paizo.com Recent Posts in Coin Concernpaizo.com Recent Posts in Coin Concern2014-03-13T22:40:29Z2014-03-13T22:40:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1352014-03-18T01:30:04Z2014-03-18T01:30:04Z<p>kkkkyeyayaaahhhh</p>kkkkyeyayaaahhhhBrotherZael2014-03-18T01:30:04ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernFanndis Goldbraid (alias of Hardin Steele)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1342014-03-17T21:00:15Z2014-03-17T21:00:15Z<p>Me too!</p>Me too!Fanndis Goldbraid (alias of Hardin Steele)2014-03-17T21:00:15ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernHardin Steelehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1332014-03-18T01:29:49Z2014-03-17T20:59:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bringslite wrote:</div><blockquote> My favorite part of this post is the Goblin Squad tag after your name Hardin. :) </blockquote><p>Indeed! I am a year late, but you knew I'd get on board sooner or later!Bringslite wrote:My favorite part of this post is the Goblin Squad tag after your name Hardin. :)
Indeed! I am a year late, but you knew I'd get on board sooner or later!Hardin Steele2014-03-17T20:59:39ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBringslitehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1322014-03-17T17:39:15Z2014-03-17T17:12:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Hardin Steele wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Being wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Hardin Steele wrote:</div><blockquote> ...the idea was not universally appreciated.</blockquote>In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a <i>any</i> 'universally appreciated' idea? </blockquote>Heh. Probably not. I DO really like the idea of being able to tell when a Kingdom has begun to devalue its currency (through testing the coins' purity, which must be another skill set), and I very much like the idea of the Kingdoms' governments mining, smelting, minting and storing precious metals. But this would be a complex issue to code and the value to the general population may be limited. It would affect everyone, but most would be subject to the situation with little or no skills to counter it. One f those "cool things" that make a few very excited while pissing off many thousands more. Still, I'll vote for it if the opportunity ever comes up. </blockquote><p>My favorite part of this post is the Goblin Squad tag after your name Hardin. :)Hardin Steele wrote:Being wrote: Hardin Steele wrote: ...the idea was not universally appreciated.
In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a any 'universally appreciated' idea? Heh. Probably not. I DO really like the idea of being able to tell when a Kingdom has begun to devalue its currency (through testing...Bringslite2014-03-17T17:12:55ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1312014-03-17T16:13:19Z2014-03-17T16:13:19Z<p>I like Amberfire's system. I'd say it would need to be a longer than an hour, but then I am just a patient guy so who am I to say.</p>I like Amberfire's system. I'd say it would need to be a longer than an hour, but then I am just a patient guy so who am I to say.BrotherZael2014-03-17T16:13:19ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernAmberfirehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1302014-03-17T07:05:23Z2014-03-17T07:05:23Z<p>I see the point about players would create workarounds. But I also see the value in coin having at least SOME sense of weight, volume, lootability, location, etc.</p>
<p>How about a two level, or hybrid, system?</p>
<p>Give coin weight and some lootability. Also have a series of NPC 'banks' that offer 'savings accounts'. These savings would be safe and accessible from many/any settlement, but not IMMEDIATELY accessible for withdrawal. Lets say an hour delay before you get the coin. Now also make any coin sent by mail also take one hour to arrive.</p>
<p>Combine this with an assumed inability to have two characters online at the same time (unless you subscribe for each), and you have a system that encourages you to choose between convenience and security. People would store their wealth in the savings, but keep their spending money on hand. This system would deal with most of the discussed downsides, yet encourage people to carry some coin with them.</p>
<p>I'm a bit tired, so I am probably missing some issues with such a system. I would love to hear what they are, if you guys see what they are.</p>I see the point about players would create workarounds. But I also see the value in coin having at least SOME sense of weight, volume, lootability, location, etc.
How about a two level, or hybrid, system?
