Stand and Deliver Discussion


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Goblin Squad Member

Ah, good call with the merchants and guards being one faction. I assume then that merchant is not anyone with a player run shop...since any crafter can hark their wares, but more the traveling merchant type? Increased cargo, speed, decreased guard contract costs, ability to drive a wagon, etc? And, I assume due to the skill set, these people will also be used for moving goods from PoIs and harvesting camps to Settlements...which makes sense if we want to keep them target-able by outlaws.

It sounds like the "merchant faction" will be quite diverse and have several avenues and mechanics (such as teamster and guard) for characters to specialize in. I just hope there are just as many options, choices, and diversity within the "outlaw faction".

Goblin Squad Member

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I like where this s going. Not sure about outlaws, but I can think of many things possible to motivate joining the "Economic" or Trader's Faction. Many roles and many scalable benefits.

+!!

Disclaimer: All vows to drop a subject are voided when a GW Developer adds to the discussion.

Goblin Squad Member

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This thread for the win!!! And it only took a bit over 1200 posts. Thanks to Stephen and to all of those who kept it on topic, very remarkable indeed,

Goblin Squad Member

Forencith wrote:
Finally, some other notes on the interaction of these three factions, teamsters, bandits, and marshals. We can assume marshals will be given anti-bandit skills and bandits will be given anti-teamster skills, but unless teamsters are given skills which directly influence marshals it does not seem to be a complete system...and I have few ideas about what form such influence could take. Alternately, we could argue they should not be an intertwined system and instead separate systems. Bandits and marshals should be given skills that counter each other...and similarly (but separately) teamsters and bandits should be given skills that counter each other. Given the game setting, The River Kingdoms, I can understand an argument for bandits/outlaws being the crux, or axle, of the interaction mechanics...even if I think their influence overall will be negligible in the game of Kingdoms and Nations.

I'd offer that there doesn't necessarily need to be one monolithic marshal faction. Hellknights, Knights of Iomedae, and Denizens of the Echo Wood might all have marshals. They might all see bandits as enemies, and see each other as some mix of enemies or neutrals.

Goblin Squad Member

True, I was more concerned with the caravan guards, but Stephen has solved my concern by rolling them into the "Traders Guild".

Goblin Squad Member

Lee Hammock has some experience building a faction system from his work as lead developer of Fallen Earth.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:
This thread for the win!!!

Don't forget Crowdforging (the concept) FTW, too. Impressive to balance so many moving pieces, keeping the thread on-topic (mostly), civil (mostly), and productive (Stephen's post #1200 gives pretty solid evidence).

Congratulations again, to all participants and contributors.

Goblin Squad Member

Just to confirm - a bit back there was talk about self-flags such as bandit and enforcer? I think they were scrapped, but I'm not sure exactly why that was.

Wouldn't it still be easy to have a secondary flag system where you designate yourself as merchant/bandit/etc granting access to SAD or other mechanics and if you perform an action outside the scope of your flag (i.e. killing someone without being a bandit) you take a huge rep penalty. Wouldn't that simply force those who want to be criminals but maintain neutral reputations to perform certain actions without the rep hit while also preventing others from exploiting them?

OR - and this is just spitballing - rather than have neutral NPC merchant and bandit factions, why can't players make their own factions and have positive or negative relations with them. Maybe limit them to settlements, but if each settlement has a faction rating related to it, and you rob/kill any member of that settlement, even if your not a war, your rating relative to that faction would go down. The settlement could then set certain thresholds before members of the settlement faction could auto target those bandits.

Actually, start with the NPC faction, and then add settlement factions on top of that later (since settlements will be a bit before their implemented).

Goblin Squad Member

There is much story potential in a merchant/guard trader's guild or faction as the case may be. Backstory should be a piece of cake... until the other factions must be neatly interwoven...

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

The more I see factions, the less optimistic for PFO. I was told this would be a game with no factions, and they are now becoming central to both skills and PvP.

I'm rather disappointed.

Goblin Squad Member

Alexander_Damocles wrote:

The more I see factions, the less optimistic for PFO. I was told this would be a game with no factions, and they are now becoming central to both skills and PvP.

I'm rather disappointed.

Who said there woukd be no factions? GW has mentioned faction warfare for quite some time now, at least a year.

