What Keyword or Critical Effects would you like to see?


Pathfinder Online

Goblin Squad Member

I have always been a fan of:

1. Damage over Time / Bleeding Effects
2. Crippling Effects (Disarm)
3. Hamstringing (Slows Movement)
4. Intimidation / Dread (Initiative Debuff or Energy Drain)
5. Increased chance of Critical Hits or Effects

Goblin Squad Member

I'm not a fan of disarm or energy drain (via melee attack); I like all the others though.

Goblin Squad Member

Recall that criticals inflict Injury points (IP?), which will accumulate until they exceed your current hit points and then cause you a lot of penalties until they are removed. So I don't think that "critical effects" will be a thing per se, or at least a variety of critical effects won't be a thing (instead it'll be a set list which every critical type pushes you towards).

I like the armor piercing keyword that was discussed before (bonus unmitigated damage equal to 10% their armor); I think keywords which sacrifice maximum damage output in favor of more consistent damage output are a good choice for implementation. Same for armor; maybe your heavy armor can receive a keyword which reduces a specific energy type's damage, in an effort to spread out your defenses instead of super-specializing in one defense.

My hope for keywords is that, though there might be good "go-to" choices for keywords on specific items (for example, bonus health keyword on armor pieces I would expect to be a staple), most times keywords will be specific to the individual's needs. I don't like having a system like this with a variety of choices when nobody uses 90% of those choices.

Goblin Squad Member

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Pax Shane Gifford wrote:

Recall that criticals inflict Injury points (IP?), which will accumulate until they exceed your current hit points and then cause you a lot of penalties until they are removed. So I don't think that "critical effects" will be a thing per se, or at least a variety of critical effects won't be a thing (instead it'll be a set list which every critical type pushes you towards).

I like the armor piercing keyword that was discussed before (bonus unmitigated damage equal to 10% their armor); I think keywords which sacrifice maximum damage output in favor of more consistent damage output are a good choice for implementation. Same for armor; maybe your heavy armor can receive a keyword which reduces a specific energy type's damage, in an effort to spread out your defenses instead of super-specializing in one defense.

My hope for keywords is that, though there might be good "go-to" choices for keywords on specific items (for example, bonus health keyword on armor pieces I would expect to be a staple), most times keywords will be specific to the individual's needs. I don't like having a system like this with a variety of choices when nobody uses 90% of those choices.

Woo Shane, can I get an autograph?! Pretty cool seeing your name on the video blog!

Goblin Squad Member

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For armor: something like 'fitted' or 'comfortable' which eases armor use - allowing the character to recuperate faster when resting.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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I'm curious how the keyword system has been inferred to work. Especially initially, I feel like it's a lot simpler and more straightforward than it seems like it's being interpreted.

Keywords do a few things right now:

  • They increase damage by a fixed amount when matched between weapon and attack. The general attacks general gain keywords at a standard progression that matches the standard progression for the weapon they're meant to work with. Eventually, we'll have attacks that are looking for rare keywords instead of the standard progression, but those will generally be special faction and role attacks.
  • They increase resistance by a fixed amount when matched between armor and role armor feat. The armors designed for a particular role generally gain a standard progression of keywords that matches the order those keywords are gained by the armor feat. There is fairly substantial variety here, such that you can wear armor that's not specifically designed for your slotted armor feat and match a majority of keywords, so it still might be situationally useful.

In the near future (hopefully during Alpha) they'll gain a few more options:

  • They'll increase what we're currently calling Utility Value and Utility Defense. Essentially, the matched keywords on an attack are compared to the matched keywords on the target's armor to scale the non-damage effects on an attack. This is largely to make effects scale with level, and to give non-damaging attacks and buffs a reason to look for more keywords.
  • They'll increase HP and defenses via the armor feat per matched keyword (i.e., part of a role's HP and defenses are based on their slotted armor feat rather than being permanent upgrades, and scale with keywords matched on the armor).
  • You'll have magic item feats that activate the enchanted keywords on weapons and armor, usually to provide additional energy damage or energy resistance on your attacks (with non-damage keywords like Keen probably rolling out afterwards).
  • Creatures can have a percentile resistance to any damage that doesn't come with a particular keyword (e.g., Bludgeoning for skeletons, Silver for werewolves., etc.).

Long term, I'd like to add things that trigger specifically off of keywords (e.g., an attack that deals additional Burning if the weapon used is Flaming), but it may be a while before those are in.

So I'd like to hear what else people have envisioned keywords doing beyond that list, so I can evaluate it for the features list.

As to the other topic of the thread, we can absolutely give attacks an "on Critical Hit" effect (and we have!), and have several Reactive feats that add an additional effect to every attack that crits. So there's lots of room there for cool things.

Goblin Squad Member

As I said above, what I was personally envisioning for keywords is a lot of choice with no clear-cut obvious keywords. For probably the most relatable example, enchanting in WoW, though in WoW the choices are more clear-cut than I'd prefer. I pictured it as, when a crafter creates an item, he can choose X keywords to put into the item, based on the quality and tier of the item. The keywords he can choose are based on his own crafting skills and limited by what type of equipment he's making. Each keyword would be situationally useful, or more generally useful but weaker. For example, you can have a keyword that buffs your staple "bread-and-butter" attack combo a little, or one that buffs a situational more, or one that increases a core stat a little, or one that increases an unusual stat more (increased spell damage on longsword, for example).

