Empowered or maximized for duration spells

[Laveral]

Can a spell like flaming sphere or ball lightning have the empowered or maximized feats applied to them?

[James Risner]

Laveral wrote:

Can a spell like flaming sphere or ball lightning have the empowered or maximized feats applied to them?

Yes the damage values would be increased as described.

[Ravingdork]

And also, spells with variable durations would have those increased as well.

[Remy Balster]

Only variables. But… ALL variables.

Spoiler:

A vivid cone of clashing colors springs forth from your hand, causing creatures to become stunned, perhaps also blinded, and possibly knocking them unconscious. Each creature within the cone is affected according to its HD.
2 HD or less: The creature is unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious.)
3 or 4 HD: The creature is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, then stunned for 1 round.
5 or more HD: The creature is stunned for 1 round.
Sightless creatures are not affected by color spray.

This spell, Color Spray, would have all of the durations that are expressed as die rolls increased by Empower, or maximized by Maximize.
So, for example… a Maximized Color Spray would cause 2 HD or less creatures to become unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 8 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round.

Which is pretty beasty.

[James Risner]

Ravingdork wrote:

And also, spells with variable durations would have those increased as well.

Do you have a FAQ or Dev comment on this?

Quote:

Empower Spell

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Because I wouldn't call the duration an effect.

[ryric]

I don't know of any official ruling, but it sure doesn't seem broken to allow it. Extend Spell is still better at increasing durations, and it's a lower cost metamagic.

[Ravingdork]

James Risner wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

And also, spells with variable durations would have those increased as well.

Do you have a FAQ or Dev comment on this?

Quote:

Empower Spell

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Because I wouldn't call the duration an effect.

I hadn't considered that. I can see it being interpreted either way.

For some people, like myself, the duration is most definitely part of the spell's effects.

[LazarX]

Remy Balster wrote:

Only variables. But… ALL variables.

** spoiler omitted **

This spell, Color Spray, would have all of the durations that are expressed as die rolls increased by Empower, or maximized by Maximize.
So, for example… a Maximized Color Spray would cause 2 HD or less creatures to become unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 8 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round.

Which is pretty beasty.

By the time you have the levels to apply maximise on color spray, you do realise that you'll be casting it on creatures who will make the save if they roll like a 3 on the die?

[Jeff Merola]

LazarX wrote:

Remy Balster wrote:

Only variables. But… ALL variables.

** spoiler omitted **

This spell, Color Spray, would have all of the durations that are expressed as die rolls increased by Empower, or maximized by Maximize.
So, for example… a Maximized Color Spray would cause 2 HD or less creatures to become unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 8 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round.

Which is pretty beasty.

By the time you have the levels to apply maximise on color spray, you do realise that you'll be casting it on creatures who will make the save if they roll like a 3 on the die?

Not if you're, say, a Heavens Oracle that's designed around using Color Spray. Fourth level slot, so that's 8th level, meaning you can have a DC of 21 without that much effort. DC 22 if you're a Gnome.

The average CR 12 monster would have to roll a 7 or better if the Gnome is hitting its best save. That's a boss level monster and it has a 30% chance of failure. Imagine using it on the mooks.

Alternatively, take Color Spray and apply Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage. You now can Maximize the spell out of a 2nd level slot.

[Remy Balster]

Jeff Merola wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Remy Balster wrote:

Only variables. But… ALL variables.

** spoiler omitted **

This spell, Color Spray, would have all of the durations that are expressed as die rolls increased by Empower, or maximized by Maximize.
So, for example… a Maximized Color Spray would cause 2 HD or less creatures to become unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 8 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round.

Which is pretty beasty.

By the time you have the levels to apply maximise on color spray, you do realise that you'll be casting it on creatures who will make the save if they roll like a 3 on the die?

Not if you're, say, a Heavens Oracle that's designed around using Color Spray. Fourth level slot, so that's 8th level, meaning you can have a DC of 21 without that much effort. DC 22 if you're a Gnome.

The average CR 12 monster would have to roll a 7 or better if the Gnome is hitting its best save. That's a boss level monster and it has a 30% chance of failure. Imagine using it on the mooks.

Alternatively, take Color Spray and apply Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage. You now can Maximize the spell out of a 2nd level slot.

Hey!! I was going to say all of that. No fair :P

Yeah, this spell in particular can be broken in a few really fun ways. ^.^