Goblin Squad Member

Alexander_Damocles wrote:

The more I see factions, the less optimistic for PFO. I was told this would be a game with no factions, and they are now becoming central to both skills and PvP.

I'm rather disappointed.

Yeah, I'm not sold on this solution just yet either.

As per my previous post on the topic, I think it takes something away from character development.

Can a 'good bandit' mix with merchants and guards in this opposing faction, or is Sir Highnmightyguard just going to draw his blade and just stab him at any second while his friends just have to stand around and watch?

Can a merchant set up a deal with some bandits to harry their opposition and steal their goods (supplementing their own) or would the merchants own guards just up and kill these bandits in their frenzied red v blue attacks?.

Never been a fan of faction v faction, but I'll wait until more information is forthcoming before solidifying my opinion.

Goblin Squad Member

There is something to be said for factions as a more general way to opt into PVP. Factions are old news. Still they were never meant to be as all consuming as in certain other games.

One way or another, we are going to be subject to possible PVP by the preferred methods or suckage for not following the preferred methods. At least we have some choices better than Horde vs. Alliance.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:

There is something to be said for factions as a more general way to opt into PVP. Factions are old news. Still they were never meant to be as all consuming as in certain other games.

One way or another, we are going to be subject to possible PVP by the preferred methods or suckage for not following the preferred methods. At least we have some choices better than Horde vs. Alliance.

You're dead right. It solves a bunch of issues, and it's not as blunt as Horde v Alliance. Hence I'm reserving full judgement :)

Goblin Squad Member

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Factions were introduced, back in September 2013, as a way to allow players in small groups to engage in meaningful PvP without reputation loss. (I am curious as to how much factional conflict will affect the factions themselves - I'm skeptical of the word meaningful here.)

And as they said then: of course, some players will choose to avoid the faction system all together, allowing them to opt out of PvP in all but settlement level conflict. (And feuds, I assume.)

I interpret that as drover and guard players can join the merchant faction and work up to rank 3 for whatever mechanical benefits - but if they choose not to flag 'for the cause', then they're not a valid factional warfare target. They'd have to be attacked by a simple rep-loss attack? I actually expect that we'll still need the S&D mechanic, though it might be trained through the bandit faction.

Goblin Squad Member

@Jiminy - you made me think of the possibility of false-flag operations, if parties are drawn into faction fights.

"Hey, yeah I'm a Rank 4 Faction A member, it won't be a problem; I won't do anything stupid if you let me join your group."

Moments later: "We see you have a Rank Faction A guy in your party, prepare to die..."

Goblin Squad Member

Urman wrote:

@Jiminy - you made me think of the possibility of false-flag operations, if parties are drawn into faction fights.

"Hey, yeah I'm a Rank 4 Faction A member, it won't be a problem; I won't do anything stupid if you let me join your group."

Moments later: "We see you have a Rank Faction A guy in your party, prepare to die..."

heh, I removed my post as the one I was responding to was removed.

Yeah, this is sort of what I am getting at. Factions remove the options of such things and hinder the ability to be a 'good' bad guy (or the reverse) because your own team will be out trying to kill you all the time.

Goblin Squad Member

I feel like there should be merchant/bandit/guard class options equivalent in scope to commoner/expert/aristocrat.

Goblin Squad Member

Jiminy wrote:
Urman wrote:

@Jiminy - you made me think of the possibility of false-flag operations, if parties are drawn into faction fights.

"Hey, yeah I'm a Rank 4 Faction A member, it won't be a problem; I won't do anything stupid if you let me join your group."

Moments later: "We see you have a Rank Faction A guy in your party, prepare to die..."

heh, I removed my post as the one I was responding to was removed.

Yeah, this is sort of what I am getting at. Factions remove the options of such things and hinder the ability to be a 'good' bad guy (or the reverse) because your own team will be out trying to kill you all the time.

If that was my post, apologies. You were too quick. My first was responding to Alexander, but also worked for yours. My next was redundant. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

I skipped a lot of recent. I am not supposed to post from work and can not always get my cell to post.

Merchants are on faction. Bandits are another. WHat if bandits want to transport "loot" or other commodities across the land? Are they now merchant faction? Can they join a merchant caravan as "Merchants" and then, can they revert to bandits when the caravan is attacked (Not like that has never happened)?

Goblin Squad Member

Lam wrote:

I skipped a lot of recent. I am not supposed to post from work and can not always get my cell to post.

