Do Robes of Arcane Heritage work if you are not a sorcerer but have the eldrich heritage feat?


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I'm playing a fighter with the orc blood line with the mythic eldrich heritage.
Would wearing it affect him at all sence he is not a sorcerer at all?


The item description indicates that the function happens when "a sorcerer dons" the robe. It further goes on to state that she treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher, not her effective bloodline level. Given these two facts, I would have to say no, it would not work for a non-sorcerer's feat.

The Exchange

Yes, you have a sorcerer level, which the robe raises. "When a sorcerer dons..." just goes on to talk about stitching. The next sentence (which dishes out the goods) switches from "a sorcerer" to "the wearer".

Dark Archive

Eldritch Heritage does say you treat your sorcerer level as your character level -2. I'd say yes.


Robe of arcane heritage says.
When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.

Eldrich heritage says.
For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

ELDRITCH HERITAGE (MYTHIC) says
Benefit: You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage as if your sorcerer level were your character level – 2. For that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power, use your full character level to determine its effect; for all other bloodline powers, treat your sorcerer level as your character level – 2.

So no fancy restiching for me but for the purpose of my blood line powers i would be character level +2?
Wouldn't i also gain access to blood line powers two levels sooner than a sorcerer would as long as i wear the robe?


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fel_horfrost wrote:

Robe of arcane heritage says.

When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.

Eldrich heritage says.
For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

ELDRITCH HERITAGE (MYTHIC) says
Benefit: You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage as if your sorcerer level were your character level – 2. For that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power, use your full character level to determine its effect; for all other bloodline powers, treat your sorcerer level as your character level – 2.

So no fancy restiching for me but for the purpose of my blood line powers i would be character level +2?
Wouldn't i also gain access to blood line powers two levels sooner than a sorcerer would as long as i wear the robe?

If you're going to read it THAT closely, I'd argue that per the way the rules are written, the feat does not actually give you any sorcerer levels; it merely allows you to treat a number as your sorcerer for the specific purpose of determining the strength of the relevant power. It is a "pseudo-level" if you will, rather than an actual sorcerer level, and thus is not affected by the robe.

The Exchange

But where does the robe mention "actual" sorcerer level? It mentions "her sorcerer level", just like the feats mention "your sorcerer level".

"Wouldn't i also gain access to blood line powers two levels sooner than a sorcerer would as long as i wear the robe?" Yes, unless a sorcerer also had one.

Dark Archive

Yes, because they both mention your sorcerer level. Your first level bloodline power would be level+4, and the others would be level+2.

You gave up 2 feats, a mythic feat, your body slot and a 16000 gp item. I'd say you'd be able to use it.


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I totally support FiddlersGreen here.

The Heritage Feat allows a non sorcerer to use a bloodline power. Since that power is based on sorcerer level to determine its effect, the feat says that you treat your sorcerer level equal to character level -2. It doens't give you sorcerer level in any way....

Now, the robe starts by saying: " when a sorcerer....", the fighter donning a robe is not a sorcerer, and therefore cannot benefit from it...the fact that they both mention sorcerer level does not establish per say a direct link between the two of them... The first condition of the Robe is whether or not you have a actual class level as a sorcerer.


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Cuttler wrote:


I totally support FiddlersGreen here.

The Heritage Feat allows a non sorcerer to use a bloodline power. Since that power is based on sorcerer level to determine its effect, the feat says that you treat your sorcerer level equal to character level -2. It doens't give you sorcerer level in any way....

Now, the robe starts by saying: " when a sorcerer....", the fighter donning a robe is not a sorcerer, and therefore cannot benefit from it...the fact that they both mention sorcerer level does not establish per say a direct link between the two of them... The first condition of the Robe is whether or not you have a actual class level as a sorcerer.

^This.


Then i guess the real question is does eldrich heritage give you a real sorcerer level for the purpose of the feet and would the robes of arcane heritage acknowledge this as a sorcerer level for that bloodline?


