else. The G.R.Flasks should take at least 17.5 days, though it should likely just take 21 days...

His daily crafting output for items with a DC of 20 would be:
620SP/7 = 88.57SP a day, or almost 9 GP a day. (Which would mean his profit as a Crafter would be almost 6 GP a day! a great wage by the way!)

Hope this helps!

(edit to post this as one of my Alchemist PCs)

3/5

My guess is an alchemist with Swift Alchemy is the reason for the timing of the crafting.

Scarab Sages 5/5

OH! and the DC25 items actually have a different production rate...

"multiply your check result by the DC" so that would be...

32 X 25 = 800SP per week, or 11.428GP per day... so the holy fountain firework @ 110GP would be close... requireing slightly less than 10 days to produce one... wait, he seems to be makeing 3. so a month to do those.

I could be missing something, so everyone feel free to check my math and rules knowledge... ;)

editing to switch this to one of my Alchemist PCs

Scarab Sages 5/5

Nathan Hartshorn wrote:
My guess is an alchemist with Swift Alchemy is the reason for the timing of the crafting.

AH! good idea! I missed that!

Swift Alchemy (Ex): At 3rd level, an alchemist can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes an alchemist half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items, and he can apply poison to a weapon as a move action.

so divide all my times above in half... but even then his timing appears to be off.

most of my alchemists are Archtypes that swap out swift alchemy (I think).

3/5 5/5

He might also have the Master Alchemist feat that lets you calculate progress in GP rather than SP.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
He might also have the Master Alchemist feat that lets you calculate progress in GP rather than SP.

WOW! yeah, that might do it...

Master Alchemist feat:

Your mastery of alchemy is nearly supernatural.

Prerequisite: Craft (alchemy) 5 ranks.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks, and you may create mundane alchemical items much more quickly than normal. When making poisons, you can create a number of doses equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) at one time. These additional doses do not increase the time required, but they do increase the raw material cost.

In addition, whenever you make alchemical items or poisons using Craft (alchemy), use the item's gp value as its sp value when determining your progress (do not multiply the item's gp cost by 10 to determine its sp cost).

his calculations were "Crafting 1d20+6+5+3+2+6"
so that might be 6 ranks, 5 INT, 3 Class Skill, 2 Feat, and 6 for the Alchemist "crafting things" bonus for a 6th level alchemist (and you should tell him to buy an Alchemists Lab to get the +2 tool bonus).

I think you have it Paladin - that would give him a production total of:
640GP a week, or almost 91.5 a day... wait... then the G.R.Flasks should have taken him slightly less than 2 days to make. so I don't know what's up then... sorry!

Dark Archive 4/5 ***

Actually, if he's got the Master Alchemist feat, he's not calculating something right... And checking the character out, he doesn't. So now his math looks right. (I made a nifty spread sheet that calculates down to how many minutes an item takes to make depending on your bonuses/feats/abilities.

Grand Lodge 1/5

I'll have the character chime in here. Thanks fellas.

The timing doesn't worry me over much as it could have also been done pre-mission in the grey time between games.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Actually, if he's got the Master Alchemist feat, he's not calculating something right... And checking the character out, he doesn't. So now his math looks right. (I made a nifty spread sheet that calculates down to how many minutes an item takes to make depending on your bonuses/feats/abilities.

without the feat, his production rate for items with a DC of 20 would be 32 x 20 = 640sp a week, times 2 for Swift Alchemy gives 1280sp a week, and he needs 1500sp for the G.R.Flashs which he is listing as done in 6 days. something is not working out right on the math, or I am missing something...

Dark Archive 4/5 ***

I'm assuming he's doing this:

CRB wrote:

You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated

DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item
more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC
by your Craft check result to determine progress). You
must decide whether to increase the DC before you make
each weekly or daily check.

He has the skill to make it at a DC 30, which would be 30x32=960 per week, swift alchemy would make it 1920 per week or 137.14 sp worth/day Which means it takes him 1.82 days to make one flask of Ghast Retch.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:

I'm assuming he's doing this:

CRB wrote:

You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated

DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item
more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC
by your Craft check result to determine progress). You
must decide whether to increase the DC before you make
each weekly or daily check.
He has the skill to make it at a DC 30, which would be 30x32=960 per week, swift alchemy would make it 1920 per week or 137.14 sp worth/day Which means it takes him 1.82 days to make one flask of Ghast Retch.

AH! thanks! ...

so...
32 X 25 = 800SP x 2 (swift) = 1600SP per week or 228.57SP per day so:
the holy fountain firework @ 110GP (DC 25) would take ... (wait he's doing 3 at once so...) 3300SP / 228.57 = 14.43 days but he lists it as =12 days...

32 X (20+10) = 960 x 2 (Swift Alchemy) = 1920SP per week or 274.28SP per day .... wait, you got 137.14SP per day? Ah, you didn't do the X2 for swift alchemy there or something... anyway 274.28SP day easily does the Sun cinder 25GP (8.33gp each) x3 (DC 20) in 3 days (one day each...)

In fact, we can not see that he can do a little over 25GP a day when the DC is 30, so that get's the 3 Ghast Retch Flasks (@50GP each) in his listed 6 days

So! Looks like he might be off only by 2.4 days on the holy fountain firework - but is spot on for the other stuff... Looks good to me!

And thanks to Eric Clingenpeel, and Paladin of Baha-who? for the pointers, I learned a lot and will use this in home games in the future!

Grand Lodge 2/5

Alright, ya for the fountains I think I ended up rounding at some point. That would account for being off a slight margin. Thanks for helping check my math.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Slyph Silvar wrote:
Alright, ya for the fountains I think I ended up rounding at some point. That would account for being off a slight margin. Thanks for helping check my math.

NP! thanks for the tips! I can use them with my own Alchemists - though this is more likely to come up in home games for me.

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