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I'm trying to build a kind of dinowrangling cowboy character for PFS, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the Beast Rider archetype and I would like to see the input of the community on how the rules ought to be interpreted.
This is the entry in question:
At 1st level, a beast rider forms a bond
with a strong, loyal companion that permits him to ride
it as a mount. This mount functions as a druid’s animal
companion, using the beast rider’s level as his effective
druid level. The animal chosen as a mount must be large
enough to carry the beast rider (Medium or Large for a
Small character; Large or Huge for a Medium character).
[...]
Medium beast riders can choose a camel or horse mount
at 1st level. At 4th level, a Medium beast rider can also
choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium,
aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon,
hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, snapping
turtle (giant), tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus as
his mount.
[...]
Abeast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of
bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that
has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with
a swim speed in certain environments).
From http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9qqn
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
Discrepancy #1: The rules for Beast Rider indicate that a character cannot choose a mount which he cannot ride, then lists animal companions he is able to choose at a level where they cannot be ridden. (All)
Does this mean that the mount I can choose at 4th level is rideable despite being medium size? Or that it gets a size increase? Or that the mount I gain is not rideable until I gain level 7? Does this mean that I can choose a mount from the druid's companion list if I multiclass, provided that it is one size category larger?Discrepancy #2: The rules for Beast Rider indicate that a character cannot choose a mount without four legs, after listing animal companions he is able to choose which do not have four legs. (Tyrannosaurus, Allosaurus, Deinochynus, Velociraptor)
Does this mean that I have to take the above examples as an exception to that rule or do I have to presume that claws count as legs? Does this mean that I can choose a mount from the druid's companion list if I multiclass, provided it has four legs (or limbs)?
Discrepancy #3: The FAQ states that an animal companion must match the companion lists of both classes in order to stack companion levels. Beast Riders expand their animal companion lists at level intervals.
Does this mean that a druid 1/beast rider 3 must contend with a 1st level Ankylosaurus? Or does this mean that a druid 1/beast rider 3 may stack effective druid levels when beast riders get the animal companion eventually at another time? Or does the description strictly apply to the vanilla cavalier companion list (i.e. camels, ponies and horses).
Any kind of answers would be appreciated.
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1) I assume that the Medium Beast rider is supposed to specify some animals becoming large / legal at 4th level and some at 7th but forgot to separate them out. Medium cavaliers should gain access to these mounts at the level they become large.
2) I assume they are specific exceptions and not all bipedal mounts with claws are allowed.
3) RAW, They stack at the point where the mount is added to your cavalier list. A Druid 1 / cavalier 3 must treat their Ankylosaurus as a druid companion (1st level) and have a second cavalier mount (3rd level companion). On becoming a druid 1 / cavalier 4, the Ankylosaurus is added to the cavalier's list, so the character may dismiss their prior mount and apply the stacked animal companion benefit to their ankylosaurus. Personally, I would allow them to stack at the point where the "stacked" level is high enough to make the mount riding size since the intent of the rule is to make sure a cavalier can ride their mount.
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Thank you for your swift answer. Sadly, it is not possible for Pathfinder Society games to have multiple animal companions or indeed any kind of combat animals. (So, no familiars AND companions AND purchased mounts).
It seems therefore that a druid would be encouraged to use their animal companions for the purpose of mounted combat, as they are not allowed to purchase a second warmount in addition to their current one.
Summoning is a different matter, as far as I know, as otherwise Summon Nature's Ally spells would be useless for druids with animal companions. Technically, though, the rules would disallow it.
Thank you again for your response, Weirdo.
For now, I'll hold out hope that the interpretation that Cavaliers and Druids share animal companion lists from first level, even if Cavaliers only gain access to them at level 4 (such as boars for small character at all or beast rider mounts).
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Not technically correct.
You can have as many pets as you want in PFS (unless they interfere with game.) Only one of your pets can engage in combat. (So you would have a Cav3 mount, and your Druid1 whatever would just trundle along behind you all staying safe with everyone else's porter/squire/scholar vanities.
Alternately you have a cav3dru1 lvl4 camel, and at level 5 swap it out for a whatever.
(For the record, I disagree with Wierdo, I believe that the druid boosts your effective total level to 4, which means that the lvl 4 clause of the cavalier clause unlocks. But I haven't done a close enough read to really defend my position, and I don't have time for it now.)
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(For the record, I disagree with Wierdo, I believe that the druid boosts your effective total level to 4, which means that the lvl 4 clause of the cavalier clause unlocks. But I haven't done a close enough read to really defend my position, and I don't have time for it now.)
I'd like to be wrong about that since my quick reading of RAW seemed dumb and is not what I would use at my table. The reasoning for stacking when combined level allows a large mount would be:
1) With reference to wands, something being "on your list" doesn't require that you be of a high enough level to use/select that option.
2) Since the ankylosaurus is on the cavalier's list in this sense, a druid 1 / cavalier 3 can select an ankylosaurus as their mount and stack druid+cavalier levels to determine its level.
3) However, since a 4th level equivalent ankylosaurus is medium, not large enough to serve as a mount for a medium-sized cavalier, it becomes invalid after stacking and you must select a new mount. (This prevents a cavalier/druid from selecting a mount on their list that they can't ride.) If the combined druid level equivalent is 7+, the ankylosaurus is large and remains a legal mount.
However, I don't think this interpretation is clearly more accurate than the other one, and for PFS I think it would be safer to select the less favourable interpretation.