Not that it is official by any stretch, but it works in herolab :-/


RAW, I'm guessing no. But it's reasonable to assume it works, and that's how I'd rule it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigDTBone wrote:
Not that it is official by any stretch, but it works in herolab :-/

Using herolab to justify your argument is a sign that you've run out of any other support to do so.


Well i was asking for raw but all opinions are welcome.
I just wanted to see if it was worth 90% of my toons gold.
But the feat choices are set in stone


fel_horfrost wrote:
Then i guess the real question is does eldrich heritage give you a real sorcerer level for the purpose of the feet and would the robes of arcane heritage acknowledge this as a sorcerer level for that bloodline?

This goes back to what I was referring to when I mentioned effective bloodline level.

"You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage as if your sorcerer level were your character level – 2."

The use of 'as if' seems (to me) to indicate that it is not an actual level for purposes of anything other than determining the bloodline power gained from the feat alone. Were this not true, it would (again, to me) read:

"You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage with a sorcerer level equal to your character level - 2."

That said however, I do believe its reasonable and agree with Lemmy about that part. But by RAW I stand by my original assertion.


Eldritch heritage has to refer to sorcerer levels in order to tell you what powers you have. It doesn't make you a sorcerer.

As far as the robes go ask your em if you need levels in the sorcerer class to use the robe. If yes your char can't use them if no he can.

For the record I think the robes are sorcerer only and a feat doesn't make you a sorcerer. But this has all been argued before as the ops game is mythic just ask the dm to decide.


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LazarX wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Not that it is official by any stretch, but it works in herolab :-/
Using herolab to justify your argument is a sign that you've run out of any other support to do so.

Seeing as I offered no previous opinion, I'm really not sure what the point of that post was.


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BigDTBone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Not that it is official by any stretch, but it works in herolab :-/
Using herolab to justify your argument is a sign that you've run out of any other support to do so.
Seeing as I offered no previous opinion, I'm really not sure what the point of that post was.

Don't feed the trolls. You'll notice he didn't offer an opinion or support either.

Anyways, RAW, it is very unclear. Both the item and feat refer to your sorcerer level, and people can argue endlessly about how they interact.

RAI, though, they should work together. They both obviously refer to the character's effective sorcerer level for bloodline purposes: Eldritch heritage gives you an effective sorcerer level and RotAH increases it. Nitpicks over precise wording aside, they are clearly referring to the same thing..


I thank you all for your time and opinions and would like to hear more peoples opinions on this subject maybe even a developers opinion lol


I do realise that the item came out before the feat so it would stand to reason that the item was intended as a sorcerer only item.
I just wish they would have made a ruling on it when they released the feat.


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This has been asked several times and the opinions come up decidedly mixed. For my money, eldritch heritage gives you an effective sorcerer level, and the robes raise that level. Personally, I don't think there's much ambiguity, it's pretty straightforward.

There are many spells, for instance, that in their description say "when this spell is cast, the [wizard/cleric/whatever] creates a glowing ball of..." whatever. Are we to interpret that other classes that get the spell on their list don't get to benefit because it's restricted to one class by the description?


They usually don't make rulings unless there is errata or a percieved problem that interacts with core game mechanics. Prior to pfs being a big deal their stance was always the dm is lord of his domain.

Really though your dm can make a decision in under a second. I'm assuming at this point you did and are looking for rules to support tour view? Unfortunately there is no clear ruling on the matter.

As I said in my last post it comes down to a single yes or no question. Do you need to be a sorcerer to use the robe. The robe itself says two things that it works when sorcerers wear the robes and it adds levels to sorcerer bloodline stuff. Most people arguing this seem to ignore the when a sorceress wears this item part.


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Robe of arcane heritage wrote:
The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Eldrich heritage says wrote:
For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2

These refer to exactly the same this. How is this even a debate?

Yes. The Robe boosts your sorc level for the purpose of using that power.

It even says "your sorcerer level". Not, "as if you had pretend sorc levels".

The wording of the robe and the feat directly sync.


FiddlersGreen wrote:
If you're going to read it THAT closely, I'd argue that per the way the rules are written, the feat does not actually give you any sorcerer levels; it merely allows you to treat a number as your sorcerer for the specific purpose of determining the strength of the relevant power. It is a "pseudo-level" if you will, rather than an actual sorcerer level, and thus is not affected by the robe.

