|
Here's the situation:
Your caster sees a body 25' in front of him that just fell in battle. You cast Stabilize on it from where you stand. Do you know if the body was unconscious and, therefore, your spell succeeds or the body was (con) dead and the spell does nothing?
Does the caster have someway of knowing how it succeeded or not? I don't see any mention of any sort of feedback mechanism in the rules on this.
|
|
So, the "Spell Failure" section in the Core guide states: "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted."
This might seem, like a subtle question....How does the caster know the spell failed to do as he intended (or the "casting failed')? Does he get some indication the spell didn't go off? Or did the spell go off, and just not do anything and that's failure?
Good question. I think the rules are silent on if you know when a spell like this fails.
Several skills (Disguise, Religion, Perception, Heal) could be used to determine if the body was dead/undead/etc.
But as to the caster just having a feeling that the spell did nothing...I can't see any RAW that supports this.
There's no official 'flavor' on it, to my knowledge. However, if you look at the rules for saving throws it states that a caster "senses" that his spell failed if the target makes its save, so it's probably much the same. In the case of Stabilize, it can only target "one living creature", so personally I'd inform someone attempting to cast it on a dead body that it isn't a valid target for the spell.
Hmm. Could that make Stabilize an automatic undead detector?
Good question. I think the rules are silent on if you know when a spell like this fails.
Several skills (Disguise, Religion, Perception, Heal) could be used to determine if the body was dead/undead/etc.
But as to the caster just having a feeling that the spell did nothing...I can't see any RAW that supports this.
Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
Its not QUITE the same as failing because a will save was made, but it would be incredibly odd for a dying creature to be willing and able to make a save against a stabilize spell.
Unless the spell has some sort of visual effect, I don't see how the caster could know the difference between "spell fails and is wasted" and "spell succeeds".
In the specific case of Stabilize, there's a spell to provide the feedback you're looking for, which would be Deathwatch.
EDIT: Scratch that, Deathwatch wouldn't actually help you here, my bad.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yep...that's the point of contention...how would the spell (or caster) "know" that it's not a legitimate target? Effectively, what's to stop the caster from casting the spell on a sword? Yes, the casting would fail (as indicated in the rules)...but is a failed casting obvious to the caster? I have a feeling the answer is Yes on this one, but I don't see that explicitly spelled out anywhere.
There's no official 'flavor' on it, to my knowledge. However, if you look at the rules for saving throws it states that a caster "senses" that his spell failed if the target makes its save, so it's probably much the same. In the case of Stabilize, it can only target "one living creature", so personally I'd inform someone attempting to cast it on a dead body that it isn't a valid target for the spell.
THAT is an awesome question!
Hmm. Could that make Stabilize an automatic undead detector?
I don't think so.
"Upon casting this spell, you target a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points."
How would you be able to tell if it failed because the creature isn't living, or it failed because it has more than -1 hit points?
Hmm. Could that make Stabilize an automatic undead detector?
Not necessarily. It could mean the target is actually dead, that the target wasn't a "living creature" to begin with (that doesn't necessarily mean undead; it could be an illusion, it could be a clockwork creature), or that the spell was impeded by some external force (maybe there's a Wall of Force between you and it)...
THAT is an awesome question!
Hmm. Could that make Stabilize an automatic undead detector?
No.
Upon casting this spell, you target a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points.
So if you get a "404 error target not found" The person could be
at 0 or more hit points (my kobolds have started their own academy in oppara for dropping when hit)
Undead
Dead (and thus no longer a living creature)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
THAT is an awesome question!
Hmm. Could that make Stabilize an automatic undead detector?I don't think so.
"Upon casting this spell, you target a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points."
How would you be able to tell if it failed because the creature isn't living, or it failed because it has more than -1 hit points?
If it's walking around and talking you would know that it isn't at -1 hit points. But it could be a vampire (or any of a number of other undead types) in disguise.
This spell can be freely cast all day. An easy way to determine if someone you are having a conversation with is undead if "detect when fail due to bad target" is the case.
I agree, the caster could assume that if it's walking around and talking it isn't at -1 hitpoints, but how would the spell know that? Spell failure in this case is based on target conditions being met, not on what the caster thinks.
EDIT: Hang on, I may not be thinking this through properly, i need more coffee.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
If it's walking around and talking you would know that it isn't at -1 hit points.
Or, you know, has the Diehard feat. Or ferocity. Or has woken up after falling to negatives - read the section on natural healing, it's entirely possible to be at, say, -5 and be up and about.
If it's walking around and talking you would know that it isn't at -1 hit points.Or, you know, has the Diehard feat. Or ferocity. Or has woken up after falling to negatives - read the section on natural healing, it's entirely possible to be at, say, -5 and be up and about.
That mentions edge cases without addressing the real question.
Also, in the case of both Diehard and ferocity a creature will be staggered, and a creature with ferocity will loose 1 HP per round.
"My Stabilize spell failed. I wonder if he's undead...oh, no. Wait. He just dropped dead."
|
|
Here's the question:
If a casting fails...what does that mean to the caster...Do they KNOW it failed? Is there a feedback mechanism of some sort to like hit the caster upside the head so to speak and say...what you tried to do didn't work. OR, does he finish casting and nothing happen that tells him either way?
Stabilize cast on healthy Vampire: Fails due to target not being at -1 or below and not being alive.
Stabilize cast on dying Vampire: Fails due to target not not being alive.
Stabilize cast on Healthy human: Fails due to target not being -1 or below.
I don't see how the caster can know why (or even if) the spell actually failed in that scenario.
EDIT: Scratch that bit about dying vampires.
|
|
But, does the caster know that the casting failed?
Stabilize cast on healthy Vampire: Fails due to target not being at -1 or below and not being alive.
Stabilize cast on dying Vampire: Fails due to target not not being alive.
Stabilize cast on Healthy human: Fails due to target not being -1 or below.
I don't see how the caster can know why the spell actually failed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Vampires and other undead go "poof" when they hit 0 HP. There's no dying status for them (well... except constantly being living impaired)
Vampires and other undead go "poof" when they hit 0 HP. There's no dying status for them (well... except constantly being living impaired)
Fair point. Scratch that example then, but the other two still hold, I think.
But, does the caster know that the casting failed?
Stabilize cast on healthy Vampire: Fails due to target not being at -1 or below and not being alive.
Stabilize cast on dying Vampire: Fails due to target not not being alive.
Stabilize cast on Healthy human: Fails due to target not being -1 or below.
I don't see how the caster can know why the spell actually failed.
Only if the point that Xaratherus raised earlier can be extrapolated beyond situations with saving throws involved. Otherwise...seems not.
Stabilize cast on healthy Vampire: Fails due to target not being at -1 or below and not being alive.
Stabilize cast on Healthy human: Fails due to target not being -1 or below.
I don't see how the caster can know why (or even if) the spell actually failed in that scenario.
Good points. Does a caster know WHY a spell fails? The rules say that a caster can sense if a save was made. But what about when it fails for another reason?
I thing the rules are silent on this, but would love to hear otherwise.
|
|
This whole question came about because I had a player cast Stabilize on someone wounded and 25 feet away. I told him he doesn't know the results of the Stabilize, that is, whether the wounded comrade was already dead (and the spell casting would fail) or dying (and the spell casting would succeed) unless he went up to inspect. He noted that he would "know" if his spell failed or not. Really? I agree, the book is silent on what it means to have a spell casting fail. Does the caster complete the spell and just wonder if it went off okay or does his magical prowess 7th sense somehow tell him that his spell didn't go off?