Merchants are on faction. Bandits are another. WHat if bandits want to transport "loot" or other commodities across the land? Are they now merchant faction? Can they join a merchant caravan as "Merchants" and then, can they revert to bandits when the caravan is attacked (Not like that has never happened)?

As of some blog (too lazy to find for you), you and "friends" may be of opposing factions (or "hostile" to each other in some way) AND still be in the same party. If you choose to.

I am not sure that you, yourself can be a member of two opposing factions at the same time. I doubt it.

Goblin Squad Member

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...You may be a member of multiple factions if you wish, but you must meet the requirements for each, including not already being a member of an opposing faction.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, back to basic question. Can a bandit move "loot" as if a merchant? Can the fence move as a Merchant? How far removed from the bandit must one be to move loot as merchant?

Goblin Squad Member

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Lam wrote:

Well, back to basic question. Can a bandit move "loot" as if a merchant? Can the fence move as a Merchant? How far removed from the bandit must one be to move loot as merchant?

They can carry their limit or they can have a hauler member (of whichever faction/skill that fits) move the lootz. Just because they may appear as "hostile" to each other does not force them to fight. They can be in the same party or company.

At least that is how I understand it so far.

Goblin Squad Member

Alexander_Damocles wrote:

The more I see factions, the less optimistic for PFO. I was told this would be a game with no factions, and they are now becoming central to both skills and PvP.

I'm rather disappointed.

I don't understand your perspective, Alexander. What is it about factions that bother you, or is the problem only that you expected one thing and they are designing differently from your expectation?

Goblin Squad Member

Jiminy wrote:

I'm not sold on faction based PvP. Is it always on, or only when slotting some skill or flying some flag? If always on, it very well could just turn into red v blue v green. I would prefer a more nuanced interaction where you're not sure who is what or who you can trust with absolute certainty.

It would solve the problems people are raising, but I honestly think it would give a more shallow character/player interaction.

Your vision of faction is that membership is mandatory?

In the design I'm envisioning it doesn't limit your choices, it expands the available choices.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite wrote:
Lam wrote:

Well, back to basic question. Can a bandit move "loot" as if a merchant? Can the fence move as a Merchant? How far removed from the bandit must one be to move loot as merchant?

They can carry their limit or they can have a hauler member (of whichever faction/skill that fits) move the lootz. Just because they may appear as "hostile" to each other does not force them to fight. They can be in the same party or company.

At least that is how I understand it so far.

Something like this. You may not even be forced to see each other as hostile. My guess, like Eve, you will be able to adjust how you see people. You should be able to set your company/settlement/group above enemy faction on your overview. Which means, even if someone is part of an opposing faction, you dont see them as hostile because they are in your settlement.

Goblin Squad Member

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If you're into crafting and logistics, being a merchant will probably be a lot of fun.

If you're more into PvP, banditry also seems like a good option.

But I wonder what's in it for guards? They'll be constantly under pressure to lower their price (merchants are greedy) and they'll either walk alongside a caravan and be bored out of their mind OR be outnumbered by bandits (who always have the initiative).

I seriously doubt it will be a fun job...

Goblin Squad Member

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An uneventful trip will most likely be somewhat boring for both merchant and Guards: it all depends on the stakes, and the odds.

If the stakes are high, the chance also increases that something happens so the fun(anticipation vs reward) factor will increase. If the odds are becoming very favorable for those that are transporting goods, then guards will stop accompanying the merchants due to sheer boredom: and then the stakes will suddenly be higher again for the merchants and bandits attacks will increase.

So it seems that this could balance itself out nicely.

However it *all* depends on the importance of transporting goods: and that depends on a lot of other details, like PoIs, harvesting, traveltimes, how crippling Escalations can become, how Settlements will cooperate, the flow of Gold if there is any and so forth.

GW must create an urgency in the game to transport goods. If that urgency is there, then the merchant/bandit/guard games can begin.

Goblin Squad Member

I would expect that most if not all factions will have merchants and guards, and a few will have bandits, etc. etc.

@ CaptnB

Yes, guard duty is boring if nothing happens. Guards may be expensive to hire as well. I believe most guards will be working for their own settlements, so the pay may be in other forms than just coin. The sense of purpose for providing such a service to your settlement is also a reward unto itself and will alleviate the boredom (possibly).