You reversed it.

This part: "it merely allows you to treat a number as your sorcerer for the specific purpose of determining the strength of the relevant power"

You clearly, and hopefully not intentionally, reversed it. It is easy to miss... but flips the meaning.

I will correct it for you, and tell me if you see the difference.

it allows you to treat your sorcerer level as a number for the specific purpose of determining the strength of the relevant power

The sorcerer levels are "your sorcerer levels", and you treat these levels of yours as a number equal to your character level -2.

The sorcerer levels are yours.


Mojorat wrote:

They usually don't make rulings unless there is errata or a percieved problem that interacts with core game mechanics. Prior to pfs being a big deal their stance was always the dm is lord of his domain.

Really though your dm can make a decision in under a second. I'm assuming at this point you did and are looking for rules to support tour view? Unfortunately there is no clear ruling on the matter.

As I said in my last post it comes down to a single yes or no question. Do you need to be a sorcerer to use the robe. The robe itself says two things that it works when sorcerers wear the robes and it adds levels to sorcerer bloodline stuff. Most people arguing this seem to ignore the when a sorceress wears this item part.

To be honest i haven't asked yet.

I'm just gathering information to present to my gamemaster.
I'll show all the views presented here and let him make his own judgement.


Only if they're well manicured.


Remy. First of all, you forgot that the robe specifically refers to when a sorcerer dons the item

So basically, it comes down to whether the heritage feat gives you sorcerer level.

I dont' think so. as mentionned before, you never got sorcerer level.

The first thing that heritage feat does is to give you the power of a bloodline power. However, since you are not a sorcerer, you need a way to avaluate the effect of the power as the power is baed on a sorcerer level.Thus, in that regard, the feat: " treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer."

The way that you rephrased Fiddlersgreen sentence is to your advantage.

actually, to determine the effect of the feat, you need to determine a number that is equvalent to a sorcerer level in order to use the feat and that number is your character level (not sorcerer level) -2. Even if you are a real sorcerer, the effective level is based on your character level -2. So basically a sorcerer 3/cleric 5 would use the feat as a effective level 6 (even if he is only a 3rd level sorcerer)

Please do not confuse RAW (rules as written) with RAW (Rules as wanted)
;-)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
the David wrote:
Eldritch Heritage does say you treat your sorcerer level as your character level -2. I'd say yes.

Only for purposes of the power the feat gives you. You're still not a sorcerer in any way.


fel_horfrost wrote:

I'm playing a fighter with the orc blood line with the mythic eldrich heritage.

Would wearing it affect him at all sence he is not a sorcerer at all?

A) He's not a sorcerer (no class levels)

B) Eldritch Heritage - He will gain the first-level bloodline power of a selected bloodline.

C) Eldritch Heritage (mythic) - He will gain all the bloodline powers of the previously selected bloodline.

D) He's still not a sorcerer (no class levels).

E) He puts on a Robe of Arcane Heritage - As written, It works for sorcerers, with no mention of non-sorcerers who have access to bloodline powers. It was published after the Eldricth Heritage feat.

F) He's still not a sorcerer (no class levels).

G) As a DM, I would allow the item to function, (by Rule Zero, not by RAW) but I would not allow a character who only had access to bloodline powers through the Eldritch Heritage feat chain to craft this item. Because...

H) He's still not a sorcerer (no class levels).


Cuttler wrote:

Remy. First of all, you forgot that the robe specifically refers to when a sorcerer dons the item

So basically, it comes down to whether the heritage feat gives you sorcerer level.

I dont' think so. as mentionned before, you never got sorcerer level.

The first thing that heritage feat does is to give you the power of a bloodline power. However, since you are not a sorcerer, you need a way to avaluate the effect of the power as the power is baed on a sorcerer level.Thus, in that regard, the feat: " treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer."

