Ever Game With the USA as Enemy?


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Hello everybody!

With the new Captain America movie coming out and part of it involving presenting the US and its warmongering in a negative light I wanted to hear what any of you had to say about the US in your games and have they been villains/the grand enemy.

I've played in a Vietnam game on the side of the US, I have fond memories of spec ops: the line, and I know plenty of games cover the US or something like it as a force in their settings. My question is has the US or its forces ever been the bad guys in any of your games, what were they like, how did you feel about that, would you like more of it in games?

Now if we could avoid invectives and keep this about settings, games and experiences that would be excellent. Possible war/conflict settings are on topic.


Mmmm the only time i have done a game where "real" countries were involved was when i did a fallout tabletop game. I guess thats kinda cheating since its already established lore but the old american govt were the enemies (Enclave). Went pretty damn well until one day the cat spilled coffee onto my sheets i created to run it and never got the urge to recreate the rule or expand them so to say lol.


Oh no, the cat destroyed the game. Clearly a cat of the enclave.

So what were the enclave like as bad guys in this tabletop game?

The Exchange

does a game where the bad guy has a southern accent count?


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Sorta. We once played a Champions game where we (as Canadian heroes) had to stop a bunch of American villains that crossed over the border, and then deal with the American heroes who didn't understand that their authority ended at the 49th. We ended up having to trounce the American heroes too because they wouldn't take "no!" for an answer. In the end- since we have an extradition treaty- the villains were sent back to the U.S. for trial. The U.S. heroes were charged with illegally entering the country, sentenced and deported. And since they now had a criminal record here, they were banned from entering Canada ever again.


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DM Under The Bridge wrote:
its warmongering in a negative light

Sorry I don't have a lot to offer, but the above kinda made me snicker. You can put a positive spin on a word like 'warmongering'? :)

Aaanyway. Yes, sure. I've been in lots of games like this. Although, the vast majority of "real world" games I've been playing in are World of Darkness games, where the overall theme is that governments suck, and also tend to be very US biased, so clearly the US government sucks. WoD was very 'punk' in the 90s. :)

And then, still white wolf (why does white wolf hate America??), there's Aberrant where the US is pretty much a second tier villain who doesn't trust the rest of the world and have their own 'Directive' to *ahem* "take care" of domestic supers. (On the flipside, I've also played in an Aberrant game where the players were Directive agents.)

Liberty's Edge

Well, Cap has always had that thread of patriotism is good but Patriotism is bad ever since Lee and Kirby resurrected him in the 1960s.

As for the question, Cyberpunk 2020 flirts with it a bit before going full monty on it in Cybergeneration.

Most OWoD Mage and Werewolf games wind up skewing this way. Vampire and Channeling too if memory serves. Largely because most governments are firmly under the influence of the Union of Technocratic Conventions via the New World Order.


Do board games like Axis and Allies count?
I haven't actually played any RPGs where an entire real world country counts as an enemy yet. Elements of a government being enemies, sure, but rarely the entire country. I'm planning on starting a Laundry Files game in the not too distant future and the Black Chamber is about as close to an enemy as you can get this side of Cthulhu. A close second would be a hiatused game where the US are trying to get info about a certain Japanese asset and are willing to play a little dirty to get it.

Liberty's Edge

Oh, I forgot Delta Green and Conspiracy X.


Not a bad guy, but could be depending on what version you play...

Fortress America.


Oh> What is fortress America and how was it played in your games?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Yes I have used the US as the Evil overlord in a Mutant & Masterminds game. I used a X men themed game where supers were to be put in prison as being a threat to national security.

Sovereign Court

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All the time, never in the games were run by myself, bu by other people. Not difficult when the U.S. is considered a villain in by a nice chunk of my countrymen.
We actually played a game where the U.S. invaded Europe to "save" it from Russia. We played a squad of saboteurs that traveled throughout Europe, librrating and fighting a guerilla war. It was a fun game.
Would like to play a FPS with americans as villains. Kinda got tired of killing nazis, russians, terrotist. It gets boring.


