Wooden swords


Advice

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I'd like for my character to be able to use a wooden sword even though there aren't any specific rules for it, so I was wondering if I could get some help in the regard.

Could I just get a longsword made of wood and it'd just have the same stats as one save for only dealing bludgeoning damage? Or would I have to completely homebrew this?


As far as I know, there are 0 rules for practice weapons short of general improvised weapon rules. Pretty unfortunate.


I think a bludgeoning longsword is a fair item to ask for. It would just be considered wood for all purposes (sundering primarily), but I don't see an issue with it.


If you're going for realism, then it should probably do less damage (maybe 1d4 or 1d6) and have a break chance. If you're not going for realism (which is completely fine), yeah just make it bludgeoning damage.

Alternatively, you could make it out of magic wood and not have to worry about realism. If that's the case, then using the same stats with bludgeoning damage seems fine.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, if my thread on metal clubs is any hint on how this thread will end up going, then expect people to call you out as a cheaty-face, doody-head, munchkin, cheese-rapist.

Sorry about that.

So, your options are an improvised weapon, with flavoring, or be a Druid, and use the Ironwood spell, by current board standards.


Reflavor a Tonfa?

Scarab Sages

I dont know of any rules on it, besides improvised weapons, but I'd call it just a normal sword with wood properties, deals -1 damage, and has the fragile property.

There are rules for obsidian katanas and solid gold swordbreaker daggers. A wooden sword doesn't sound unreasonable.

TL;DR ask your DM

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Now, Jade Regent has a NPC with a Bokken, a wooden practice
Katana.

For this, they treat it as Katana for feats and class abilities, and as a club for damage.


That seems reasonable.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

You could try something based on the spell Transmute Metal to Wood (a cruel and underappreciated gem of a druid spell). It'll never be the most effective option, but it's the perfect starting place.

Grand Lodge

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Use a club, but write "Wooden Sword" or "Bokken" on your character sheet.


I'd probably remove the coup-de-grace bonus too from a wooden katana. Doesn't really make sense with it I'd imagine.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
I'd probably remove the coup-de-grace bonus too from a wooden katana. Doesn't really make sense with it I'd imagine.

By "club for damage", they seem to mean 1d6 x2, Bludgeoning, and no other abilities.


Yeah, sorry, I was still going by my "katana but bludgeoning" idea.

making it a club is probably the best idea anyways. Simple enough.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Odraude wrote:

Yeah, sorry, I was still going by my "katana but bludgeoning" idea.

making it a club is probably the best idea anyways. Simple enough.

Yes.

Treat it as a Katana for feats and class abilities, but all stats are as a Club.

That is how Jade Regent, a Paizo Adventure Path, handled it.

Sczarni

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You're trying to be young link aren't you...

Grand Lodge

You can find the "rules" in the Transmute Metal to Wood spell description.

Quote:
This spell enables you to change all metal objects within its area to wood. Weapons, armor, and other metal objects carried by creatures are affected as well. A magic object made of metal effectively has Spell Resistance equal to 20 + its caster level against this spell. Artifacts cannot be transmuted. Weapons converted from metal to wood take a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. The armor bonus of any armor converted from metal to wood is reduced by 2. Weapons changed by this spell splinter and break on any natural attack roll of 1 or 2, and armor changed by this spell loses an additional point of armor bonus every time it is struck with a natural attack roll of 19 or 20.


As Oncoming Storm suggested.

I'd use club stats and allow the appropriate weapon proficiency, ex longsword, to apply. Call it Bokken or Bokuto or Waister etc. There is absolutely historical context for this kind of weapon in combat. Miyamoto Musashi won over 100 duels to the death, many of them against very famous and accomplished Samurai, with nothing more than a wooden practice sword. His epic battle against Sasaki Kojiro ,in particular, when he carved a boat oar into a wooden sword en route to the dual shows just how effective such a weapon can be in the hands of a true bad ass. Make no mistake though Musashi was a real man and not mythological. Kojiro's masterwork katana "Clothes Rod", named for its unsusual length, was not enough to save him from Musashi's legendary Kenjutsu, proof once again that its not the weapon but the one who weilds it.


Drakkonys wrote:

You can find the "rules" in the Transmute Metal to Wood spell description.

Quote:
This spell enables you to change all metal objects within its area to wood. Weapons, armor, and other metal objects carried by creatures are affected as well. A magic object made of metal effectively has Spell Resistance equal to 20 + its caster level against this spell. Artifacts cannot be transmuted. Weapons converted from metal to wood take a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. The armor bonus of any armor converted from metal to wood is reduced by 2. Weapons changed by this spell splinter and break on any natural attack roll of 1 or 2, and armor changed by this spell loses an additional point of armor bonus every time it is struck with a natural attack roll of 19 or 20.

Well, that's turning a metal sword into an equal amount of wood. Which would be fairly flimsy. Wasters/bokken are much thicker than their metal counterparts, both for durability and to more-closely replicate the weight of the real weapon.