The way that you rephrased Fiddlersgreen sentence is to your advantage.

actually, to determine the effect of the feat, you need to determine a number that is equvalent to a sorcerer level in order to use the feat and that number is your character level (not sorcerer level) -2. Even if you are a real sorcerer, the effective level is based on your character level -2. So basically a sorcerer 3/cleric 5 would use the feat as a effective level 6 (even if he is only a 3rd level sorcerer)

Please do not confuse RAW (rules as written) with RAW (Rules as wanted)
;-)

I re-bolded the part you are ignoring.

I rephrased Fiddlersgreen's rephrased sentence back into the original meaning. He rephrased it, and I corrected him. Neither his nor my wording is of any advantage to me, I have nothing to gain here.

The last quip at the end isn't necessary either. I'm arguing about the RAW only.

The feat gives you sorcerer levels. These levels are treated as your character level -2. These levels are only for the purpose of the effect of the bloodline power.

The robe modifies your sorcerer level. It increases it by 4. This increase is only for the purpose of the effects of bloodline powers (and which you can use).

The feat and the robe are directly compatible.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
aboniks wrote:
E) He puts on a Robe of Arcane Heritage - As written, It works for sorcerers, with no mention of non-sorcerers who have access to bloodline powers. It was published after the Eldricth Heritage feat.

Items and feats are built on a basis of what they INCLUDE, not what they exclude. Since there is direct mention of sorcerers, it supports them. Since there is no mention of characters who use the Eldritch Heritage feats, they're left out in the cold.


LazarX wrote:
aboniks wrote:
E) He puts on a Robe of Arcane Heritage - As written, It works for sorcerers, with no mention of non-sorcerers who have access to bloodline powers. It was published after the Eldricth Heritage feat.
Items and feats are built on a basis of what they INCLUDE, not what they exclude. Since there is direct mention of sorcerers, it supports them. Since there is no mention of characters who use the Eldritch Heritage feats, they're left out in the cold.

With regard to their bloodline powers, people who take Eldritch Heritage are sorcerers. They even have sorcerer levels.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Remy Balster wrote:
LazarX wrote:
aboniks wrote:
E) He puts on a Robe of Arcane Heritage - As written, It works for sorcerers, with no mention of non-sorcerers who have access to bloodline powers. It was published after the Eldricth Heritage feat.
Items and feats are built on a basis of what they INCLUDE, not what they exclude. Since there is direct mention of sorcerers, it supports them. Since there is no mention of characters who use the Eldritch Heritage feats, they're left out in the cold.
With regard to their bloodline powers, people who take Eldritch Heritage are sorcerers. They even have sorcerer levels.

They are NOT sorcerers they are TREATED as being sorcerers for the purpose of the powers they have. But unless they have a class level of sorcerer tucked up in their stat block somewhere, they are NOT sorcerers.

That's my home table ruling and that WOULD be my ruling if it came up in PFS. But I rarely see sorcerers or wizards on PFS tables, so it' not a big issue. And there are too many contenders for that robe slot that I've yet to see one of those there as well.

The really big question is ... why bother? You're not going to get access to additional powers by cheesing one of these robes. And boosting your caster level for a mere bloodline power isn't worth the trouble.


Do you know what the words "treated as" mean? Serious question. Look LazarX, I know you don't like the rule, but that is no excuse for posting misinformation. RAW this clearly works for the reasons Remy Balster posted above. You don't like it fine, then houserule it.


LazarX wrote:
aboniks wrote:
E) He puts on a Robe of Arcane Heritage - As written, It works for sorcerers, with no mention of non-sorcerers who have access to bloodline powers. It was published after the Eldricth Heritage feat.
Items and feats are built on a basis of what they INCLUDE, not what they exclude. Since there is direct mention of sorcerers, it supports them. Since there is no mention of characters who use the Eldritch Heritage feats, they're left out in the cold.

That would have been difficult seeing as the Robes were first printed in the APG and the feat was first published in UM.

Shadow Lodge

Everyone with an animal companion is a druid.


add your FAQ to this thread. it is the oldest one i can think of.
ThreadI have comment on 3 different once dealing with this is issuse. This is 4th time, I have seen a thread about this so I suggesting FAQing to try and getting official ruling. you can see both arguments in the above thread. as well as a cost break down how the robe is vastly under powered per cost comepared to monk robe, who has a similar effect and is cheaper and works with any class.