Like Bjørn Røyrvik above, I've played Axis and Allies games in which I've given Deuschland lebensraum and made the world safe for the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, all while crushing those interfering Americans.

I've run and played in a game in which (mostly) American corporations have reduced the governments of the world, including that of the U.S., to figurehead status ... and said corporations don't have much use for the "public good."

Don't know if either of those count, but ... yeah, I guess.


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Hama wrote:
Would like to play a FPS with Americans as villains. Kinda got tired of killing Nazis, Russians, terrorists. It gets boring.

'America as a villain' is somewhat different from "Americans as villains." I like to think there are still a few goodhearted Americans here—that we can't all be lumped into evil status.

Of course, there are plenty enough bad Americans that you could kill boatloads in simulation and still have them as a group growing stronger and more malevolent despite your best efforts.

I love this country!

Sovereign Court

What I meant was that I would like to play a FPS whose protagonist is someone from a country invaded by the U.S. Just no more 'brown' shooters. Aside from being completely sick and tired of desert terrain, I cannot comprehend the mind of a religious fundamentalist.


On more than one occasion, I've run my all-time favorite superhero adventure, "Project Prometheus" for MEGS.

Project Prometheus:
The U.S. army asks the PCs to rescue from Crete an important abducted scientist, planning to send in its own forces if the PCs fail. It turns out that the "abduction" was staged. The scientist WANTED to help develop a machine to protect Crete, as he felt that it was the only project with true potential for peace.

Depending on what choices the PCs make, they might have to race against the clock to help get the machine working before the U.S. forces invade.

(By the way, could we please try to avoid getting this thread locked, at least until other people have had a chance to contribute? I find this thread interesting.)

Sovereign Court

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I didn't see anything lock worthy...


Aaron Bitman wrote:

On more than one occasion, I've run my all-time favorite superhero adventure, "Project Prometheus" for MEGS.

** spoiler omitted **(By the way, could we please try to avoid getting this thread locked, at least until other people have had a chance to contribute? I find this thread interesting.)

Nice one Aaron, yeah I am liking how this humble thread is turning out so far. That game on Crete sounds good.

The American gov against the superheroes reminds me of some Europeans comments on America that I have read. That in the land of individualism, conformity and being like everyone else is a very powerful pressure. If you were some type of super human you could simply not be able to be like the everyman/everywoman, and that could easily be fashioned as a clear and present danger to the US of A and a threat to the public.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM Under The Bridge wrote:


Hello everybody!

With the new Captain America movie coming out and part of it involving presenting the US and its warmongering in a negative light I wanted to hear what any of you had to say about the US in your games and have they been villains/the grand enemy.

I've played in a Vietnam game on the side of the US, I have fond memories of spec ops: the line, and I know plenty of games cover the US or something like it as a force in their settings. My question is has the US or its forces ever been the bad guys in any of your games, what were they like, how did you feel about that, would you like more of it in games?

Now if we could avoid invectives and keep this about settings, games and experiences that would be excellent. Possible war/conflict settings are on topic.

Mayfair did a rather unusual take on superhero RPGs in a game called Underground set in a near future dystopian setting.. The only one which actually advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government. In this near future wars are fought over territories for corporate game an the cheif weapons are super soldiers enhanced with cyber tech and biological reinforcement. The problem iniitially found with these soldiers was that their augments would drive them all psycopathically insane, much like the "cyberpsychosis" of a certain landmark game. The solution that was found was to put the subjects in an extended VR setting in which each would be a four color costumed hero defending the usual Mom, Apple Pie, and Red White Blue American goals. The VR worked so well because it hynotically induced the subjects to believe their fantasy was real. And from thier viewpoint, a lifetime upholding such goals was lived in a couple of months of objective time. They would then be decanted, used in the wars as needed, and those that survived those wars would be dumped back on home soil, socially discarded as veterans of prior wars have traditionally been.

Upon returning to an America remarkably like the fields of battle they'd been built for, some of these veterans would revert to the superhero persona they'd taken on in their VR lives. Applying the four color standards of good and evil, they'd come to see the present government and the social system around them as an evil to fight. (which arguably it IS.)