Count me among those who think the "treat it as the actual weapon for the sake of feats, but give it the actual stats of a club for damage/crit/etc" is a very fair and easy way of handling it.


A friend of mine suggested just to get a club and make it one size larger so it would become a two handed weapon and dealing d8


Opuk0 wrote:
A friend of mine suggested just to get a club and make it one size larger so it would become a two handed weapon and dealing d8

The only problem with this is; the Katana is a one and a half sword, like the bastard sword.

Martial characters can use it as a 2 handed weapon already, and 1 handed if they are trained in its use.

Making it a two-handed weapon altogether would be strictly a two-handed weapon.

Dark Archive

I'd guess you'd have to take a club as a one handed weapon or a great club as a two handed weapon. There's no inbetween, unless you can get your GM to make something up.

Silver Crusade

Dark Sun from 2E had rules for alternative weapons like bone and wood, and 4E does as well. Believe it goes something like:

2E: if roll max damage (or crit?), 5% chance the weapon shatters.
4E: If roll a 1, break
4E: Other option, if roll fumble, may take miss or reroll. If reroll and miss, weapon breaks.

This assumes you built your weapon with the intent it be made of wood and not having it morphed, at which point it should be very inferior. The weapons didn't do any different type of damage (e.g. a sword did not do bludgeon). That would more fit into the rules for the -4 penalty for "flat blading."


Opuk0 wrote:

I'd like for my character to be able to use a wooden sword even though there aren't any specific rules for it, so I was wondering if I could get some help in the regard.

Could I just get a longsword made of wood and it'd just have the same stats as one save for only dealing bludgeoning damage? Or would I have to completely homebrew this?

There are rules under special-materials:

Pazio:3pp:

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:

I'd like for my character to be able to use a wooden sword even though there aren't any specific rules for it, so I was wondering if I could get some help in the regard.

Could I just get a longsword made of wood and it'd just have the same stats as one save for only dealing bludgeoning damage? Or would I have to completely homebrew this?

There are rules under special-materials:

Pazio:3pp:

/cevah

Beaten to it, but as Cevah said take the sword you want and have it made out of one of these.

Silver Crusade

The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto, made heavy use of wooden swords. He argued that, in some circumstances, wooden swords were superior to metal ones.

Sure, just treat a wooden sword as a club, stat-wise.


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Take Profession weapon trainer(1) then Rough and Ready trait. Now you can use practice swords as a real weapon and get a +1 to hit too.


Magda Luckbender wrote:
The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto, made heavy use of wooden swords. He argued that, in some circumstances, wooden swords were superior to metal ones.

Do you have a quote to back up the bold statement? I'd really like to see it.


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That’s it. I’m sick of all this “reflavoured club” b!~+~++$ that’s going on in the d20 system right now. Bokken deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I’m talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Bokken in Japa-


A club is a FREE, simple weapon that does a respectable 1d6 damage. That can also be thrown.

If your rules for a wooden sword end up being worse (attack penalties, fragile quality, other crap people have suggested) than what a freaking club would be, you 'dun screwed up.

I'd say it would be identical to the sword it's mimicking (so 1d8 for a wooden version of a longsword), except bludgeoning and crit range changes to 20/x2. That's enough of a nerf.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Why do the weeaboo japanophiles need to ruin everything asain themed?

Those, and the unbeknownst onto themselves, white-supremacist europhiles.

My damn bokken hits as hard as my shillelagh.

Pathfinder stats them both like a club, and that works for me.


Magda Luckbender wrote:
The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto

Who did he beat to win this title? ;-)

Grand Lodge

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PD wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:
The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto
Who did he beat to win this title? ;-)

The 60 men he dueled in his lifetime.


I'd knock wooden weapons down a size damage dice


Oncoming_Storm wrote:
PD wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:
The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto
Who did he beat to win this title? ;-)
The 60 men he dueled in his lifetime.

Know of any Vikings who duelled 70 men? Gladiators who fought 80 men? Aztec chieftains who slew 100 men? Amazing what publicity you can get just because you write a book...

Grand Lodge

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PD wrote:
Oncoming_Storm wrote:
PD wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:
The greatest swordsman in Earth history, Musashi Miyamoto
Who did he beat to win this title? ;-)
The 60 men he dueled in his lifetime.
Know of any Vikings who duelled 70 men? Gladiators who fought 80 men? Aztec chieftains who slew 100 men? Amazing what publicity you can get just because you write a book...

They should have written some books then.


Oncoming_Storm wrote:


They should have written some books then.

*GRIN*


Touc wrote:

Dark Sun from 2E had rules for alternative weapons like bone and wood, and 4E does as well. Believe it goes something like:

2E: if roll max damage (or crit?), 5% chance the weapon shatters.
4E: If roll a 1, break
4E: Other option, if roll fumble, may take miss or reroll. If reroll and miss, weapon breaks.

