Ironbriar and crazy PCs (spoilers)


Rise of the Runelords


I'm running Rise of the Runelords and they are almost finished with Skinsaw Murders.

Spoiler:
they just finished the sawmill and killed everybody, but didn't talk along the way. They found the ledger, but haven't deciphered it yet. They were able to follow the ravens to the Shadow Clock and went straight there, leaving the sawmill running with a pile of dead bodies inside and obviously ransacked.

They also got the city watch involved when they

Spoiler:
broke into the Foxglove house and killed the faceless stalkers. The PCs made a big deal of saying they killed Aldern and solved the murders in Sandpoint.

So they've only been in Magnimar 24 hours, but it seems like they may be making waves already. I also would like to point out to them that they are in a large city and cannot just run around kicking down doors and killing people. Especially when they take all the evil magic items and immediately go sell them.

Any ideas?


Regarding the evil items, I'm sure there are any number of good-aligned churches in Magnimar who would find out and be happy to give the party a "tap on the shoulder".
I have a vague recollection that there is a paladin chapter house of some kind in Magnimar too - they might be inclined towards a very active discouragement of that kind of behaviour AND have a keen interest in the source of said evil items.
There is also a Pathfinder presence in Magnimar who are very likely to have their ear to the ground and be interested in the appearance of items such as this. They could draw on people that would certainly challenge the party should things turn ugly.
Hell, there would be plenty of sczarni gangs that would find out and also be interested to know.
Might be some relatives of Skinsaw victims with a score to settle too.


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LankyOgre wrote:

I'm running Rise of the Runelords and they are almost finished with Skinsaw Murders.

** spoiler omitted **

They also got the city watch involved when they ** spoiler omitted **

So they've only been in Magnimar 24 hours, but it seems like they may be making waves already. I also would like to point out to them that they are in a large city and cannot just run around kicking down doors and killing people. Especially when they take all the evil magic items and immediately go sell them.

Any ideas?

On the evil item thing, selling evil items to anyone besides a good temple should be an evil act that moves your alignment that direction. Even neutral characters should have no interest in such items being used by anyone. Furthermore selling such items to good temples should improve the party's overall reputation which, again, should be valuable to even to neutral characters.

That being said though, I'm not sure I see much else in the way of trouble. This is not the town/city you live in (I hope that's not too much of a leap) - the authorities in Magnimar don't have a bill of rights to respect, the populace doesn't have much expectation for painstaking due process nor are there any notable restriction of weapon possession. Violence is a much more accepted part of the society. If I were to respond as Magnimar's Lord Mayor, it would go something like this:

"The Heroes of Sandpoint are in town? And they've done what? Adventurers <snort of contempt.> Still... these boys seem pretty effective - they cleaned up that trouble in Sandpoint and stopped that miserable traitor Ironbriar. Did it quick and without a lot of fanfare. Limited publicity for these things is always good for business. Even so, we don't need any talk about faceless stalkers impersonating nobles, murder cults or corrupt Justices. The guards I can silence but these characters may start talking. Heck, next thing I know there'll be some play all about it at that upstart theater up in Sandpoint and then someone will want to bring it here. Nope. Can't have that. What to do...? What to do...? I know - Turtleback Ferry. They'll be out of town and out of mind. With any luck they'll be killed by ogres or whatever lives on that stupid mountain. And if not, another problem solved. I win either way."

The player's reward for cleaning up other people's messes? Bigger messes.


Well, for now they haven't actually told anybody that Ironbriar was involved. His dead body is just at a sawmill without any trappings of his religious ties. I'm just wondering how long is plausible before rumors spread about justices being slaughtered. The party also has a medium size badger, so some wounds might be fairly obvious.


So would a neutral character likewise not use a "good" item Latrecis?


Latrecis wrote:
LankyOgre wrote:

If I were to respond as Magnimar's Lord Mayor, it would go something like this:

"The Heroes of Sandpoint are in town? And they've done what? Adventurers <snort of contempt.> Still... these boys seem pretty effective - they cleaned up that trouble in Sandpoint and stopped that miserable traitor Ironbriar. Did it quick and without a lot of fanfare. Limited publicity for these things is always good for business. Even so, we don't need any talk about faceless stalkers impersonating nobles, murder cults or corrupt Justices. The guards I can silence but these characters may start talking. Heck, next thing I know there'll be some play all about it at that upstart theater up in Sandpoint and...