Give coin weight and some lootability. Also have a series of NPC 'banks' that offer 'savings accounts'. These savings would be safe and accessible from many/any settlement, but not IMMEDIATELY accessible for withdrawal. Lets say an hour delay before you get the coin. Now also make any coin...Amberfire2014-03-17T07:05:23ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernLamhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1292014-03-17T04:13:14Z2014-03-17T04:13:14Z<p>DO advocate for this. It is not MVP; it will not happen in EE; it will not be in start of OE; most OE players will not even understand what you are asking for. Well into OE, after witch and summoner and alchemist and boats and … then it may be of interest of some players. And it will be added.</p>DO advocate for this. It is not MVP; it will not happen in EE; it will not be in start of OE; most OE players will not even understand what you are asking for. Well into OE, after witch and summoner and alchemist and boats and … then it may be of interest of some players. And it will be added.Lam2014-03-17T04:13:14ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernHardin Steelehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1282014-03-17T17:12:03Z2014-03-17T03:44:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Being wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Hardin Steele wrote:</div><blockquote> ...the idea was not universally appreciated.</blockquote>In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a <i>any</i> 'universally appreciated' idea? </blockquote><p>Heh. Probably not. I DO really like the idea of being able to tell when a Kingdom has begun to devalue its currency (through testing the coins' purity, which must be another skill set), and I very much like the idea of the Kingdoms' governments mining, smelting, minting and storing precious metals. But this would be a complex issue to code and the value to the general population may be limited. It would affect everyone, but most would be subject to the situation with little or no skills to counter it. One f those "cool things" that make a few very excited while pissing off many thousands more. Still, I'll vote for it if the opportunity ever comes up.Being wrote:Hardin Steele wrote: ...the idea was not universally appreciated.
In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a any 'universally appreciated' idea? Heh. Probably not. I DO really like the idea of being able to tell when a Kingdom has begun to devalue its currency (through testing the coins' purity,...Hardin Steele2014-03-17T03:44:35ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1272014-03-14T13:12:04Z2014-03-14T13:12:04Z<p>I: yep</p>I: yepBrotherZael2014-03-14T13:12:04ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBeinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1262014-03-14T13:06:53Z2014-03-14T13:06:53Z<p>That capacity fills volumes.</p>That capacity fills volumes.Being2014-03-14T13:06:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1252014-03-14T12:59:33Z2014-03-14T12:59:33Z<p>yes. all humans are born at some point and at some point have the capacity to die/be killed.</p>yes. all humans are born at some point and at some point have the capacity to die/be killed.BrotherZael2014-03-14T12:59:33ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBeinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1242014-03-14T17:49:01Z2014-03-14T12:51:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Hardin Steele wrote:</div><blockquote> ...the idea was not universally appreciated.</blockquote><p>In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a <i>any</i> 'universally appreciated' idea?Hardin Steele wrote:...the idea was not universally appreciated.
In this modal day and age, where 'fact finding' means deciding on the outcome that seems most convenient and accepting as gospel truth whatever might support that and completely tossing out anything that disagrees, is there a any 'universally appreciated' idea?Being2014-03-14T12:51:31ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1232014-03-14T11:57:03Z2014-03-14T11:57:03Z<p>@AvenaOats</p>
<p>Actually, yes. This is a situation of "wouldn't it be cool if" that frankly would make the few people who enjoy and do play that role become OP. I'd like to put forward any time in history where a new currency was introduced by a foreign agent as an example.</p>
<p>It just is not worth the effort (at this point) for GW especially since we honestly don't know what the in-game economy is going to look like. sure, there are serious parallels with EVE, but to assume it is going to be relatively similar is something I'll disagree with. A fantasy mmorpg where you control a single character (I understand alts are always going to be a thing, but to my knowledge you can directly control more than one vessel in EVE without use of an alt which is what I am meaning) is different than a space mmo where you control a captain/admiral/whatever. There is more, but I won't bring it up unless needed.</p>@AvenaOats
Actually, yes. This is a situation of "wouldn't it be cool if" that frankly would make the few people who enjoy and do play that role become OP. I'd like to put forward any time in history where a new currency was introduced by a foreign agent as an example.
It just is not worth the effort (at this point) for GW especially since we honestly don't know what the in-game economy is going to look like. sure, there are serious parallels with EVE, but to assume it is going to be...BrotherZael2014-03-14T11:57:03ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernAvenaOatshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1222014-03-14T10:05:39Z2014-03-14T10:05:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Hardin Steele wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Being wrote:</div><blockquote> There is even some merit to different currencies minted by different settlements giving rise to exchange rates and currency speculation. </blockquote><p>We did beat the "Kingdom Coinage" thing up a bit several months ago at this link <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q9u3?Allow-Kingdoms-to-mint-their-own-currency#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Allow Kingdoms to Mint Their Own Currency</a>.
