Do You Have a Flag? No Flag No Country!


Kingmaker

Shadow Lodge

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I know I can't be the only person - player or GM - in this campaign whose group created a flag for their kingdom. Let's see what everyone has =)

Images if you have 'em, otherwise descriptions are fine =D

Here's Iomrall


No flag as such, but we have a crest for our country of Stagfell: the stags head from Falkreath in Skyrim.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

An owlbear peeking out from behind a tree.


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Flag of Vegvisir.

Shadow Lodge

I like the minimalistic color scheme =)


Thank you Orthos. :)
The animal in the center is a lil' draconic creature specific to my DM's world called a Shenryu, the more-or-less mascot of the eastern civilized world! I adore them and wanted to incorporate them somehow!


Two dead crossed fey over a field of dead fey


Behold, I present to you the flag of the grand kingdom of Sumeria.

I feel its too complicated a pattern for a flag, but it's what my players wanted.

Shadow Lodge

Very nice. I could see arguments either way for the complexity issue.


Yeah, lemme check the Google drive...

Yep, here. Coat of arms of Stevalos

You have to scroll down. For some reason Google put it on the middle of three pages when I uploaded it.


And this is the flag of Newhaven.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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JohnB wrote:
And this is the flag of Newhaven.

Will Newhaven add more dots to its flag as more PCs die?


Nope :) the dots on the Newhaven flag represent the five characters who founded the country.


Coat of Arms of Karradur


http://stolenlandscampaign.wikispaces.com/Kingdom+Heraldry+Page

This is the flag we came up with. The green and blue was chosen to represent the fertility of the new land; The suns represent the Oracle of Life, Tesfai, who worships Sarenrae, and the anvil and hammer in honour of Torag, the most popular deity in the party at the time.

The wyvern is in memory of when the cavalier, at 3rd level, one-shotted a wyvern. Mounted Lance Charge + Spirited Charge + Crit = the first and only time I've had to roll a Death by Massive Damage save.


Our kingdom hasn't been founded yet (PCs are currently dealing with the Sootscale kobolds), but since we realized almost everyone will be getting a familiar, mount, or animal companion, my players have started working on their own eventual personal heraldry, mostly based around animal symbols.

Mira, half-elf cleric of Desna = badger. (The badger was adopted by her after she killed her parents in self-defense. She'll also be incorporating butterflies into her designs, of course.)
Elena Ferraro, aasimar battle herald = horse.
Gogeth, dwarf paladin of Torag = ram. (We've decided to give him a custom large-sized ram mount, because it's thematically appropriate.)
Djedefre, serpentine-bloodline dhampir sorcderer = snake (viper).
Baith, half-elf ranger = mountain lion (blood cougar).

I look forward to seeing what they all come up with. Mira's player seems the most keen to come up with personal designs, and Elena's player is already thinking about the eventual kingdom's flag.


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Just in case there's someone out there bemoaning that they want a flag, but
don't have an artistic bone in their body...try: -
http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/
It's what I used to create the flag for my player's kingdom after none of
them showed much interest...


Oh, yoinked! Thanks for that link! :D

Shadow Lodge

Seconded!


Nice!!


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My players don't yet have a flag (or kingdom, they have just attacked the Stag Lord, and have only explored half their original charter), but I am so worried they will adopt their current unofficial logo;

A crossed bindlestiff and headsman's axe above a pile of gold. The motto is "morte et lucre" (death and money). They are really relishing the whole "murder hobo" aspect of D&D/Pathfinder.

The fighter/unofficial leader of the group has for her battlecry "I have a charter!"


My players have just started on the first book. That said, I can see them using their troop's logo as a flag at some point.

They are a travelling carnival collective that left Restov in a hurry with a charter they lifted off of a poor sap that attended their latest show. Self described as an event of 'wonder, excitement and mystery,' the Phoenix Eye Phantasmagoria have an eye painted in red on the side of their wagon. At the moment this is not extensively detailed, but I see this being a good source for a flag in the future.


Philip Knowsley wrote:

Just in case there's someone out there bemoaning that they want a flag, but

don't have an artistic bone in their body...try: -
http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/
It's what I used to create the flag for my player's kingdom after none of
them showed much interest...

Exactly the program I used. :) Good on ya for pointing it out though.

Shadow Lodge

Here's the flag in my campaign - the-conquerors-legacy.obsidianportal.com/wikis/aznagar

There was a lot of thought that went into it by the players:

Twin beasts of the rampant Bear and rampant Tatzlwyrm represent the influence of the Founders (the Druid has a Bear Companion) and the Tatzlwyrm which was the first threat that the Founders overcame when they set up the nation (the head of which in the council chamber in their capital.
The shield is divided per pale, the dexter green; representing the wilds of the Stolen Lands, the sinister blue; representing the Sellen River and it's influence to trade.
The stags antlers represent Erastil; the patron god of the country.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Heraldry for the Kingdom of Caerulus.