I love that sort of response; not too heavy-handed, takes into account the Pc's actions, keeps the plot moving. This is the best approach, I like the approach as opposed to the "they did WHAT? Release the ninjas" approach.


Fraust wrote:
So would a neutral character likewise not use a "good" item Latrecis?

I'll give that a rigorous "it depends."

If a character is Neutral in the old style True Neutral sense where he/she strives to keep good and evil in balance, then such a character might use good or evil items as needed to pursue his/her concept of balance. However in my experience few players if any choose that version of Neutral, rather they choose Neutral so they can dodge expectations of having to be good whenever someone needy arrives and can justify getting the powers that be to pay them for their good deeds (as opposed to doing good for the sake of good itself like those goody-two-shoe paladin types.) They want to be mercenaries - think Han Solo - he's a scoundrel surviving on his wits but no way he works for Vader.

Further I'd argue "balance" characters have no place in the AP as written. Proceeding through the AP, the players do an immense amount of good - smashing goblin tribes, taking down insane aasimar clerics of lamashtu trying to become a succubus, and slaying ghouls, serial killers, murder cultists, corrupt justices (who worship Norberger) and taking out a top agent of the most powerful evil being within a 1000 miles. Umm not to to be too contrary, but selling a few norberger masks in NO way balances that out.

I view good as welcoming and evil as corrupting - the exposure and experience of evil stays with you longer and is far more dangerous. Even Neutral temples are going to be doing some checking (detect evil, etc.) before giving you support - "So just what have you been up to, eh? Looks like you might need some atonement... ($$$)" I also think good and neutral are far more likely mutually coexist and exhibit some tolerance for each other where neither will have much tolerance for evil (which by its very definition is inimical to both.)


Wow, I had just been contemplating a similar situation for ages (and we settled it/played last night).

I had the city watch turn up at the mill with a sergeant that had been investigating Ironbriar for some time.

My party were at least wondering how they were going to approach this sticky situation, and when they came clean the sgt was very pleased with them and was happy that his suspicions were confirmed.

He then stated he would deal with the mayor and arrange for Ironbriar's residence to be searched. Of course, this sergeant was taking some of the PC's thunder, but at the same time they gained an ally in the city watch (who was hoping for promotions to the 'upper city') and eventually a meeting with the mayor. (Who later sent them off to Turtleback Ferry - and I was thinking very much like the post above. Great description of the Mayor's thoughts :)).


My group was... quite cunning with what they did. They'd previously made a contact with the guards as I'd run the free module "Dawn of the Scarlet Sun" for the group - with Ironbriar having told the guard to recruit them to handle this. After they did, Ironbriar ordered the arrest of the PCs and the guard warned them - the thoughts of the PCs and guard were "he's cracking, he's desperate for this case to be solved." (The guards were thinking Ironbriar was cracking anyway as the two cases were obviously not related and with different MOs.)

The PCs proceed to investigate Aldern's townhouse and take out the stalkers (I had three stalkers - two as hired guards and a third as Aldern - rather than having one pretend to be Aldern's wife as they could then explain away her death if it had been discovered), and learned of the lumbermill.

After wiping out most of the enemy there and taking Ironbriar alive, one of the PCs suddenly said "hey wait a minute, he's an elf... I wonder if he's Ironbriar?" So before reviving Ironbriar they sent the sneakthief (as one player calls the NPC - he calls the half-orc barbarian "pig-monster" and the halfling cleric "hairfoot" so it's just his being snarky, though "sneakthief" did warn him she could always live up to her name if he kept it up) to find the guards.

They kept the guard in the other room, and revived Ironbriar. After Ironbriar got the halfling cleric to promise to give him a 24-hour start, he admitted everything (except for being the head of the cult - he kept claiming Xanesha mind-controlled everyone, but one well-rolled Spellcraft roll allowed the PCs to point out Charm doesn't work that way). Then they let him go.

He walked into the next room and into the guard. Half almost died from his Channel Negative Energy, but he was in the single digits for hit points and went down quickly. (And then the Cleric healed the guards except for Ironbriar.)

