What happens to familiars when their master dies?

[Rycaut]

I'm running Reign of Winter - avoiding spoilers but there are a bunch of witches in this adventure path - and my players and I have been curious about what happens with familiars upon the death of their master?

The rules for Witch's familiars discuss that the familiar retains the knowledge of spells for 24 hours (during which time the familiar can be bribed/coerced to teach some of those spells to another familiar) but there is nothing that discusses what happens after that 24hr period.

Does the familiar remain an intelligent magical beast?

Does it revert to being a non-magical, regular animal (or vermin), losing intelligence and other skills?

If is doesn't revert to being an animal what are the familiar's stats upon the death of a master? (since stats like HP, BAB and Skills known depend upon that connection to a master - as well as the master's level dependent abilities such as "speak to animals" etc.

A further and related question - could a familiar be transferred to another person? (especially upon the death of a master) - in that case what, if any, memories (and abilities) does that familiar retain? (if a witch to another witch what about spells known?) if a witch to a wizard what changes between a witch's familiar and a wizard's familiar?

(there are other classes besides witch's and wizards that can obtain a familiar - would any of them cause further changes?)

Whether this is RAW or not as a DM in my Reign of Winter campaign I'll probably allow a character to take as her familiar the familiar of a witch they have killed (she's just leveled and multi-classed into wizard). I may further rule that as a magical beast, not a regular animal, when she does take on the familiar she and the familiar can discuss what form he wants to take now - it may not be the form he currently has). Any further changes will cost the ritual costs for a new familiar (or a ritual to gain a new familiar if he should die in the future).

[Mojorat]

By the raw when a of dies all connection to the familiar (or ac) dissappears. However in genetal I suspect most games hand wave this.

[Rycaut]

According the Witch's Familiar section however the familiar does retain some knowledge for 24hrs after the master's death - hence my question.

Quote:

Familiar Teaching Familiar: A witch’s familiar can learn spells from another witch’s familiar. To accomplish this, the familiars must spend one hour per level of the spell being taught in communion with one another. At the end of this time, the witch whose familiar is learning a spell must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the familiar has learned the spell and the witch may utilize it the next time she prepares spells. If the check fails, the familiar has failed to learn the spell and cannot try to learn that spell again until the witch has gained another rank in Spellcraft. Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service. If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion.

[Mojorat]

I think a good rule is the famiar retains as much as you want it to for story. However the wizard wont get any mechanical benefit from the witches familiar like the spells.

[kikidmonkey]

it explodes and becomes a balor

[Desidero]

I think it's kind of cool to think of familiars carefully choosing their last lucid thoughts, counting down the hours before they are again reduced to a mere beast.

[Nefreet]

If it's a Homunculus, it goes insane.

[Diego Rossi]

RAW both familiars and animal companion revert to the normal animal form. How fast is an important question that was never answered AFAIK.
And that is problematic.

My AC/Familiar is heavily wounded but alive. I die. What happen? He revert immediately to its normal animal form, with the consequent reduction in hp and dies? It stay enhanced for some time? How long?

My party don't have a caster capable to cast raise dead (or I was killed by a death effect, or we don't have the needed diamond and so on) and they need to reach the nearest city to raise me. The trek will take a week.
What happen to the AC/Familiar?

If it is a familiar it revert to be a normal animal and when I am raised raised I need to re-bond it?
If I am a witch and more than 24 hours have elapsed, it will have forget all the spell it has learned and I will have a familiar with the basic number of spells?

[Rycaut]

I'm leaning towards allowing familiars to transform (via a ritual) into another form and retain their memories (but gain only the abilities of their new master if they have one) if they don't then I'm not sure how I will rule them - but I don't think I will just have familiars lose their intelligence and memories and revert to being normal beasts. In fact I may introduce one or more encounters over the course of the AP with former familiars... if the party is smart they may get some help...

[threemilechild]

Desidero wrote:

I think it's kind of cool to think of familiars carefully choosing their last lucid thoughts, counting down the hours before they are again reduced to a mere beast.

