Killing Vampires With Anti-Magic


Rules Questions


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Okay, so say you've been fighting a vampire and you finally knock him down to 0 HP, he assumes his mist form and is trying to book back to his coffin. What happens when you say, try and transform him back?

It's a (Su) so you can't dispel it, but at a certain level a Wizard can just cast Anti-Magic on the area. Or an Inquisitor Banish Seeming it back to it's original form?

This happened in my last game, and was curious as to what the RAW stance is. As far as I can tell, it totally works and results in the Vampires instant death(Since they can't get to their coffin). Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

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I have run into this as well and we generally rule that it stays as a vampire body while in the field and its timer of two hours keeps running. If he two hours are up and it is still in the field it dies but if it escapes (the field is removed) it can assume gaseous form and flee to its coffin hoping it has enough time. I do not think it would instantly kill it because that seems a bit strong but I am not fully sure. It may though as the ability is SU and anti magic field stops that fro activating.

Liberty's Edge

This is one of those corner cases the rules don't cover and as such is really left up to the GM.

Personally, for a minion vampire I'd probably have ruled the same as you did, but if it was a BBEG vampire (or a mythic vampire) I'd probably make the pcs work at it a little harder.


Seems that assuming corporeal form again would let you do the old 'stuff holy wafers down it's mouth and cut off its head' bit.


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I would rule it as the gaseous form effect is suppressed thus since it is still helpless until reaching it's coffin.. The rules state that the Vampire is only immune to further damage while still in gaseous form but since that was disrupted it can then be disposed of through staking it's unconscious body.

I see the scenario playing out as follows.

Damage drops Vampire to 0 and he disperses into mist. Wizard says, "Not on my watch!" and casts Antimagic Zone and forces the Vampire to re-corporate. Vampire is still at 0. Paladin walks up and slams the vampire into the dirt with a smite. Cleric proceeds to stake it.


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Vampires are not actually helpless when in gaseous form, they can still dominate, cast spells, etc


CWheezy wrote:
Vampires are not actually helpless when in gaseous form, they can still dominate, cast spells, etc

really? explain how a gas can use somatic, material, verbal, or other components of a spell...to cast a spell (unless its a silent+still spell)you pretty much HAVE to have a body of some kind to use the specific components involved in its casting. i'm not too sure about the dominate ability from the vampire, but i would assume it would also still require a body. ill check though


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/vampire

You'll notice this vampire has silent and still spells, and their at will dominate is a (Su) ability, no body or components needed


CWheezy wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/vampire

You'll notice this vampire has silent and still spells, and their at will dominate is a (Su) ability, no body or components needed

agreed about the dominate ability. but just because the basic stat block vampire has still spell and silent spell doesnt mean its part of the monster. vampires gain levels like a PC, so it is entirely possible to have one that cant even cast spells. i did mention that it needed both metamagic to make that work, without them, you need a body. you dont get them for free just because you are a vampire, though.


Depending on the spell you might only need one, also if they have any spell-likes they can cast those while in gaseous form since those are mental activation only


Hmm... I thought something sounded wonky or my vampires would last longer...

d20pfsrd, Gaseous Form wrote:

The subject and all its gear become insubstantial, misty, and translucent. Its material armor (including natural armor) becomes worthless, though its size, Dexterity, deflection bonuses, and armor bonuses from force effects still apply. The subject gains DR 10/magic and becomes immune to poison, sneak attacks, and critical hits. It can't attack or cast spells with verbal, somatic, material, or focus components while in gaseous form. This does not rule out the use of certain spells that the subject may have prepared using the feats Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Eschew Materials. The subject also loses supernatural abilities while in gaseous form. If it has a touch spell ready to use, that spell is discharged harmlessly when the gaseous form spell takes effect.

A gaseous creature can't run, but it can fly at a speed of 10 feet and automatically succeeds on all Fly skill checks. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all it was wearing or holding in its hands, as long as the spell persists. The creature is subject to the effects of wind, and it can't enter water or other liquid. It also can't manipulate objects or activate items, even those carried along with its gaseous form. Continuously active items remain active, though in some cases their effects may be moot.

Emphasis mine.. Domination is out, unfortunately.


Hmm. Well there you go...no Su.

Ultimately, it would really depend on the specific vampire as to weather its helpless or not.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Darth Grall wrote:
It's a (Su) so you can't dispel it Thoughts?

Su, Sp, Spells, Magic Items, etc. None of these work in Anti-Magic fields.

So he turns back into his non-magical form.


I think we all agree that you can turn them back to their original form, the question I have is if it automatically triggers the kill clause.

Quote:
It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed.

If you turn them back to their real form, wouldn't they just be destroyed? Or is the effect just suppressed till the effect ends and they would resume their journey to their coffin since they'd still be at 0?

I mean, either way they're dead since once turned back to their form, you can kill them easily with beheading and such, but just curious on if there is even a need to put in the work on em.


seeing as how they are FORCED into gas form when they go below 0, if you change them back to normal, even if it means that they don't have the 2 hours before they die, they are still unconscious and dying in their normal form, so as long as the anti-magic field stays in place, they are going to bleed out and die eventually unless they make their save to stabilize.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Another way to look at/play it, is since it is a forced conversion (assuming gaseous form) it could be similar to how Golems still work inside AMF areas and it doesn't revert.

Just throwing it out there.


Shimesen wrote:
seeing as how they are FORCED into gas form when they go below 0, if you change them back to normal, even if it means that they don't have the 2 hours before they die, they are still unconscious and dying in their normal form, so as long as the anti-magic field stays in place, they are going to bleed out and die eventually unless they make their save to stabilize.

Don't undead by rules die at 0? So no bleeding out or anything. In fact I think they're immune to bleeding IIRC. So no dying condition.

So for me I still think it boils down to one of two rules interpretations:

1- They should instantly be destroyed, since they're still undead at 0 and their special trigger to keep them alive doesn't work(or as if they didn't reach their coffin in time).

2- It's though they had reformed in their coffin and are helpless.

Rathendar wrote:

Another way to look at/play it, is since it is a forced conversion (assuming gaseous form) it could be similar to how Golems still work inside AMF areas and it doesn't revert.

Just throwing it out there.

I could see someone ruling it that way, however it still is a (Su) and not called out as a thing that would still work in an AMF, so I'm less inclined to rule it that way in my game. I mean I get undead work in it, but it doesn't protect their Supernatural abilities.


I completely forgot they are undead! Yes...if you revert them with an AMF, they die...plain and simple. 0=dead for him/them.


Once in gaseous form, “A gaseous creature can't run, but it can fly at a speed of 10 feet and automatically succeeds on all Fly skill checks. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all it was wearing or holding in its hands, as long as the spell persists. The creature is subject to the effects of wind, and it can't enter water or other liquid...”

So another way to kill a vampire would be to capture & hold it’s body - physical or gaseous - in a tub of holy water. It’s stuck there - it can’t escape, and eventually it’s 2 hour timer runs out.

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