Honestly, flags are quite late as a representation for a given nation or kingdom (really nations didn't exist in the real world until the 1600's) as kingdoms are something else. Within the typical timeline between standard PF play and comparitive to the real world - flags aren't being used yet. Heraldic symbols (shield crests) on the other hand is quite appropos as royal/kingdom symbology.

No flag, means to me, its probably a kingdom. If you have a flag, means to me, no kingdom, but a nation, instead.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Banner of the Queen of Moreland

Simply;
Green, a stag’s head facing Black, within a double tressure-counter-tressure Gold.

Not simply;
Green, a stag’s head couped (with the neck cleanly separated from the body so that the whole head and neck are present, like a stuffed & mounted head), affronté (facing the viewer), voided (like a black and white copy where the green field shows through) Black, within a double tressure oak-&-acorns-counter-oak-&-acorns (this is similar to the King of Scots double tressure flory-counter-flory but replacing the fleur-de-lis with a trio of tiny oak leaves above and a trio of tiny acorns below each side of the tressure) Gold.

Originally, it was just the stag’s head, and the double tressure-counter-tressure was added after she married. This is still used as the Kingdom’s Emblem/Insignia/Arms.

Lately, after the Fellnight Queen, she is using the same but with the stag’s head and the double tressure-counter-tressure Silver (or White).

The Stag Lord, the Queen’s Consort, uses the original but with a Red border.

(The elk head we use is copy-righted, so we only use it in game.)


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gamer-printer wrote:

Honestly, flags are quite late as a representation for a given nation or kingdom (really nations didn't exist in the real world until the 1600's) as kingdoms are something else. Within the typical timeline between standard PF play and comparitive to the real world - flags aren't being used yet. Heraldic symbols (shield crests) on the other hand is quite appropos as royal/kingdom symbology.

No flag, means to me, its probably a kingdom. If you have a flag, means to me, no kingdom, but a nation, instead.

Congratulations, you're a pedant.


No, I'm a professional cartographer so proper use of flags, banners, and shields as labels is a part of doing that to fit various settings and analog timelines. Use of heraldic devices (shields) as banners would seem to best fit Kingmaker. Now upright samurai house flags might fit Minkai.


The Grand Duchy of Anatoray's flag.

The Exchange

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Shadowborn wrote:
gamer-printer wrote:

Honestly, flags are quite late as a representation for a given nation or kingdom (really nations didn't exist in the real world until the 1600's) as kingdoms are something else. Within the typical timeline between standard PF play and comparitive to the real world - flags aren't being used yet. Heraldic symbols (shield crests) on the other hand is quite appropos as royal/kingdom symbology.

No flag, means to me, its probably a kingdom. If you have a flag, means to me, no kingdom, but a nation, instead.

Congratulations, you're a pedant.

No he's one of those "use real-life ideals to suck the joy out of the game" guys....

Shadow Lodge

gamer-printer wrote:
No, I'm a professional cartographer so proper use of flags, banners, and shields as labels is a part of doing that to fit various settings and analog timelines.

Let me phrase it this way then.

No one cares.

Shadow Lodge

Fake Healer wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
gamer-printer wrote:

Honestly, flags are quite late as a representation for a given nation or kingdom (really nations didn't exist in the real world until the 1600's) as kingdoms are something else. Within the typical timeline between standard PF play and comparitive to the real world - flags aren't being used yet. Heraldic symbols (shield crests) on the other hand is quite appropos as royal/kingdom symbology.

No flag, means to me, its probably a kingdom. If you have a flag, means to me, no kingdom, but a nation, instead.

Congratulations, you're a pedant.

No he's one of those "use real-life ideals to suck the joy out of the game" guys....

"Stop having fun, guys!"


Not at all. I do it my way, and you're free to do it your way. I certainly don't make the rules, only the maps. I'm not making judgements on how you want to best label your maps to describe your nations. I am simply answering the question asked in the thread. Anyone is free to disagree.


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Honestly, I don't get all the vitriol being thrown at my response. You ask a question in the first post. I give an honest answer as it applies to my table. Which is followed by "No one cares", "Stop having fun". My players have fun and I'm not the only GM, others at my table might do things differently than I. So I guess, since I don't agree with the OP, I should not have responded at all. Apparently when a question is asked, if the answer is "not the way I do it", its not worth responding.

We do use heraldic symbols a lot in our games however, not flags though.

Shadow Lodge

Well, when the thread is about "show off the thing you've made" and you come in saying "you shouldn't be making things", then you shouldn't be surprised at people getting irritated at your comment.

You basically came in and told everyone in the thread "Hey, you're doing it wrong". If you'd just come in and posted some of the heraldry emblems your group uses - which some people here have already done, rather than posting flag images - no one would have complained. But you instead had to give a lecture about how anyone using flags is being anachronistic.


gamer-printer wrote:
No flag, means to me, its probably a kingdom. If you have a flag, means to me, no kingdom, but a nation, instead.