I must admit. I was truly tickled at how cunning and brilliant they were in getting around Ironbriar. :)


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My group (who also couldn't decode the journal at first) recognized that slaughtering Ironbriar in his own corrupt city probably wasn't going to go over well for them unless they could find concrete proof of his wrongdoings, so they set themselves up with a home base in the Underbridge district, where the hand of the law was weakest. They didn't actually know at that point that their final destination for the adventure was also going to be in Underbridge, so it was lucky for them that they made that decision.

They basically finished the rest of the book while on the run from the law and hiding out in Underbridge, and managed to decode the journal just before the final dungeon. The fights in that dungeon ended up alerting the local citizens (crashing bells are loud), and so they had quite an audience for their final fight of the book.

With the fighting out of the way, the PCs (backed by basically the entire Underbridge district) marched right up to the head justice of the city with the journal as proof of Ironbriar's misdeeds. Had they not been able to decipher the journal, I probably would have given them a contact capable of it as a member of the audience for their climactic battle.

...Of course your adventure probably won't go exactly the same way as mine did, but maybe point them in the direction of the Underbridge as a place where they might hide out and evade the law until such time as they can get some concrete proof of their enemies' wrongdoings. If they have any allied NPCs around one of those might suggest it, if not a pair of easily defeated guards and a bit of dialogue could do the trick:

i.e.

Guard 1: "Halt, you four/five/six have gone on rampant murderous ways for long enough, we'd like you to come with us for some time in the courts!

Guard 2 (to guard 1): "Lucky for us that they were just wandering around out here in public, eh? Woulda been hell to track 'em down if they'd hidden in the Underbridge."


My party knew who Ironbriar was and that he was the Justice investigating the "Star Murders", but didn't encounter him until the Sawmill. Of course, they then did the foolish thing of leaving his body there after the looted the place.

A few days later while the party scholarly-types are trying to crack Ironbriar's cypher, the rest of them went shopping and overheard that Ironbriar was the latest "Star Murder" victim (Xanesha and her stalkers having cleaned up the rest of the mill and carving the sihedron rune on his corpse. It didn't get any Greed for Karzoug, but it certainly threw a red herring at the City Watch.) and the Council was debating whether to dedicate the necessary funds to resurrect him, since he was a high-ranking official, killed in the line of duty. Meanwhile, the City Watchmen who worked with Ironbriar where anxious to find his killers and "bring them to justice." Needless to say, the party was very unhappy about this turn of events.

They finally managed to decipher the journal, made a convoluted plan to keep the information safe while imforming the authorities and then went to the Shadow Clock to face Xanesha, who they whipped rather handily because they buffed themselves to the gills on the way up the clock. They emerged afterward to a rather large crowd, who immediately dispersed while pretending to mind their own business.


So, I'll go ahead and elaborate. I do really like the Mayor's speech and I will keep it on the back burner as an option.

At this point, I'm assuming if you are reading you are expecting spoilers. You have been warned.

My players never stop moving.

They entered Magnimar in the afternoon of Day 1. Within a few hours they identified the location of the Foxglove townhouse and went straight there. They killed the faceless stalkers but also summoned the watch. The watch showed up and marched them over to a watch captain. Since faceless stalkers are monsters from the swamp, the captain didn't want to deal with it, and left a report for somebody else to deal with. The PCs did mention that "they solved the star murders in Sandpoint and it was all Foxglove." The captain responded that he would leave a note for the Justice investigating the star murders, but he was thinking, "Sure these upstarts from some podunk town may have done something but that has no bearing on our problem."
The PCs did state they could be contacted at a specific inn.
They then slept.
The next morning they woke up and went straight to the Sawmill, broke in, killed everyone, and looted the place. They released all three ravens and watched them fly to the Shadow Clock. One of the ravens carried a note saying "You are going to fail." One PC animated 2 zombies and then destroyed them.
The party then spent 5 hours shopping the the Bazaar of Sails and sold most of the loot from the Sawmill.
They then all trooped over to the Shadow Clock and destroyed the Scarecrow.
And Cut.

So now we start this friday.

They have not taken the time to translate the ledger, though one of them knows he can.
I think I will have had X send out some spies and find out what happened at the Sawmill. She then has time to float a few rumors that Ironbriar was killed by cultists(PCs) at the Sawmill and they are in the Shadow Clock.
If she defeats them, she has major image to make it look like the tower killed them.
If the PCs win, then they are immediately arrested by the City Watch. Depending on how the altercation goes, they may have a chance to prove their innocence and correctly point the finger at Ironbriar.

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