The game is decades out of print, and I don't believe Mayfair exists any more. Here is a wikki link for those who want further info. I've found listings for a lot of the Underground books on Amazon so you can still get copies.

As a result of the publication of Underground, it's designer Ray Winnger was put on the FBI's lists of subversive individuals.


LazarX wrote:
...I don't believe Mayfair exists any more...

Mayfair is alive and well. I think it's been pretty well-known since it got the rights to publish the "Settlers of Catan" line of games, which it still has.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aaron Bitman wrote:
LazarX wrote:
...I don't believe Mayfair exists any more...
Mayfair is alive and well. I think it's been pretty well-known since it got the rights to publish the "Settlers of Catan" line of games, which it still has.

From wikipedia:

In 1997, Mayfair shut down for financial reasons, and was subsequently bailed out by Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) who purchased most of the company's assets and restarted operations as Ironwind, Inc. This new company operates publicly under the Mayfair Games trademark, and was owned 30% by ICE, and 70% by the principals who had arranged the bailout.[5] During the bailout by ICE, a warehouse was purchased by a dice company, and the MEGS role-playing game ended up in the hands of Janet Bromley.

In 2003, Mayfair started publishing games by daVinci Games, beginning with the popular card game Bang!.

In 2005 Mayfair also began distributing all of the games published by Phalanx Games.

Mayfair has worldwide English-language publication and distribution rights for the very popular The Settlers of Catan family of games.

In 2011 Mayfair released the card games Struggle for Catan and Rivals for Catan to highlight the brand's 15th anniversary.

In 2012, Mayfair released Star Trek Catan, the first ever Catan game with a licensed theme--in this case, Star Trek.

Liberty's Edge

Gah I feel ashamed.

The World on Fire setting for Spycraft 2.0 has the US (along with every other government) as one of the bad guys or cats paws of the villains who are really just the playthings of... well, you get the idea. There are examples of Project Pitfall, the international anti-terrorist organization in the setting, leveling entire neighborhoods to take out a few 'heroes' and then saying the heroes blew themselves up killing thousands. Simple solutions for a complex world.

And speaking of superheroes, Aberrant.


DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Oh> What is fortress America and how was it played in your games?

Fortress America has two versions. The older version from the 80s has a basic premise that communism took over the world except for the US...and now it's the US vs. the rest of the world.

The new FFG version changed that (obviously as the cold war is over) to the idea that the US has developed some more aggressive weapons and the rest of the world is allying to try to stop them (original blurb had the US as being the aggressor I think).

Basically one player plays as the US, the other as the rest of the world.

Digital Products Assistant

Removed a post and reply. Let's leave the religious flame baiting out of the thread.

The Exchange

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Slaunyeh wrote:
...the above kinda made me snicker. You can put a positive spin on a word like 'warmongering'? :)

Well, you just don't use that word, is all! You call it things like "patriotism," "defending your rights," "preemptive war," "economic imperatives," and "defeating Communism." Haven't heard that last one in a while. Probably because my TV was Made in China.

On-topic: The last "real Earth" campaign I ran was set in 1928 America, and while the NPCs were all very pro-America (well, the wealthy straight Caucasian male NPCs, anyway), the flaws of the setting were fairly clear to the players.

(I did get to have my PCs defend a zeppelin from biplane attack, which I think every GM should get to do once in his or her career.)

Scarab Sages

Does Paranoia count?


The only games I played in the real world modern setting were Champions games, where occasionally the super heroes had to deal with certain factions of the US government that were against them. But never America as a whole.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Snorter wrote:
Does Paranoia count?

Given that the United States does not exist any longer in the world of Alpha Complex, No.


LazarX wrote:
DM Under The Bridge wrote:


Hello everybody!

With the new Captain America movie coming out and part of it involving presenting the US and its warmongering in a negative light I wanted to hear what any of you had to say about the US in your games and have they been villains/the grand enemy.

I've played in a Vietnam game on the side of the US, I have fond memories of spec ops: the line, and I know plenty of games cover the US or something like it as a force in their settings. My question is has the US or its forces ever been the bad guys in any of your games, what were they like, how did you feel about that, would you like more of it in games?