I should been more clear, "to me" is basically saying "at my table" (and nobody else's table.) I even said it twice - trying to be clear. We're talking "fluff" here, so how can anybody imply somebody else is doing fluff wrong - how is that even possible?

My table includes a history professor, a CNC operator who thinks he's a history genius, and myself as an amateur historian, so for 3 out of 7 members of my table in order to best achieve immersion in roleplaying we like our fluff to fit historic references. Being anachronistic in setting design has been very problematic for some members of my group in the past. So we try to cleave a bit closer to theme in our setting. 4 of our players, being exact in historic detail is no big deal, but for some of us it is. So we try a little harder to fit historic themes to keep everyone at our table happy. We're all friends so we are willing to comply to that need for some players.

In the end, any thread I post to that is not a rules question, rather a fluff question, any answer I give only applies to my group (ever). Since I don't game with anyone else (not in 25 years anyway.) Also note, we only play in home-brewed settings - so anything I might say cannot specifically apply to Golarian with authority. We ran Kingmaker in a very altered way to fit our medievil setting.

And if I meant to say "Hey, you're doing it wrong", I would have specifically stated that - which I didn't. So please don't put words in my mouth. If you cannot tell, in any forum response I give, I am very wordy, because I am trying to illucidate every nuance in my answer. If I don't say something, it usually means that thought was never there. Some people like to "read between the lines", please note, I never put anything "between the lines" its either in the lines, or not there.

Personally, I love heraldry and really into the nitty-gritty of heraldric rules, so think including coats of arms as kingdom insignia is a great aspect of our game.

Final thought: if you had said "Show off the thing you've made" I probably wouldn't have responded, but that's not what you said, you said, "Do you have a flag?" Which is a question that implies asking for answer, it in no way implies, "show off the thing you've made..." and so is why I answered at all. (Really, I wish this forum allowed you to post images, like most forums - because I am an artist and cartographer, I could ideally post more interesting stuff. I find it sad that this forum doesn't let you do that.)

The Exchange

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Orthos wrote:
..... But you instead had to give a lecture about how anyone using flags is being anachronistic.

and he still continues the lecture...historically accurate....we ran in a altered medieval setting....technically I am not thread crapping.....

All pedantic.


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@Fake Healer - you're right, since I wasn't clear in my first post that I only meant to clarify, why I don't use flags. I wasn't trying to imply "this is how its to be done." I was trying to explain the "why I choose my preference, only."

Indeed our homebrewed settings lean towards historical accurate treatments - its what we like in our games. It certainly not for everyone, nor should be consider necessary or even "best". I have certainly played in some wahoo, anachronistic, anything goes games and were quite fun. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've gotten to play something where history is not even a part of some fantasy setting.

When I make any point, I try to explain (perhaps in too much detail.) I'm done, I'll shutup now. ;)

Silver Crusade

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Liked for the Eddie Izzard reference :D

Shadow Lodge

Hrothdane wrote:
Liked for the Eddie Izzard reference :D

I couldn't resist =)

Shadow Lodge

gamer-printer wrote:
but that's not what you said, you said, "Do you have a flag?" Which is a question that implies asking for answer

Ah, well there's your mistake. No, I was not actually asking a question. I was just quoting this guy, because he's funny and it's relevant.


I see, totally unfamiliar with this guy. Sorry, I misunderstood.

Sovereign Court

So I have not yet created the official flag to fly over the castle, but we did start off with our king (before he was king) handing out "Ausk Banners"... basically a banner depicting himself which would indicate an ally (or at least not an enemy) when displayed upon approach. It has become a standard greeting (pardon the pun) at this point: "Hi, I am Ausk. Please, have a banner."


In Rite Publishing's Way of the Samurai (PFRPG), I included 36 kammon or samurai house crests that players can choose one to represent their samurai character's family crest (all based on actual house crests, though I didn't provide each crest's family name, leaving that open to GM/Players to choose for themselves.)

Japanese flags bearing these crests attached to a pole are tall and narrow, rather than the traditional orientation of western flags. Often these are worn attached to a short pole on the back of a mounted warrior's armor so foot soldiers can identify where their unit commander is on the field of battle. These symbols are also carved into the wooden gates of Japanese castles, embroidered on samurai tunics, made into metal seals or printed on documents.

Unlike European heraldry, instead of animals, the Japanese use mostly simplified icons of plants and flowers.

Here is a link to my Kaidan G+ page where 12 of those kammon family crest symbols are posted.

Note though these are black and white. They are normally black or white placed on a field of the house color.


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Don't mean to interrupt the vitriol, but This is the flag for the Soviergn Nation of Verlandia

There are also smaller pennants to go with the flag, such at the tie-dye riot of color used by the fey to show their alliegance, the waterhorse of Varnhold, the claw-print of the kobolds who live underneath much of Varnhold, and the image of Skybolt with a quartet of hooves within the arc used to show the alliegance of the Nomen centaurs...

Maybe one day we can get those up too!!

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