This is one reason I kind of dislike Improved Familiar even though I love familiars in general and it's a great feat; I have a hard time understanding how a good-aligned (or even neutral, really) person would abandon a sentient being they have such a close link with to losing its sentience.

It makes for good story, though. Maybe the badly-treated familiar of a villainous witch might be relieved to go back to being an animal, or maybe it wants to find a new witch while it can -- maybe someone younger and more impressionable. Or someone who can cast Awaken... lots of options.

[Loren Peterson]

I used this as an idea for a dungeon once. It was an ancient underground library/magical workshop that was discovered by a witch and he familiar. When the witch was killed by the traps inside the severing of that magical connection drove the familiar mad and over time the remnants of the connection manifested as sorcerer levels and it established itself as the ruler of this domain, constantly talking to the bones of its master. In short, whatever the hell you want happens. There is no rules for it per say but do what feels fun or cool for the story and screw the rules, you are the GM.

[chopswil]

how about if the master goes the lich route?

[Mike Franke]

Free will baby! At least that is how I play it. I see no reason for the animal to revert to normal even though I know that is the RAW. There are so many possibilities for stories based on abandoned familiars or familiars that survive their masters.

I can just imagine a familiar as a BBEG plotting to bring back his evil master! Ignore that toad at your peril!

[threemilechild]

Mike Franke wrote:

Ignore that toad at your peril!

Around the community where I live, toad familiars have really gotten a raw deal. The first 3E toad familiar "Churra" was killed by the DM I think twice at least (oh no, it gives you +3 hps!). Batrachio the toad was later eaten by the owl that his master was upgrading to, in a game run by the player of the first toad's PC. That player is now playing a summoner whose eidolon is a toad called Churra -- he's big and nasty and ready to avenge the spirit of all the murdered toad familiars!

[Elbedor]

I think familiars do one of two things:

Either they celebrate the death of their task master and then join a rebellious group that seeks to undermine the power of Masters everywhere; meeting twice a month in secret places with passwords and all that to keep out spies and invoking strict regulations upon their members in order to keep their movements under the radar of local authorities.

Or they launch into a pathetic almost compulsive state, wondering incessantly if they could have done anything different, usually blaming themselves for their beloved master's death, suffering survivor's guilt, and vowing never to let it happen again. This might take them down the path of seeking out another Master in order to prove to themselves that they can do it right this time. But there is always the possibility that a repeat failure sends them into a downward spiral of alcohol abuse, depression, addiction to painkillers, and unhealthy fascination with self cutting and symbols of death.

Or it's possible they just revert back to being a stupid animal and wander off.

Crap shoot as far as I know.

[Set]

Mojorat wrote:

I think a good rule is the famiar retains as much as you want it to for story. However the wizard wont get any mechanical benefit from the witches familiar like the spells.

Whatever best suits the story the GM wants to tell, and, ideally, it's not the same for every familiar.

Some might die of shock and loss, 'sharing' the death of their master.

Some might turn into normal animals instantly.

Some might retain familiar abilities for a few hours, or days, or *ever*, and those traits might fade, or drop to a baseline (equivalent of having a 1st level master, even if their previous master was 15th level or so), or remain at full level.

Some might be desperate to find a new master, some might be desperate to *not* get hooked up to a master, and trying to find alternate means to maintain their magical powers / traits, such as by hunting down lesser wizards and attempting to capture or kill them to artificially maintain their fading powers.

[Tomos]

The Imp entry in the Bestiary has flavor text related to this issue.

Bestiary wrote:

Unlike most devils, imps often find themselves free and alone on the Material Plane, particularly after they've been summoned to serve as familiars and their masters have perished (often indirectly due to the machinations of the imp itself). With no way to return home, these imps, freed of their bonds to arcane masters, can become dangerous pests or even leaders of small tribes of savage humanoids like goblins or kobolds.

Not exactly the same as a Witch Familiar, but it may be useful to the OP.

[Zotpox]

Hmmmm
Is there a net book on familiars?
If not I hope a net book is created for this.