<p>Personally I like the complexities of each Kingdom being allowed to mine ore, smelt it, and mint their own coinage, but there are some obvious problems and the idea was not universally appreciated.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>I like the idea, but skimming over that thread, seeing Ryan's response, is the main problem that middle-men / money-exchangers is a sort of specialist role that gets financially very complex that then degrades the experience of normal players not as adept at understanding such financial information? As well as such individuals being able to implement very shady methods such as currency speculation to bring down a Nation? Also if GW is the central bank, they in effect are the only ones "printing money out of thin air" and hence able to control the money supply?
<p>Making a lot of broad guesses on my shaking knowledge of such matters, but as said I really like the idea of different currencies making the world seem more exotic and atmospheric, but even if GW were more amenable to implementing it there would be a need for a lot of rules on how money is handled (eg interest rates and exchange rates and all that craziness!)?! As can be gleaned there's depth and then there's a black hole of debt/deflation/mudflation/inflation etc. lol.</p>Hardin Steele wrote:Being wrote: There is even some merit to different currencies minted by different settlements giving rise to exchange rates and currency speculation.
We did beat the "Kingdom Coinage" thing up a bit several months ago at this link Allow Kingdoms to Mint Their Own Currency. Personally I like the complexities of each Kingdom being allowed to mine ore, smelt it, and mint their own coinage, but there are some obvious problems and the idea was not universally appreciated.
I...AvenaOats2014-03-14T10:05:39ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernForencith (alias of KitNyx)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1212014-03-14T02:05:29Z2014-03-14T02:05:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Drakhan Valane wrote:</div><blockquote> There won't be unless GW changes the Coin system. </blockquote><p>Okay, got it...discussion of a hypothetical.Drakhan Valane wrote:There won't be unless GW changes the Coin system.
Okay, got it...discussion of a hypothetical.Forencith (alias of KitNyx)2014-03-14T02:05:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernDrakhan Valanehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1202014-03-14T01:55:29Z2014-03-14T01:55:29Z<p>There won't be unless GW changes the Coin system.</p>There won't be unless GW changes the Coin system.Drakhan Valane2014-03-14T01:55:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernForencith (alias of KitNyx)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1192014-03-14T01:49:53Z2014-03-14T01:49:53Z<p>Why do we assume there will be NPC banks at all?</p>Why do we assume there will be NPC banks at all?Forencith (alias of KitNyx)2014-03-14T01:49:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBringslitehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1182014-03-14T01:50:47Z2014-03-14T00:48:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BrotherZael wrote:</div><blockquote> I do it all the time :D esp. back in ole runescape where I would make a mil in gold and then just aimlessly wander the pvp wildy in bronze armor and a staff. good times. good times. </blockquote><p>Yours sounds like it was on purpose, while I would never risk The Precious that way. :PBrotherZael wrote:I do it all the time :D esp. back in ole runescape where I would make a mil in gold and then just aimlessly wander the pvp wildy in bronze armor and a staff. good times. good times.
