How do Thug and the Enforcer feat interact?

[thorin001]

Thug; Frightening:
Whenever a thug successfully uses Intimidate to demoralize a creature, the duration of the shaken condition is increased by 1 round. In addition, if the target is shaken for 4 or more rounds, the thug can instead decide to make the target frightened for 1 round.

Enforcer:
Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

Example, my Thug with Enforcer hits someone with a sap (no crit) and beats the DC to demoralize by 10 and does 7 points of damage. How long is he shaken for? Can I make him frightened for a round?

[Cap. Darling]

I just imagined that it was a great move for a thug. But it Does look a bit on the good side. But then again, good stuff for the rogue gets my vote.

[Chris P. Bacon]

thorin001 wrote:

Example, my Thug with Enforcer hits someone with a sap (no crit) and beats the DC to demoralize by 10 and does 7 points of damage. How long is he shaken for? Can I make him frightened for a round?

It isn't entirely clear, but the way I run it in my games, the target should be shaken for 10 rounds. That's 7 from the damage, +2 for beating the DC by 10, +1 from Frightening. Or, you could make the target frightened for 1 round.

I can see different interpretations, however, such as one where Enforcer overrides other rules dictating the duration of the shaken condition. I don't know if there is an official ruling, sorry.

[blahpers]

Quote:

How do Thug and the Enforcer feat interact?

Very well, thank you.

[N N 959]

Assuming your quote is accurate, I read it like this:

1. Enforcer gets you 7 rounds of Shaken. No bonus for beating the DC by 5 because the Enforcer rules don't provide that. Rounds = Damage dealt. The check just determines if you get the benefit at all.

2. If Thug applies then you get 8 rounds of Shaken OR you can take 1 round of Frightened, "instead."

3. If you crit with Enforcer and Thug (let's say the damage is 14) You get 15 rounds of Shaken and 1 round of Frightened.

Remember, Thug says you can take the Shaken OR the Frightened. Note the use of the "instead".

[Faelyn]

thorin001 wrote:

Thug; Frightening:

Whenever a thug successfully uses Intimidate to demoralize a creature, the duration of the shaken condition is increased by 1 round. In addition, if the target is shaken for 4 or more rounds, the thug can instead decide to make the target frightened for 1 round.

Enforcer:
Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

Example, my Thug with Enforcer hits someone with a sap (no crit) and beats the DC to demoralize by 10 and does 7 points of damage. How long is he shaken for? Can I make him frightened for a round?

With your Example... the subject would be shaken for 8 rounds (7 rounds from the damage dealt from Enforcer, and then +1 round from the Thug). And then to the second question, yes you can make him frightened for 1 round as the total round of shaken condition exceed the minimum 4 rounds.

And yes, this is a very potent combination. Enforcer is a powerful option if you're looking for debuffing options as opposed to straight damage. Hopefully that helps!

Gah! Ninja'd!