Goblin Squad Member

CaptnB wrote:
But I wonder what's in it for guards?

1.get hired by a merchant

2.tip off your bandit friends
3.PvP fun!
4a(guards win) get paid, get better salary next time
4b(bandits win) get your finder's fee

Being a guard sounds like pure win to me ;P

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
Jiminy wrote:

I'm not sold on faction based PvP. Is it always on, or only when slotting some skill or flying some flag? If always on, it very well could just turn into red v blue v green. I would prefer a more nuanced interaction where you're not sure who is what or who you can trust with absolute certainty.

It would solve the problems people are raising, but I honestly think it would give a more shallow character/player interaction.

Your vision of faction is that membership is mandatory?

In the design I'm envisioning it doesn't limit your choices, it expands the available choices.

I would need to understand how GW is to implement factions before being able to make a judgment call on this. If it is mandatory to be in 'Faction A' to be able to use SAD, and Faction A and B have a permanent feud/war, then this does restrict who I can interact with (if the faction flag is always on).

Having the skill based on training, means I could play the CG Robin Hood type that steals from other bandits and gives to my colleagues who just happen to be merchants. Profit all round! With factions, this becomes immeasurable harder, as my merchant friends will most likely be hanging out in a settlement with other merchants, who have guards, who can now attack me on a whim.

Even so, if I group with some Faction B people as part of some venture, can other Faction A members attack our party? Can Faction B members attack me? What does that mean for those not of the attacking faction but in my party? Do they sit by and watch their party member slaughtered, or do they themselves get killed by their own faction members?

I guess my main issue is that the faction system seems so artificial - red v blue if you will, rather than an organic, player driven organisation.

How do you see it expanding player/character choices?

Goblin Squad Member

Jiminy wrote:

I would need to understand how GW is to implement factions before being able to make a judgment call on this. If it is mandatory to be in 'Faction A' to be able to use SAD, and Faction A and B have a permanent feud/war, then this does restrict who I can interact with (if the faction flag is always on).

Having the skill based on training, means I could play the CG Robin Hood type that steals from other bandits and gives to my colleagues who just happen to be merchants. Profit all round! With factions, this becomes immeasurable harder, as my merchant friends will most likely be hanging out in a settlement with other merchants, who have guards, who can now attack me on a whim.

Even so, if I group with some Faction B people as part of some venture, can other Faction A members attack our party? Can Faction B members attack me? What does that mean for those not of the attacking faction but in my party? Do they sit by and watch their party member slaughtered, or do they themselves get killed by their own faction members?

I guess my main issue is that the faction system seems so artificial - red v blue if you will, rather than an organic, player driven organisation.

How do you see it expanding player/character choices?

Just because someone is in an enemy faction, does not mean you must fight.

If its faction based, SAD is not needed. You can either role play it or just kill.

Faction A can always attack faction B, and vise versa. You can support party members in any fight. If you are not of an opposed faction, you will not be attacked first without a counter attack or rep hit. Yes, you can get killed by fellow faction members in that type of situation. If you defend a friend, who is of an opposite faction against someone of your own faction... What can you expect? You fought them.

The problem with the player driven organisation... No one wants to agree. This is the better of the choices.

Goblin Squad Member

As for merchants that believe they can opt out of faction, yes they can choose to do so. It is a meaningful choice, as GW add more carrots to join, those opting out will also be opting out of those advantages.

Opting out will still not completely shield the merchant. There will still be SAD (later on) and there is always the option of the bandit to take the rep hit, and attack the unflagged merchant.

Over all I can see the system working in a balanced way.

Goblin Squad Member

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Lam wrote:
Well, back to basic question. Can a bandit move "loot" as if a merchant? Can the fence move as a Merchant? How far removed from the bandit must one be to move loot as merchant?

Getting a wagonload of resources out of the wilderness and back to a civilized area will be a challenge. It would be useful therefore to think about becoming an effective teamster able to drive fast, move quietly, detect threats, and use cover and camouflage to hide.

Or hire someone who is.

My expectation is that the list of abilities Ryan rattled off there will be tied to the Merchant Faction such that you'll have to increase your Merchant Faction to maximize them. If you forego the Merchant Faction membership, you'll still be able to move goods, you just won't be able to do it as efficiently

[Edit] One other bright side to Faction-based Banditry is that it will probably keep the Bandits from picking on those who are trying to "opt out" of PvP - like relatively new players who are just starting to venture out into wilder lands and do a little minor harvesting while they're exploring. And limiting the best Teamster abilities to faction membership means that those foolish enough to try to "opt out" of PvP while transporting valuable cargo will practically be sitting ducks.