Now if we could avoid invectives and keep this about settings, games and experiences that would be excellent. Possible war/conflict settings are on topic.

Mayfair did a rather unusual take on superhero RPGs in a game called Underground set in a near future dystopian setting.. The only one which actually advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government. In this near future wars are fought over territories for corporate game an the cheif weapons are super soldiers enhanced with cyber tech and biological reinforcement. The problem iniitially found with these soldiers was that their augments would drive them all psycopathically insane, much like the "cyberpsychosis" of a certain landmark game. The solution that was found was to put the subjects in an extended VR setting in which each would be a four color costumed hero defending the usual Mom, Apple Pie, and Red White Blue American goals. The VR worked so well because it hynotically induced the subjects to believe their fantasy was real. And from thier viewpoint, a lifetime upholding such goals was lived in a couple of months of objective time. They would then be decanted, used in the wars as needed, and those that survived those wars would be dumped back on home soil, socially discarded as veterans of prior wars have traditionally been.

Upon returning to an America remarkably like the...

That is a very interesting and strong comment on the treatment of veterans and the propaganda pushed upon the youth and through the military. Wow, what an outcome. A subversive. Ha ha.

The Exchange

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LazarX wrote:
Snorter wrote:
Does Paranoia count?
Given that the United States does not exist any longer in the world of Alpha Complex, No.

The Computer: All information pertaining to the world before The Computer is classified above your security level. 'The United States' is a rumor. Listening to rumors is treason. Thank you for your honesty in admitting treason, citizen! A helpful squad of Vulture Warriors will be with you shortly. Thank you for your patience.

Silver Crusade

Played in a Shadowrun game where we effectively declared war on the US Military after they tried to nuke us. We ended up quitting shortly thereafter so not sure how it would've played out. I should mention though that we were the villains in that game. I believe our building count at that point was approaching 20.


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Computer games, RPGs, Boardgames I have Countries of preference. Often that means I am aligned with the US but I avoid playing the US if possible.

Modern 21st Century and beyond.
1. Australia
2. Any other Commonwealth nation that is not the UK - So NZ, Canada, SA, India and so on.
3. The UK.
4. EU countries
5. Japan
6. The US if I have no other choice.
7. China
8. Russia

World War II

The US moves to 5. Germany Italy and Japan move to the bottom of my list.

World War I

Germany, Austria move to the bottom of my list Japan moves up Turkey sits above Germany.

Napoleonic
The US moves to the bottom

Revolutionary
US sits at the bottom

Renaissance, Medieval, ancient - what ever looks cool... Except in ancient Carthage will always be bad guys.

Nothing more satisfying then crushing the US when it pops up in Empire Total War and even better is crushing the US with the Maharata after I have captured London.


DM Under The Bridge wrote:

Oh no, the cat destroyed the game. Clearly a cat of the enclave.

So what were the enclave like as bad guys in this tabletop game?

They werent "stupid evil", they just "pureblooded" americans trying to reclaim their old glory but had to clear away the filth and mutations before they could set up their great country again. I will admit it was hard pulling off without cheesing it up to "stupid" bad guy instead of delilusional. Thankfully my playera didnt know anything about fallout but the 50's warmonger was reconizable.


Quote:
Ever Game With the USA as Enemy?

Pretty much SOP for us whenever playing in a setting where the U.S. exists.

Liberty's Edge

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The 8th Dwarf wrote:
Except in ancient Carthage will always be bad guys.

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The closest I've come to doing this was a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game where we played ourselves as late-blooming garou. The game began with a government agency of some sort raiding my home during a party in search of a magic totem and either killing or capturing all of our friends... except the five of us who were garou, of course--we promptly wolfed out and decimated them.

The first campaign arc culminated in us finding the research center near Washington DC where the agency had taken all of the captives from the party raid and performed horrible medical and metaphysical experiments on them. When I and the rest of the pack found the bodies, we flew into a rage. The level beneath the research center was guarded by armed men in clearly marked FBI duds, each wielding SMGs and assault rifles loaded with silver rounds.