Yours sounds like it was on purpose, while I would never risk The Precious that way. :PBringslite2014-03-14T00:48:54ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1172014-03-14T00:44:20Z2014-03-14T00:44:20Z<p>I do it all the time :D esp. back in ole runescape where I would make a mil in gold and then just aimlessly wander the pvp wildy in bronze armor and a staff. good times. good times.</p>I do it all the time :D esp. back in ole runescape where I would make a mil in gold and then just aimlessly wander the pvp wildy in bronze armor and a staff. good times. good times.BrotherZael2014-03-14T00:44:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBringslitehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1162014-03-14T00:37:06Z2014-03-14T00:37:06Z<p>Hehe. I wonder how many times I have found myself 1/2 way to a ridiculously dangerous place with a huge amount of tangible coin on me?</p>Hehe. I wonder how many times I have found myself 1/2 way to a ridiculously dangerous place with a huge amount of tangible coin on me?Bringslite2014-03-14T00:37:06ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1152014-03-14T00:19:31Z2014-03-14T00:19:31Z<p>Also because if it is that way, it is the same as an Alt bank which we were trying to avoid.</p>Also because if it is that way, it is the same as an Alt bank which we were trying to avoid.BrotherZael2014-03-14T00:19:31ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1142014-03-14T00:19:00Z2014-03-14T00:19:00Z<p>@Lifedragn</p>
<p>because that was the specific issue I was discussing. Linked banks with tangible money and a lack of infinite coin. This requires coin transportation, directly influencing SADs. We don't SADs to be coin-heavy, so these would be "bank notes" instead of straight coin, and the "notes" would need a fence of some sort.</p>@Lifedragn
because that was the specific issue I was discussing. Linked banks with tangible money and a lack of infinite coin. This requires coin transportation, directly influencing SADs. We don't SADs to be coin-heavy, so these would be "bank notes" instead of straight coin, and the "notes" would need a fence of some sort.BrotherZael2014-03-14T00:19:00ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernLifedragnhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1132014-03-14T00:09:38Z2014-03-14T00:09:38Z<p>Why do we assume banks are automatically linked or affiliated? The bank in Thornkeep is under no obligation to respect how much coin you may have in the bank at Fort Inevitable. If you need your money, you need to go where it is kept. If you want more convenience, go take the risk with a player run organization. NPC banks should be for safety, but don't need to be convenient. You need to make a meaningful decision.</p>Why do we assume banks are automatically linked or affiliated? The bank in Thornkeep is under no obligation to respect how much coin you may have in the bank at Fort Inevitable. If you need your money, you need to go where it is kept. If you want more convenience, go take the risk with a player run organization. NPC banks should be for safety, but don't need to be convenient. You need to make a meaningful decision.Lifedragn2014-03-14T00:09:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernBrotherZaelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1122014-03-14T00:05:29Z2014-03-14T00:05:29Z<p>wouldn't it be cool to... yeah</p>
<p>@Lifedragn</p>
<p>The reason I asked is because if NPCs have unlimited money, then NPC banks have unlimited funds, then money does not <i>need</i> to be physically transferred. I feel like it should be, somehow. This does have problems though, should we make NPCs have limited funds, as you have pointed out.</p>
<p>That said, I don't see NPCs buying much of the goods players get. The idea is to have everything PC driven, and there won't be many "quests" except situational ones (as far as I know) so NPCs not having unlimited funds isn't that big of a problem to me. in addition, monsters shouldn't drop finished goods for the most part, other than their gear or specialty items, which will be sold to crafters or other players (make it so low-level mobs don't drop their low-level gear would be a good solution and is used in many games) not to NPCs.</p>
<p>To be honest, I don't think the funding of NPCs will matter much, unless they are going to be aggressively engaging PCs (e.g. Hellknights recruit a ton of members, buy up a whole bunch of top-tier gear for them, and invade a new settlement).</p>wouldn't it be cool to... yeah
@Lifedragn
The reason I asked is because if NPCs have unlimited money, then NPC banks have unlimited funds, then money does not need to be physically transferred. I feel like it should be, somehow. This does have problems though, should we make NPCs have limited funds, as you have pointed out.
That said, I don't see NPCs buying much of the goods players get. The idea is to have everything PC driven, and there won't be many "quests" except situational ones (as...BrotherZael2014-03-14T00:05:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Coin ConcernHardin Steelehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qs33&page=3?Coin-Concern#1112014-03-14T09:56:15Z2014-03-13T23:56:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Being wrote:</div><blockquote> There is even some merit to different currencies minted by different settlements giving rise to exchange rates and currency speculation. </blockquote><p>We did beat the "Kingdom Coinage" thing up a bit several months ago at this link <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q9u3?Allow-Kingdoms-to-mint-their-own-currency#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Allow Kingdoms to Mint Their Own Currency</a>.
<p>Personally I like the complexities of each Kingdom being allowed to mine ore, smelt it, and mint their own coinage, but there are some obvious problems and the idea was not universally appreciated.</p>Being wrote:There is even some merit to different currencies minted by different settlements giving rise to exchange rates and currency speculation.
We did beat the "Kingdom Coinage" thing up a bit several months ago at this link Allow Kingdoms to Mint Their Own Currency. Personally I like the complexities of each Kingdom being allowed to mine ore, smelt it, and mint their own coinage, but there are some obvious problems and the idea was not universally appreciated.Hardin Steele2014-03-13T23:56:15Z