Edit> I take it back this is the 5th time it showed up in the play test of new Advanced race guide because people wanted to know how it worked with the barbain sorc. hybrid class. But it was ingored.


Anzyr wrote:
Do you know what the words "treated as" mean? Serious question. Look LazarX, I know you don't like the rule, but that is no excuse for posting misinformation. RAW this clearly works for the reasons Remy Balster posted above. You don't like it fine, then houserule it.

All of the sorcerer bloodline powers reference sorcerer levels. So anything using them has to reference sorcerer levels.

For the purpose of using the specific power your treated as a sorcerer of x.

It doesn't make you a sorcerer. When something says xwhen a sorcerer does x" the eldritch feats don't work.

For the record I'm mostly of the view that if the wearer has to be a sorcerer them the robes don't work. If the wearer doesn't have to be a sorcerer then the wording of the feats is sufficient for the robes to work.


Not to speak for Lazar, but I do know what "treated as" means, and it is not "You are a Sorcerer"; it means that in certain specific circumstances you behave as a Sorcerer, and otherwise you do not.

Real-life analogy: I worked for Company A for 7 years; it was bought out two years ago by Company B. For the purposes of calculating my available vacation time, I'm treated as having worked for Company B for 9 years now. At the company Christmas party this past year, they had a drawing for a flat-screen television, and you got one entry ticket for each year you had been employed by Company B. How many tickets did I get? Two. Despite the fact that I was treated as an employee of Company B for 9 years for one specific purpose does not mean that I actually was an employee of Company B for 9 years.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the words 'treated as' or 'as if' ruled to mean that the person possesses whatever was mentioned, for all intents and purposes?

For example, if something is 'treated as dimension door' it functions as dimension door in all ways except where mentioned? Such as limiting the range to 10 ft. per caster level, but in all other ways 'treated as' dimension door.

So if something were 'treated as' sorcerer levels, then for all intents and purposes, they actually are sorcerer levels, even though he doesn't gain any spells or anything, he still has the levels for the purposes of interactions with the Robe.

[Edit] Another example, a dragon or rakshasha cast as a sorcerer of their hit die, and in fact stacks with sorcerer levels, but aren't actually sorcerers.


Serum wrote:
Everyone with an animal companion is a druid.

True, but only for the effects of the animal companion.


Xaratherus wrote:

Not to speak for Lazar, but I do know what "treated as" means, and it is not "You are a Sorcerer"; it means that in certain specific circumstances you behave as a Sorcerer, and otherwise you do not.

Real-life analogy: I worked for Company A for 7 years; it was bought out two years ago by Company B. For the purposes of calculating my available vacation time, I'm treated as having worked for Company B for 9 years now. At the company Christmas party this past year, they had a drawing for a flat-screen television, and you got one entry ticket for each year you had been employed by Company B. How many tickets did I get? Two. Despite the fact that I was treated as an employee of Company B for 9 years for one specific purpose does not mean that I actually was an employee of Company B for 9 years.

But... take a close look at what the feat is "treating as".

You treat "your sorcerer level" as "your character level-2".

This says you have a sorcerer level. And you treat this sorcerer level as your character level minus 2.

You must necessarily have a sorcerer level to ever treat your sorcerer level "as" something...

Ergo. You have sorcerer levels. But the only thing they do is determine the effect of your bloodline power.

Your real world example... You are treating you "time with the company" as if it were your "time with the company + time with the old company" for the purpose of vacation. Are you saying that you don't actually have "time with the company"?? Of course you do.

If I said we will treat your earth weight as your mars weight... you must necessarily have an earth weight.

If I said to treat your strength as the strength of a dragon, you must necessarily have a strength that is yours to be treating it "as" something else.

If I said to treat your apple as an orange. By the nature of this wording you must obviously have an apple.

So...

To treat your sorcerer level as your character level -2, you clearly must have a sorcerer level. (For the purposes of the bloodline only)


Remy Balster wrote:
This says you have a sorcerer level.