Goblin Squad Member

CaptnB wrote:

If you're into crafting and logistics, being a merchant will probably be a lot of fun.

If you're more into PvP, banditry also seems like a good option.

But I wonder what's in it for guards? They'll be constantly under pressure to lower their price (merchants are greedy) and they'll either walk alongside a caravan and be bored out of their mind OR be outnumbered by bandits (who always have the initiative).

I seriously doubt it will be a fun job...

I actually think it's going to be one of the most interesting and fun things to do in-game. I've been very excited about it for a long time now.

I would also point out that the "quiet time" when you're guarding transport and not getting attacked will probably be one of the prime socialization opportunities in-game.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Stephen Cheney wrote:

The idea about creating a merchant and bandit faction set was a winner around here. It should be easy enough to implement that we won't be using any major programming time that could be used to get other features online, which means that we can get it earlier than we'd get the whole S&D system. So it seems likely that what will happen is:

  • We get a bandit and merchant faction working around the same time as the other factions become available. (My gut is that we set up the merchant faction in such as way as it makes sense for both merchants and guards to join, rather than inventing a third faction to guard the merchants.)
  • We may not have all the high-rank perks yet, so we wait until we have enough attractive high-rank merchant perks before ruling on how well it's working out. (That is, we expect merchant adoption to be gradual as more "carrots" come online, so expectations shouldn't be for many merchants to be members as soon as it's available.)
  • We use feedback from how the faction system is working to revise our goals for what the S&D system needs to accomplish, and figure out where that fits into the schedule.

Is the intent to make the higher ranks of Merchant and Bandit factions mutually exclusive with the higher ranks of the other factions?

Goblinworks Game Designer

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Is the intent to make the higher ranks of Merchant and Bandit factions mutually exclusive with the higher ranks of the other factions?

The current plan is that the only thing that prevents you from joining a faction is that it's an enemy of one of your current factions, and the only thing that keeps you from getting as highly ranked as you want in all of your factions is the sources of faction points. That is, there may be two factions that are not enemies but one of the actions that earns faction points for one may lose points for the other, making that action riskier than if you were just in the one faction (that's just speculation about something the system might cause, I don't know if we'll actually set up any choices like that).

Goblin Squad Member

Stephen Cheney wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Is the intent to make the higher ranks of Merchant and Bandit factions mutually exclusive with the higher ranks of the other factions?
The current plan is that the only thing that prevents you from joining a faction is that it's an enemy of one of your current factions, and the only thing that keeps you from getting as highly ranked as you want in all of your factions is the sources of faction points. That is, there may be two factions that are not enemies but one of the actions that earns faction points for one may lose points for the other, making that action riskier than if you were just in the one faction (that's just speculation about something the system might cause, I don't know if we'll actually set up any choices like that).

Stephen,

Are there any similarities between faction design in PFO, and the Faction wheel that Leee Hammock developed for Fallen Earth?

In FE, for those who don't know, each faction had a direct enemy (opposite side of wheel). Each faction also had two associated factions, one on each side of it (left and right). When you earned faction points with your faction, you also earned half that amount with your two side factions. At the same time, you lost double faction standing with your direct opposite, and half that amount with its two side factions.

The one potential drawback was that you could "spin the wheel" and eventually work your way around and reach maximum standing with ever faction, then lose a bit, once you've completed the circle.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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Our design for PFO factions will certainly be informed by the strengths and weaknesses we figured out for FE's factions :) .

The main reason spinning the wheel was so desirable in FE was that once you'd learned something, it was yours forever, so you no longer needed to be a member of the faction. In PFO, faction-trained feats will generally be unslottable if you are not currently a member of that faction, significantly reducing the allure of raising a faction to learn a feat and then abandoning it.

Additionally, our factions will not be set up on a formal wheel structure; there may be situations where actions have a faction effect on multiple factions, but I suspect they won't be a standardized "+X to faction, +Y to allies, -Y to ally enemies, -X to faction enemies," but will instead make sense for the situation.

