Fighter Bonus Feats


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As a general rule, bonus feats granted by class features don't need to meet the prerequisites of the feat, but it's usually spelled out pretty clearly in the class feature.

What about the fighter? The bonus feat class feature lacks the wording about bypassing feat prerequisites, but if the general rule (not spelled out anywhere that I can see) is to bypass, then that would mean they can.

Can anyone point me to a rule that restricts fighters in this way? Or better yet, provide the rules which mean that bonus feats don't generally bypass prerequisites?

Silver Crusade

You have to meet the pre-requisites for any feat you take as a fighter, whether it be fighter bonus feat, racial bonus feat, or normal feat gained through levelling.

PFRPG rules are written as permissive rules, meaning you can't do something unless the rules say you can. They are not restrictive rules, meaning you can do whatever you want unless the rules say otherwise.


That's the joy of the system. Rules go from general to specific. Since the general rule is "all feats require the listed prerequisites" and there is no specific "fighter bonus feats do not require the listed prerequisites", they require the listed prerequisites.

In all situations where a class allows you to gain the bonus feat while ignoring the prerequisites (I'm starting to hate typing this word, heh), that fact is spelled out clearly in the particular class feature. Fighters don't have that spelled out. Ergo, you must have the prerequisites.


Chemlak wrote:

As a general rule, bonus feats granted by class features don't need to meet the prerequisites of the feat, but it's usually spelled out pretty clearly in the class feature.

This is backwards...there is no general rule that bonus feats granted by class features don't need to meet the prerequisites of the feat.

Specifically, some classes bonus feats are able to waive this restriction, and there is language that spells this out in the class feature as a specific rule, which trumps the general rule.


What the three above me said.


I allow Fighter Bonus Feats to be swapped whenever you gain a new one, with Human Fighters getting to swap one each level. You cannot bypass prerequisites.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chemlak wrote:

As a general rule, bonus feats granted by class features don't need to meet the prerequisites of the feat, but it's usually spelled out pretty clearly in the class feature.

What about the fighter? The bonus feat class feature lacks the wording about bypassing feat prerequisites, but if the general rule (not spelled out anywhere that I can see) is to bypass, then that would mean they can.

Can anyone point me to a rule that restricts fighters in this way? Or better yet, provide the rules which mean that bonus feats don't generally bypass prerequisites?

You're looking at it backwards. It's ONLY the class abilities that specifically say that pre-reqs aren't needed that allow those bonus feats to be taken freely AT those levels for those classes.

Again the rules arne't built on what you can't do. You have to look for rules on what you CAN do. The fighter has no specific rules that say he can ignore pre-reqs. Rangers, monks, etc. have SPECIFIC rules on bonus feats taken at certain levels that do give them that option.

Also keep in mind that quite a few feats have pre-reqs that say Fighter Level X. That's not bypassed by using a bonus fighter slot.

Sczarni

Another rule of thumb is, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."

If Fighters could bypass prerequisites they'd be taking things like Greater Vital Strike at level 1.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Chemlak wrote:
As a general rule, bonus feats granted by class features don't need to meet the prerequisites of the feat, but it's usually spelled out pretty clearly in the class feature.

No such general rule exists.

You always must meet the pre-reqs unless the class feature granting the bonus feats say otherwise.

Scarab Sages

It doesn't specifically say that a fighter can't take combat feats he doesn't qualify for as bonus feats, but it is inferred.

"...The old feat (this is in reference to retraining a feat) cannot be a prerequisite for another feat..." (pg. 55 under Bonus Feats)

"...This designation does not restrict characters from other classes from selecting these feats, assuming they meet the prerequisites..." (pg 112 of Core Rulebook under Combat Feats)

"...He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the prerequisites..." (pg. 65 of Cure Rulebook under Combat Style Feat. This is in reference to the bonus feats gained by rangers, and specifically states that the ranger does not need to meet the prerequisites.)

In conclusion, while it does not specifically state that a fighter doesn't have to meet the prerequisites, it is inferred. I would put it under RAI, not RAW. But, as a GM, I wouldn't allow a fighter to take a combat feat that he or she doesn't mee the prereq's for. Otherwise, the fighter could jump straight to any of the Greater feats and destroy.


