Myriana, diplomacy and the magic trait


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure, Card Game, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Adventure deck 3, monster called Myriana has two checks to defeat, combat 14 or diplomacy 10.
In the text on the card it says "if the check to defeat does not have the magic trait, Myriana is undefeated."
How do you have the magic trait with the diplomacy check?
Should the magic trait requirement only apply to the coast check?


i think this should be in the card section?


It makes sense that the combat check would need the magic trait, since she is a ghost. It doesn't make sense that the diplomacy check would require the magic trait since you are...

spoiler:
...empathizing with her loss of Lamatar, and agreeing to find his remains - and generally not ticking her off.

No real need of magic to accomplish that.

That's how I played it, anyway.


Currently, Kyra is the only character that can add the magic trait to a non-combat check. She accomplishes this through her ability to add d8 and the magic trait to a check against undead.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

fraserstanton wrote:

Adventure deck 3, monster called Myriana has two checks to defeat, combat 14 or diplomacy 10.

In the text on the card it says "if the check to defeat does not have the magic trait, Myriana is undefeated."
How do you have the magic trait with the diplomacy check?
Should the magic trait requirement only apply to the coast check?

You can talk her out of hurting you, but you can't talk her into surrendering.

excerpt from Rise of the Runelords:
Once soul-shakingly beautiful, the nymph princess Myriana is now a haggard, ghostly horror. Her disembodied arms float at her sides, exposed bone and sinew stretching toward her torso but ever too far out of reach. Her lower torso fades away to smoke, savaged too cruelly by the ogres for even her insane ghost to retain. But her most terrifying feature is her eyes: wells of hellish horror, crying out silently in an agony beyond anything a mortal creature could ever know. They reduce those who try to hold her gaze to gibbering children. She is beauty undone, and torment incarnate.
As the PCs enter her twisted glade, the ghostly nymph rises with a howl from the waters. Although she doesn’t immediately attack the PCs, her blinding beauty is in full effect. In a shrieking, hate-filled voice, she accuses the PCs of failing Lamatar, of failing to protect Fort Rannick, and of allowing the Kreeg ogres to take him to their lair high on Hook Mountain. She allows the PCs a few minutes to state their case, and to explain why they have come to Whitewillow. If the PCs ask her what they can do to help, she simply bemoans the fact that her love Lamatar was taken by ogres and that she was unable to save him. She knows in her heart he is now dead, but when she tried to reincarnate him, foul magic prevented his soul from returning to his new body. She begs the PCs to find his remains and return them to her—she needs not the entire body. A lock of hair or a single finger will do.
If the PCs insist on the possibility that Lamatar can’t be reincarnated due to the fact he may still live, Myriana grows increasingly agitated—for if he still lived, he would surely have returned to her by now. Further insisting Lamatar is alive, mocking the ghost, or simply not agreeing to seek out the commander’s remains quickly spurs the undead nymph to attack.

TACTICS

During Combat: Although Myriana is undead, she was made so by despair, not hate. She would rather recruit the PCs than harm them. She prefers to use her stunning glance to defeat foes without causing lasting harm, but if pressed uses her magic and corrupting gaze to get her point across.

Morale: As long as her lover remains atop Hook Mountain as an undead monster, Myriana cannot be slain forever. She fights until destroyed, then rejuvenates with the next sunset and sends Yap to gather the PCs to her side once again—if she’s ignored, she may turn her wrath against Turtleback Ferry.

---
So what's really going on here is that you can't defeat her by fighting her—you actually defeat her by putting her lover—who is now himself an undead wight—to rest. (Yes, he's another card in the game that you deal with separately, but don't think about that too hard.)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Myriana's Diplomacy check to defeat requiring the magic trait is just like Iesha Foxglove's, who you might have encountered during Foul Misgivings in the Skinsaw Murders (adventure 2).

But, while Iesha is a villain and so only encountered during that particular scenario, Myriana is a monster, so she can be encountered in future adventures as well, which means Seelah will have had an opportunity to take her Crusader role and pick up the power "Add 1d8 with the Magic trait to your check to defeat a bane with the Undead trait." So she'd be able to add the magic trait to her diplomacy check too, just like Kyra. But since neither Kyra nor Seelah have the Diplomacy skill, they'd both be rolling 1d4 + 1d8 to against a difficulty of 10.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Myriana's Diplomacy check to defeat requiring the magic trait is just like Iesha Foxglove's, who you might have encountered during Foul Misgivings in the Skinsaw Murders (adventure 2).

