Multiclassing Archetype Dip

[Rub-Eta]

I've been looking making a Dervish Dance Bard (not the archetype, I mean using the feat with the Bard).

The Dervish of Dawn archetype grants the Dervish Dance feat but also replaces Bardic Knowledge, which I do want as well.

My question is: Can I take 1 level in the Dervish of Dawn archetype (to gain the Dervish Dance feat) and also have levels in a regular Bard which would grant me Bardic Knowledge like normal? (Dipping one level in Dervish of Dawn would save me 3 feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar) and Dervish Dance).

Ex: (order doesn't really matter)
1st level - Bard (lvl 1)
2nd level - Dervish of Dawn (lvl 1)
3rd level - Bard (lvl 2)
4th level - Bard (lvl 3)

I'm asking this since I'm thinking that there may be restrictions on how you are allowed to multiclass within the same class. Are you limited to only one type of each class or is "archetype dipping" just like multiclassing between any other classes?

Extra question: will this also grant double set of cantrips, level 1 spells known and spells per day?
I guess I'd have to use them in their correct spells per day allotment?
Ex: From first level in Dervish of Dawn, lets say I pick the Alarm spell. Will I only be able to cast it once a day since I only have one spell per day from Dervish of Dawn? Or can I cast it with my other spells per day from regular Bard as well?
(I know the latter isn't the case for the normal "cross-class-multiclassing", ex: Bard and Sorcerer spells don't stack).

[Raisse]

No, you cannot multiclass in a normal class and an archetype of the same class. Applying an archetype swaps out the appropriate abilities but you are still the normal class.

You can no more multiclass Bard with Dawnflower Dervish Bard than you could take the first level of Fighter over and over for +2 Fort save and 1 combat feat at every level.

[Rub-Eta]

Good point, thank you.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

What you could do is multiclass normal bard and fighter. Take Weapon finesse at first level (bard), fighter at second level and take dervish dance as your bonus feat.

[Zahmahkibo]

You'll have to wait until at least 3rd level to do that, since Dervish Dance requires 2 ranks in Perform (dance) and fighters don't bypass preqs.

[Kodger]

There's nothing to stop a fighter from taking a level of perform.

[mswbear]

Zahmahkibo wrote:

You'll have to wait until at least 3rd level to do that, since Dervish Dance requires 2 ranks in Perform (dance) and fighters don't bypass preqs.

you can still put a rank into perform (dance) as a fighter. Class skills offer you the +3 bump but that doesn't mean you can't dump points into skills that aren't class skills. Plus they will get the +3 bump from their Bard class

[fretgod99]

mswbear wrote:

Zahmahkibo wrote:

You'll have to wait until at least 3rd level to do that, since Dervish Dance requires 2 ranks in Perform (dance) and fighters don't bypass preqs.

you can still put a rank into perform (dance) as a fighter. Class skills offer you the +3 bump but that doesn't mean you can't dump points into skills that aren't class skills. Plus they will get the +3 bump from their Bard class

I'm guessing he probably got it mixed up with PRC requirements. You can't use the first level of a PRC to satisfy skill point or feat requirements because you don't apply skill points or select feats until after you've taken the level.

However, skill points and feats are selected on the same step of advancement and you can choose them in whichever order you like. So you can take a level in Fighter at second level and put a second rank in Perform before selecting your feat, meaning you could qualify for Dervish Dance at second level.