Not to bring up a different thread, but this is the same mindset behind the whole 'tail attack' debacle from a couple of months ago.

I see the RAI as pretty clear here: This is an item meant for characters who are cross-classed, with at least one class being Sorcerer. In that instance, instead of a Fighter 8\Sorcerer 2 being considered a 2nd level Sorcerer for using his bloodline ability, he's instead treated as an 8th level Sorcerer. If instead he's Fighter 10, he has no Sorcerer level, and the robe does nothing - just like taking a feat that says it grants you a tail attack does nothing if you don't actually have a tail to attack with.


BigDTBone wrote:
That would have been difficult seeing as the Robes were first printed in the APG and the feat was first published in UM.

Indeed, my mistake. I was looking at most recent copyright rather than original. I stand corrected on that point, thank you much. :)


Silly example time:

You work on a big project for class... but do a pretty horrible job. You turn in your crappy project and to your surprise the teacher says "I'll treat your project as if it were a good project, but only for the purpose of the grade you get". Then smiles and remarks "But in every other was your project isn't treated as a good project, so later on I'll have you present it, and I'll be laughing at you along with the rest of the class for how pitiful a job you did."

Did you have a project? Yes. For the purpose of your grade was your project treated as a good project? Yes. Was it a good project in any other regard? No.

But you did have a project.

Much is the same with Eldritch Heritage. You treat your sorcerer level as your character level -2. But only for the purpose of the bloodline power.

Do you have a sorcerer level? You must.


Xaratherus wrote:
Remy Balster wrote:
This says you have a sorcerer level.

Not to bring up a different thread, but this is the same mindset behind the whole 'tail attack' debacle from a couple of months ago.

I see the RAI as pretty clear here: This is an item meant for characters who are cross-classed, with at least one class being Sorcerer. In that instance, instead of a Fighter 8\Sorcerer 2 being considered a 2nd level Sorcerer for using his bloodline ability, he's instead treated as an 8th level Sorcerer. If instead he's Fighter 10, he has no Sorcerer level, and the robe does nothing - just like taking a feat that says it grants you a tail attack does nothing if you don't actually have a tail to attack with.

There is no connection to that thread whatsoever. And I'm pretty sure it is RAI for this to work as well. Have you even read the fluff/flavor text related to this?

"You are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins."

The robes are all about enhancing your connection to your heritage. They both have the same themes in common.

The robes enhance your connection to your ancestors... eldritch heritage basically establishes that you do in fact have sorcerer heritage.

RAI they go hand in hand beautifully.

RAW they most certainly do.


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I think that the "sorcerer dons..." language is fluff, not crunch. There's things that say they require a given class, and they are more explicit about it than that. I think it was just that, at the time it was written, the only way to have a sorcerer bloodline would be to be a sorcerer.

My ruling would be that the robe affects your sorcerer level only insofar as you have one. For purposes of that particular power, your sorcerer level is your character level -2, so for purposes of that particular power, when you are wearing the robe, it's character level - 2 + 4 => character level +2.

It doesn't give you a bonus to your sorcerer level for purposes of other powers. But that's okay since you don't have any.


Remy Balster wrote:
There is no connection to that thread whatsoever.

You're claiming that a magic item effectively grants a non-Sorcerer a Sorcerer level, just like that other discussion claimed that a feat caused a human to suddenly grow a tail in order to make an attack (and I disagree that was RAI either; just like this, it assumes you have a tail to begin with).

So while you state there's no connection, I disagree. A Robe of Arcane Heritage no more grants you effective levels in a class that you don't have than a feat causes a tail to rip from your butt because the feat says you can make a tail attack. Just like in that other thread, you might as well claim that taking the Extend Spell metamagic feat grants your Fighter the ability to cast spells since it says "Your spells last longer..."

There's also the fact that in order for RoAH to work for someone other than a Sorcerer, you have to pretzel-bend your logic around the fact that the mechanical section even specifically begins with, "When a Sorcerer dons..." Oh - that just applies to the decorative weave changing? No.


Yeah, not the same thing at all...

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