William Sinclair wrote:

It doesn't specifically say that a fighter can't take combat feats he doesn't qualify for as bonus feats, but it is inferred.

"...The old feat (this is in reference to retraining a feat) cannot be a prerequisite for another feat..." (pg. 55 under Bonus Feats)

"...This designation does not restrict characters from other classes from selecting these feats, assuming they meet the prerequisites..." (pg 112 of Core Rulebook under Combat Feats)

"...He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the prerequisites..." (pg. 65 of Cure Rulebook under Combat Style Feat. This is in reference to the bonus feats gained by rangers, and specifically states that the ranger does not need to meet the prerequisites.)

In conclusion, while it does not specifically state that a fighter doesn't have to meet the prerequisites, it is inferred. I would put it under RAI, not RAW. But, as a GM, I wouldn't allow a fighter to take a combat feat that he or she doesn't mee the prereq's for. Otherwise, the fighter could jump straight to any of the Greater feats and destroy.

How does any of this let you infer that a Fighter can ignore prerequisites when selecting bonus feats?

The first excerpt says that when replacing a feat, the feat being replaced cannot be a prerequisite for a feat that the Fighter is keeping. So you can't dump Weapon Focus (longsword) if you have Weapon Specialization (longsword), but you can dump Improved Initiative (just going off of CRB feats).

"Any feat designated as a combat feat can be selected as a fighter's bonus feat. This designation does not restrict characters of other classes from selecting these feats, assuming that they meet the prerequisites." doesn't mean that Fighters can ignore prerequisites. It's just saying that Fighters must select one of these kinds of feats with its Bonus Feats feature. The entry is just clarifying that one need not be a Fighter to select a Combat feat - they're available to anybody, provided the prerequisites are met.

The last section is from the Rangers section as you note. That section specifically calls out not needing to satisfy prerequisites. Monks do the same thing.

The indication (particularly from this last one) implies the opposite of what you claim: the intent quite clearly is that unless you are specifically told otherwise, you must satisfy all prerequisites for feats you select, even bonus feats.

If Fighters could, by RAW, ignore prerequisites, pretty much every 1st Level Fighter in PFS would be running around Greater Vital Striking with an Earth Breaker, as Nefreet noted. Greater Vital Strike isn't a great feat. But Greater Vital Strike at 1st Level when all you can do is standard action attack? That's amazing! 8d6 + 1.5 STR + 1.5 PA every time you attack at first level. Your 1st level 18 STR Fighter is averaging 37 points of damage per hit.

Silver Crusade

Fretgod, I think you misunderstood William's post. It took me a couple of readings to make sure I was reading it properly. He is arguing that fighters do have to meet the pre-requisitites for their bonus feats.

Liberty's Edge

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Fretgod, I think you misunderstood William's post. It took me a couple of readings to make sure I was reading it properly. He is arguing that fighters do have to meet the pre-requisitites for their bonus feats.

Actually I think he has the right of it. William seems to be stating that meeting the requirements for Fighter bonus feats isn't RAW, but is probably RAI. Fret was pointing out, rightly so, that the General rule on feats is that pre-reqs must be met and as there is NO Specific rule to override that for Fighter bonus feats, it is indeed RAW.


Fomsie wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Fretgod, I think you misunderstood William's post. It took me a couple of readings to make sure I was reading it properly. He is arguing that fighters do have to meet the pre-requisitites for their bonus feats.
Actually I think he has the right of it. William seems to be stating that meeting the requirements for Fighter bonus feats isn't RAW, but is probably RAI. Fret was pointing out, rightly so, that the General rule on feats is that pre-reqs must be met and as there is NO Specific rule to override that for Fighter bonus feats, it is indeed RAW.

That's how I read it.

However, in the event that BBJ is correct and I misread it, I reserve the right to resort to the "words are hard" defense.


It is not RAI or RAW for a fighter to skip prereqs for feats. The ONLY reason the monk and ranger can do so is because they book says they can.

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