Perhaps I'm conflating keywords into a completely different concept, but it seems like you couldn't have keywords and "WoW enchanting equivalent" crafting bonuses at the same time without equipment becoming too crowded with effects, so I'd assumed keywords would serve such a role.

Goblin Squad Member

Just as creatures have a percentile resistance to any damage without a particular keyword, different armor types might have more or less resistance to keywords like 'Bludgeoning'.

You might have keywords like 'Ornate' based on the inclusion of valuable materials and high craftsmanship, though I think many players might value other keywords more. Aristocrat characters, however, might have skills that require flashy gear.

I'm thinking of 'Ancient' for those time-encrusted artifacts that we often see in fantasy, but those might be very rare in the River Kingdom, where everything is character-crafted. Maybe some drops from escalations are required to craft such things.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Stephen Cheney wrote:

I'm curious how the keyword system has been inferred to work. Especially initially, I feel like it's a lot simpler and more straightforward than it seems like it's being interpreted.

My inference was that most abilities would look for one or more keywords on the weapon or implement that activated them, and if that keyword was present the ability would have an additional effect like more damage (bonus to damage factor, bonus to base damage, reduction to armor resistance) or apply some kind of buff or debuff or status to the attacker or defended (bleeding, stumbling, feinting, off-balance).

Goblin Squad Member

Adding to Decius' inference; I'd assume some abilities might not work at all without some set of keywords present.

Goblin Squad Member

My inference was the same as Decious' but I would also add, I also inferred that keywords would be fairly consumable (like having charges) and would have to be replaced with some frequency.

This would not only be good for crafters / merchants but it would also lead to some experimentation on the part of the combatants.

Goblin Squad Member

For armor:
Turn, Deflect, absorb, disguise next action (ala cape or other visual), entrap/temporary rebuff
For weapon:
parry, pierce, cut, bludgeon, repost, entangle, unbalance(loose dex bonus), drive (with forced retreat), other attacks with minor STR or CON to INT <distract> rebuff

Goblin Squad Member

Some kind of Decapitation Keyword, perhaps as part of a Coup de Grace action. As an Urgathoan Cleric, this is necessary for the ritual of Reaping. Though I suspect that it would be quite some time before a Vorpal Scythe is seen/created.

Goblin Squad Member

I have a thought that some keywords have a paired opposite. For example, the weapon keyword "Bludgeoning" could be negated/made non-operative by a "Reinforced" armor keyword. On the other hand a "Fortification" armor keyword could negate more than one weapon keyword (e.g., Piercing, Bludgeoning, Slashing) unless that weapon was at least one tier higher than the armor's tier.

I also think that there could be keyword synergy feats; that using objects with two particular keywords enhances them both marginally when the character has a particular synergy feat. An example might be having a special Two-Weapon Fighting feat that allows special attacks when using two specific weapon types. Maybe something like a "Pile-driver" feat that for a single attack with a piercing weapon while also using a bludgeoning weapon gives the piercing weapon a momentarily increased tier affect (e.g., driving the piercing weapon with the bludgeoning weapon as a single attack).

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:
So I'd like to hear what else people have envisioned keywords doing beyond that list, so I can evaluate it for the features list

1: mimic certain feats/maneuvers. Keywords used to match equipment to active abilities, ie enables special attacks.

-'heavy' weapon enabling power attack
-'light' weapon enabling combat finesse
-'hafted' or 'hooked' weapon enabling movement-impairing attack (ie.trip)
-metamagic keywords or magic school/bloodline keywords as appropriate for wands, staffse etc.

2: mimc certain magical or mundane enchantments ('pluses'). Equipment keywords may match active or passive abilities, or give flat bonuses.
-'barbed' or 'serrated' enabling (or giving bonus) to bleeding attacks
-'flaming' and similar changing damage types and enabling certain special attacks (possibly arcanae strikes)
-'defending' weapon giving bonus to parrying maneuvers and/or passive defense bonuses
-'holy' weapons giving bonuses to smite evil/undead abilities.
-'shadow' armor giving bonus (or negating armor penalty) to stealth
-'fitted' armor giving less encumberance
-'agile' armor giving bonus to dodge maneuvers or reflex defense
-'reinforced' armor giving extra defense against crits, sneak attacks, armor penetrating attacks etc.
-'fireproofed' armor (red dragon scale) giving defense vs fire damage, and similar.

Goblin Squad Member

What an interesting thread. I wonder if anyone recently arrived has anything to contribute?

Goblin Squad Member

"Gender-Changer" Every hit causes the target to suffer a gender change.

Jessica hits Bob.
Bob becomes Bobbett.
Bobbett freaks out.
Jessica hits Bobbett.
Bobbett becomes Bob.
Bob sighs in relief.
Jessica hits Bob again.
Bob becomes Bobbett again and thinks it might not be so bad...

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