They hurt us, to be sure--but we hurt them more, and we did it faster. I fight almost exclusively in Hispo, in stark contrast to my teammates who mostly prefer Crinos. But before the agent I had targeted was finished off, I shifted to Homid and beat him to a bloody pulp with my bare hands, screaming, "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET YOU F**KING FED PIECE OF S**T" the whole time.

Searching the agents' body yielded a massive array of ID cards and security clearances--FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS, DOJ, DOD, you name it. We suspect there's a connection between the research facility and someone in Congress based on other evidence we uncovered, as well. But we also know that there are helpful garou in positions of federal power as well--people who might aid us during the next story arc.

So, yeah, we're quite comfortable with role-playing armed insurrections and acts of treason again the U.S. government at my table. =D

Scarab Sages

Snorter wrote:
Does Paranoia count?
LazarX wrote:
Given that the United States does not exist any longer in the world of Alpha Complex, No.

Just so you know, it wasn't (quite) a facetious question.

I was testing the water, in general regarding dystopian future settings, of which there are many.

Gamma World; yep, that's a world gone FUBAR. Like Paranoia, it's got little connection to the world we live in, except to provide comedic opportunities for scavengers worshipping Old Reckoning technology.
(see also Judge Dredd, the Cursed Earth)

Does this mean that a game of Shadowrun, would also not count, since any recognisable federal USA got swept away when the magic came back?

Ditto with cyberpunk settings, where corporations have established themselves as de facto nations?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I played in a GURPS: Espionage game where the PCs were FBI agents. We uncovered a dark conspiracy within the US government that had the tacit approval of the President. The conspiracy involved vampires, the Bavarian Illuminati, aliens from outer space, and Hastur the Unspeakable. We ultimately had to choose between loyalty to the USA and loyalty to the human race. (We chose the latter.)

It never went more than three sessions, but I played in a Champions game set in 1968: "Heroes of the Counterculture". I played Comrade Spartacus-- an American Communist superhero that was otherwise a blatant rip-off of Captain America. In our first big fight, we ended up squaring off against a team of government-backed superheroes who were breaking up a street protest.

I wrote (but never ran) a GURPS game where the PCs would have been members of a radical environmentalist organization, based loosely on the Earth Liberation Front. This game would certainly have cast the police as the PCs' opponents, at least at the start. (The game would have taken a turn toward the supernatural.)

Liberty's Edge

Snorter wrote:
Snorter wrote:
Does Paranoia count?
LazarX wrote:
Given that the United States does not exist any longer in the world of Alpha Complex, No.

Just so you know, it wasn't (quite) a facetious question.

I was testing the water, in general regarding dystopian future settings, of which there are many.

Gamma World; yep, that's a world gone FUBAR. Like Paranoia, it's got little connection to the world we live in, except to provide comedic opportunities for scavengers worshipping Old Reckoning technology.
(see also Judge Dredd, the Cursed Earth)

Does this mean that a game of Shadowrun, would also not count, since any recognisable federal USA got swept away when the magic came back?

Ditto with cyberpunk settings, where corporations have established themselves as de facto nations?

There's the USAS, and if memory serves the fluff still has them as the last people you want to screw with. They just don't come up so much since Seattle's sort of an autonomous city-state.

As for other settings, it depends. In Cyberpunk 2013/2020 the US government is still something that corporations have to consider and work around. Same with the EU, although it's more far powerful. Come the Cybergeneration-era the corps got annoyed with that and the Corporate States of America have come into existence.

Further down the line (circa 2180), while the the USSA is not really the USA, the authors draw heavily on it. They are antagonists, along with the Pleiades Confederation, of the presumed campaign model but I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling them villains.

Some cyberpunk settings have governments be non-issues, some have them be sleeping giant dogs with more money and military hardware then the mega-corps.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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I could do it in an RTS game or the right kind of RPG, but it would feel weird in an FPS gunning down guys wearing the same thing I wear to work every day.

Liberty's Edge

Charlie Bell wrote:
I could do it in an RTS game or the right kind of RPG, but it would feel weird in an FPS gunning down guys wearing the same thing I wear to work every day.