This assumes you built your weapon with the intent it be made of wood and not having it morphed, at which point it should be very inferior. The weapons didn't do any different type of damage (e.g. a sword did not do bludgeon). That would more fit into the rules for the -4 penalty for "flat blading."

Dark Sun from 2E had an environment that hardly had any metal in it. The Dark Sun campaign had to use alternate materials to construct weapons and armor. So leather and chittin plates (insect carapace) were used instead. And bone, obsidian and wooden weapons were used instead. Swords were scarce and clubs, maces and spears more common.


I'd say a wooden longsword would just go down a die in damage. 1d6, 19-20/x2 Slashing.

Similarly, a metal club would go up one damage die.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:

I'd say a wooden longsword would just go down a die in damage. 1d6, 19-20/x2 Slashing.

Similarly, a metal club would go up one damage die.

Except that you can't keep an edge on a wooden blade. The damage would be bludgeoning, not slashing (splinters notwithstanding.)

However you stat up the original, just make sure that if you continue through enough levels using only your wooden sword, that the GM eventually rewards you with this.


How would people here on the boards price a bokken or other wooden-version of a sword? As a club, 0 GP? Or a higher price since at least some craftsmanship was put into it? Maybe half price of original weapon?


Protoman wrote:
How would people here on the boards price a bokken or other wooden-version of a sword? As a club, 0 GP? Or a higher price since at least some craftsmanship was put into it? Maybe half price of original weapon?

If it's going to have the same stats as the club, it should have the same price as the club. If I'm getting a club for 20g 25g, it'd better be better than your run-of-the-mill club. Otherwise, you really are better off just using a club.


Here's a thought. Is a bokken simply a masterwork club?


Opuk0 wrote:
A friend of mine suggested just to get a club and make it one size larger so it would become a two handed weapon and dealing d8

the weight of a wooden sword would be much less than a club, so less damage would be much more appropriate than more damage. It would be more like a light club, Id say d4 honestly. It would be easy to knock someone out with a baseball bat but pretty hard with a practice sword.

Scarab Sages

PD wrote:

Here's a thought. Is a bokken simply a masterwork club?

Pretty much, although it's not weighted for throwing. Using katana feats and club stats is just fine. A club is still a good weapon, and is better than a katana when fighting anything with DR/Bludgeoning.

Otherwise, a Druid or Wood Oracle with Ironwood can make a very effective wooden katana.

Scarab Sages

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jimibones83 wrote:
Opuk0 wrote:
A friend of mine suggested just to get a club and make it one size larger so it would become a two handed weapon and dealing d8
the weight of a wooden sword would be much less than a club, so less damage would be much more appropriate than more damage. It would be more like a light club, Id say d4 honestly. It would be easy to knock someone out with a baseball bat but pretty hard with a practice sword.

You've obviously never used a good bokken or waster. A bokken or waster is made of dense hardwood and is more than capable of breaking bones.

It's a hell of a lot more dangerous than SCA rattan swords and I know many people who have had arms broken from a SCA sword hit while wearing plate armor.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
It's a hell of a lot more dangerous than SCA rattan swords and I know many people who have had arms broken from a SCA sword hit while wearing plate armor.

It sounds like jimibones83 confused bokken and shinnai. Bokken is a hardwood practice sword that is quite a lethal weapon. Shinai is a rattan practice sword engineered to minimize damage on a hit.

Regarding Musashi, interested readers should check out his history. In addition to the book he wrote, there are also numerous historical accounts of his activities. It's not like he made stuff up. Musashi participated in (and won) 60 duels. He also participated in many less orderly fights and battles, including surviving being on the losing side of the battle of Sekigahara. No one knows how many foes Musashi slew in battle - he even lost track. The most noteworthy thing about this famous swordsman is probably that he died of old age.

The Samurai Trilogy are three Masterwork films about the [highly dramatized and not historically accurate] life of Miyamoto Musashi. My favorite is Part II, Duel at Ichijoji Temple [youtube]. In it, Musashi accepts an honorable challenge that is actually an ambush. 80 Samurai, some with guns and bows, attack him many-on-one. Musashi slays many, runs away, and survives without serious wounds. This incident actually happened, as it was recorded by numerous people, and marked with fall of a great sword school.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As I pointed out, Pathfinder has already decided, by evidence of the item introduced in Jade Regent, how they handle the Bokken.

Seems fine to me.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:

I'd say a wooden longsword would just go down a die in damage. 1d6, 19-20/x2 Slashing.

Similarly, a metal club would go up one damage die.

Isn't a metal club a mace?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Liam Warner wrote:
KahnyaGnorc wrote:

I'd say a wooden longsword would just go down a die in damage. 1d6, 19-20/x2 Slashing.

Similarly, a metal club would go up one damage die.

Isn't a metal club a mace?

No.

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