Goblin Squad Member

I was wondering whether a character could even abandon a faction after he had advanced to rank 4-6. Or if he could only do so by making a very long-term enemy. Losing access to faction-trained feats after abandoning a faction might be penalty enough.

Goblin Squad Member

Good stuff Stephen

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Yes, guard duty is boring if nothing happens. Guards may be expensive to hire as well. I believe most guards will be working for their own settlements, so the pay may be in other forms than just coin. The sense of purpose for providing such a service to your settlement is also a reward unto itself and will alleviate the boredom (possibly).

Guard duty is also boring if something does happen. Bandits will only engage when they know they'll win. So as a guard, the odds will always be against you. I fail to see how losing most fights will attract a lot of people.

Goblin Squad Member

CaptnB wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Yes, guard duty is boring if nothing happens. Guards may be expensive to hire as well. I believe most guards will be working for their own settlements, so the pay may be in other forms than just coin. The sense of purpose for providing such a service to your settlement is also a reward unto itself and will alleviate the boredom (possibly).
Guard duty is also boring if something does happen. Bandits will only engage when they know they'll win. So as a guard, the odds will always be against you. I fail to see how losing most fights will attract a lot of people.

Cmon now, think about it a bit. There are ways of doing it, I wont tell you how.

Goblin Squad Member

Urman wrote:
I was wondering whether a character could even abandon a faction after he had advanced to rank 4-6. Or if he could only do so by making a very long-term enemy. Losing access to faction-trained feats after abandoning a faction might be penalty enough.

Yeah, that should be penalty enough. There is no reason to hold people to their faction no matter what.

But... There should be at least a 24 hour cool down where you are stuck in the faction after clicking the leave faction button.

Goblin Squad Member

CaptnB wrote:
Bandits will only engage when they know they'll win.

Allow me to highlight this quote from Ryan again.

Getting a wagonload of resources out of the wilderness and back to a civilized area will be a challenge. It would be useful therefore to think about becoming an effective teamster able to drive fast, move quietly, detect threats, and use cover and camouflage to hide.

In addition to that last bit about hiding, I wouldn't be surprised if there were other abilities that allowed you to obfuscate your actual strength, either making your party appear stronger or weaker than it really is. I sincerely hope this kind of bluffing and bluff-calling is at play.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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CaptnB wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Yes, guard duty is boring if nothing happens. Guards may be expensive to hire as well. I believe most guards will be working for their own settlements, so the pay may be in other forms than just coin. The sense of purpose for providing such a service to your settlement is also a reward unto itself and will alleviate the boredom (possibly).
Guard duty is also boring if something does happen. Bandits will only engage when they know they'll win. So as a guard, the odds will always be against you. I fail to see how losing most fights will attract a lot of people.
Sun Tzu wrote:


To win one hundred fights in one hundred battles is not the epitome of skill. To overcome the enemy without fighting is the epitome of skill.

The interesting part of doing things perfectly isn't the part where you don't fight.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

My issue is that PFO was designed around meaningful player decisions. That any factions that arose would be a part of an organic growth process done by players. That skills were earned from settlements.

Factions to learn skills means people will be out there grinding faction rep to get skills. Factions are artificial. If these are skills that need to be trained...what makes them so special that you can't place them in a settlement? I see *zero* reason to take some skills out of the hands of settlements and place them in arbitrary factions. If a city wants to be a large merchant hub, they would need to set up the facilities to handle that. Same for bandits. Now, you just need to go make an arbitrary NPC happy enough with you to teach you a skill.

That's a cheap way out, and not in the spirit of what PFO is all about.

Goblin Squad Member

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I figure factions are just part of the theme-park side of PFO; they always told us it was a hybrid. The faction leadership will always be NPCs, and likely "off-board" (outside the Pharasma-affected parts of the River Kingdoms) so players can't go and kill them. It's likely a specialized trainer and excuse forsource of conflict; it will work out.

Edit to add: there's no reason the PFO space needs to operate in a vacuum. I would expect many high mucky-muck NPCs in charge of the various factions to exit the River Kingdoms until they figure out why people are being repeatedly brought back to life. They sit outside the affected area and pull strings inside; that's normal politics.

Goblin Squad Member

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My opinions on Goblinworks including factions in Pathfinder Online (at least factions between bandits vs. merchants) will remain my own until I've learned more. However, I'll admit the first thought that crossed my mind when reading of their inclusion was not a positive one.

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