But, while Iesha is a villain and so only encountered during that particular scenario, Myriana is a monster, so she can be encountered in future adventures as well, which means Seelah will have had an opportunity to take her Crusader role and pick up the power "Add 1d8 with the Magic trait to your check to defeat a bane with the Undead trait." So she'd be able to add the magic trait to her diplomacy check too, just like Kyra. But since neither Kyra nor Seelah have the Diplomacy skill, they'd both be rolling 1d4 + 1d8 to against a difficulty of 10.

Quite a interesting find you made.


So if a diplomacy check is easier for you, you can succeed at that check to avoid taking damage, but she goes back into the location deck.


Pixel Hunter wrote:
So if a diplomacy check is easier for you, you can succeed at that check to avoid taking damage, but she goes back into the location deck.

Actually, the card would be defeated. She's no longer a obstacle. You persuaded her that you would help and she goes to the box to hang out.

Good question, though.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

This is indeed the same as Iesha Foxglove. We haven't seen all the cards in the adventure path, so it is possible that there might be some card that adds the magic trait to a diplomacy check...e.g., either because it says "...add #d# and the magic trait to..." when you play it, or because it is a "define the dice you roll for a check" card and happens to be applicable to this situation / type of check (e.g., a spell card that has the magic trait on the card that says "For your check to defeat a monster with the X trait, roll your arcane / divine die plus #d#..." or something like that).

Cards that "define the die" add their traits to their checks, so such a card would add the magic trait, if it has it...but to my knowledge there are no cards like this that would apply to a diplomacy check.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Cedfaz wrote:
Pixel Hunter wrote:
So if a diplomacy check is easier for you, you can succeed at that check to avoid taking damage, but she goes back into the location deck.

Actually, the card would be defeated. She's no longer a obstacle. You persuaded her that you would help and she goes to the box to hang out.

Good question, though.

I think Pixel Hunter meant that even if you couldn't add the Magic trait to your Diplomacy check (i.e. you aren't Kyra or Crusader Seelah), you can still opt for the Diplomacy check, but since it would lack the Magic trait, you would have to shuffle her back into the location deck.

For example: maybe you only have 1 weapon, but you have the Crown of Charisma. You could use the Crown of Charisma to succeed at the difficulty of the Diplomacy check, but since it would lack the Magic trait, Myriana would be undefeated. So no damage for failing to defeat a monster, but she isn't banished either.

Or maybe you are Seoni and encounter her with no attack spells in hand. You could use your power for combat, but you don't have any cards you want to discard. So instead you attempt the Diplomacy check. You could roll high enough and therefore take no damage, but she'd be undefeated for lack of the Magic trait, so you'd shuffle her back into the location deck.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Cedfaz wrote:
Pixel Hunter wrote:
So if a diplomacy check is easier for you, you can succeed at that check to avoid taking damage, but she goes back into the location deck.

Actually, the card would be defeated. She's no longer a obstacle. You persuaded her that you would help and she goes to the box to hang out.

Good question, though.

Stuff I should have been more clear on.

Yes, that.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
For example: maybe you only have 1 weapon, but you have the Crown of Charisma. You could use the Crown of Charisma to succeed at the difficulty of the Diplomacy check, but since it would lack the Magic trait, Myriana would be undefeated. So no damage for failing to defeat a monster, but she isn't banished either.

I thought the Crown of Charisma has the magic trait, so wouldn't it add the magic trait to your check when you use it and thus defeat her?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

No, because it is not played to "Determine which die you are using" it is played to "Play cards and use powers that affect the check". And cards played then do not add their traits to the check.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
it is played to "Play cards and use powers that affect the check". And cards played then do not add their traits to the check.

Minor clarification: They do not automatically add traits. They add traits that the power of the card being used instructs you to add.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Thanks. When I said "their traits" I meant the traits of the card itself, not anything mentioned in the powers. If a power tells you to add a trait, that is different and not necessarily related to the traits of the card. But it never hurts to be clear.


Another example is the Amulet of Mighty Fists. It has the Accessory, Magic, and Basic traits on the card. Yet because the Amulet doe not determine the die used for a check, you do not automatically apply those traits to your check. But because the Amulet says "Reveal this card to add 1d4 with the Magic trait" in the Powers text, your check will have the Magic trait added.

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