What kind of builds or concepts might a synth dip be useful for?
This is sort of just a brainstorming thread to see if any interesting ideas pop up. What are some good uses for an eidolon suit that may be worth dipping for? Any evolutions that maybe normally aren't great, but they could be nice for specific builds?
Anything that doesn't wear armor or invest into physical stats, and wants extra health, energy immunity/skills, and summons.
AKA 90% or more of builds. There is a reason that most tables ban Synth.
It is not legal in PFS. Says so right in the Additional Resources document.
Timebomb wrote: Anything that doesn't wear armor or invest into physical stats, and wants extra health, energy immunity/skills, and summons.
AKA 90% or more of builds. There is a reason that most tables ban Synth.
Yeah, I feel like this is extremely inaccurate.
Master of the Dark Triad wrote: Yeah, I feel like this is extremely inaccurate. Well... care to explain?
Do you disagree that 90% of builds would rather not have to wear armor and invest in physical stats, or that 90% of builds don't want extra health, energy immunity, skills, or summons?
Timebomb wrote: Master of the Dark Triad wrote: Yeah, I feel like this is extremely inaccurate. Well... care to explain?
Do you disagree that 90% of builds would rather not have to wear armor and invest in physical stats, or that 90% of builds don't want extra health, energy immunity, skills, or summons? ...if a fighter, for example, took say two levels of Synth, his physical stats would be worse than if he just started them high with a point buy.
Likewise, he'd be better off with armor than a synth dip.
Maybe you just missed the dip part of the thread. That must be it.
So you're saying that someone who wants to wear armor and invest in physical stats doesn't fall in someone who "doesn't wear armor or invest into physical stats"... explain to me again why you disagree?
No, I didn't miss the thread title. No need to be rude.
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I think he disagrees with your assertion that 90% of builds do not invest in physical stats/heavy armor.
The best dips in my experience for a one level dip of summoner are those that are based on skills and natural armor. Getting +8 to 3 or more skills is tremendous and a +2 to AC is very good at low levels.
It's a bit tricky, because in general casters suffer from dips, while martials will have better physical stats without a synthesist dip. So for a character to profit from a synthesist dip he'd have to be a martial whose main ability score is a mental one. So that might make it a solid dip for a zen archer monk (who doesn't need any help in the first place), or for a sensei monk. That one actually kinda makes sense, as the natural armor increase is super useful to a monk, as is the ability to cast or use wands of mage armor.
So, for a sensei with one level of synthesist, you could start with ability scores something like:
str 10, dex 10, con 12, int 10, wis 18+2, cha 11.
Then, wearing a bipedal eidolon suit with evolution points spend on strength increase and natural armor, you go to :
str 18, dex 12, con 13, int 10, wis 20, cha 11
So now you're a sensei with a +2 natural armor bonus who has the strength to do solid damage and the wisdom to be great at monk abilities like stunning fist. I'd possibly add the monk of the lotus archetype (and off course qinggong), and wield a temple sword in two hands.
137ben wrote: I think he disagrees with your assertion that 90% of builds do not invest in physical stats/heavy armor. Thank you.
soupturtle wrote: It's a bit tricky, because in general casters suffer from dips, while martials will have better physical stats without a synthesist dip. So for a character to profit from a synthesist dip he'd have to be a martial whose main ability score is a mental one. So that might make it a solid dip for a zen archer monk (who doesn't need any help in the first place), or for a sensei monk. That one actually kinda makes sense, as the natural armor increase is super useful to a monk, as is the ability to cast or use wands of mage armor.
So, for a sensei with one level of synthesist, you could start with ability scores something like:
str 10, dex 10, con 12, int 10, wis 18+2, cha 11.
Then, wearing a bipedal eidolon suit with evolution points spend on strength increase and natural armor, you go to :
str 18, dex 12, con 13, int 10, wis 20, cha 11
So now you're a sensei with a +2 natural armor bonus who has the strength to do solid damage and the wisdom to be great at monk abilities like stunning fist. I'd possibly add the monk of the lotus archetype (and off course qinggong), and wield a temple sword in two hands.
And all of a sudden, we have a non cheesy way to make a monk at least semi effective. This is very cool, thank you. I'm going to look into more monk uses for a synth dip.
Anything else?
Timebomb is pretty accurate with his statement.
While browsing Roll20, in the descriptions of the campaigns, I see quite often "Synth Summoner or Summoners are banned". It must be for very good reason.
Anyways, aside from that, I could imagine a Monk or Druid would greatly benefit from the dip. They don't use any armor at all, and I can foresee their unarmed or natural attacks combining well with that of the Eidolon. Also, with such significant stat increases, that would help with the MAD problem those two classes tend to run into. It would make sense that anyone that generally wears light or medium armor would benefit well, also.
Other than making that observation, I can't recommend anything. I'd rather not dabble in a fairly "broken" class that is banned roughly 60% of the time.
Kazumetsa Raijin wrote: Timebomb is pretty accurate with his statement.
While browsing Roll20, in the descriptions of the campaigns, I see quite often "Synth Summoner or Summoners are banned". It must be for very good reason.
Anyways, aside from that, I could imagine a Monk or Druid would greatly benefit from the dip. They don't use any armor at all, and I can foresee their unarmed or natural attacks combining well with that of the Eidolon. Also, with such significant stat increases, that would help with the MAD problem those two classes tend to run into. It would make sense that anyone that generally wears light or medium armor would benefit well, also.
Other than making that observation, I can't recommend anything. I'd rather not dabble in a fairly "broken" class that is banned roughly 60% of the time.
I'll look into Druid too, thanks.
Also, I can respect that standpoint on discussing synthesists. I'm glad you didn't purely post to say that it's pointless to talk about synths. It's nice to see good people on the Internet these days.
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