What about something like Infamous Second Son where you're fighting a paramilitary police force? Or Saints Row 2 where your fight the US Military twice?


Krensky wrote:
The 8th Dwarf wrote:
Except in ancient Carthage will always be bad guys.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Cato wasn't wrong.


Power Word Unzip wrote:

The closest I've come to doing this was a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game where we played ourselves as late-blooming garou. The game began with a government agency of some sort raiding my home during a party in search of a magic totem and either killing or capturing all of our friends... except the five of us who were garou, of course--we promptly wolfed out and decimated them.

The first campaign arc culminated in us finding the research center near Washington DC where the agency had taken all of the captives from the party raid and performed horrible medical and metaphysical experiments on them. When I and the rest of the pack found the bodies, we flew into a rage. The level beneath the research center was guarded by armed men in clearly marked FBI duds, each wielding SMGs and assault rifles loaded with silver rounds.

They hurt us, to be sure--but we hurt them more, and we did it faster. I fight almost exclusively in Hispo, in stark contrast to my teammates who mostly prefer Crinos. But before the agent I had targeted was finished off, I shifted to Homid and beat him to a bloody pulp with my bare hands, screaming, "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET YOU F**KING FED PIECE OF S**T" the whole time.

Searching the agents' body yielded a massive array of ID cards and security clearances--FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS, DOJ, DOD, you name it. We suspect there's a connection between the research facility and someone in Congress based on other evidence we uncovered, as well. But we also know that there are helpful garou in positions of federal power as well--people who might aid us during the next story arc.

So, yeah, we're quite comfortable with role-playing armed insurrections and acts of treason again the U.S. government at my table. =D

Awww yeah, that sounds good. Werewolves vs. the man.


LazarX wrote:
In 1997, Mayfair shut down for financial reasons, and was subsequently bailed out by Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) who purchased most of the company's assets and restarted operations as Ironwind, Inc.

I stand corrected.


LazarX wrote:
Snorter wrote:
Does Paranoia count?
Given that the United States does not exist any longer in the world of Alpha Complex, No.

The in-game present day Outside is usually not described that well in the source materials (on purpose) so there's nothing preventing you from having restored the world outside of the great dome over San Francisco or whatever you've decided is your Alpha Complex. Maybe Mail Max (The Postman) was an accurate predictor of future history!

Now, if you did that you might be missing part of the point of Paranoia, but it's your game so have fun with it!

To answer Snorter's question: No, because the characters have no real concept of the United States. You might want to worry about those people sitting at the same table as you, though. ;)

The Computer is your friend!


DM Under The Bridge wrote:


Hello everybody!

With the new Captain America movie coming out and part of it involving presenting the US and its warmongering in a negative light I wanted to hear what any of you had to say about the US in your games and have they been villains/the grand enemy.

Hmm, no. I once played a WW2 German soldier game, we fought the Poles, British and Russians, never fought the Yanks though.

Even though I'm British, I think the tendency is to take Hollywood tropes and play them, so we eg play as the US Army in Vietnam, not the Vietcong or NVA. We don't regard our US Spec Forces trooper PCs as the moral 'good guys' anymore than those WW2 German soldiers, they're just 'our guys'.

I did recently have the idea that maybe Golarion's Cheliax is sort of a US analogue ca 2005-7, with Death of Aroden = 9/11 and the House of Thrune as the Bush clan (since Paizo seems pretty Lefty) >:) - I might do something with that, especially when I run 'Skull & Shackles' where Cheliax is an enemy. Would take a bit of tweaking though, since *everybody* on Golarion is pretty American. :)

I don't have any visceral need to do an anti-American game, but I can imagine doing a fantasy analogue where a tiny band of brave traditionalists fight to defend their ancient way of life against the vast Globalist empire... in many countries "300" was seen as an *anti* American movie. >:D


I like where you are going. Avatar and dances with wolves meets golarion?

I've had the druids vs. human globalism set-up before. The druids have to have a lot on their side, an alliances of monsters and rangers for instance.

The elder scrolls is really playing with the idea of the elves being the evil globalist empire of jerks.

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