Turning while Flying


Rules Questions


According to the Fly rules, you can turn 180 degrees with a DC 20 Fly check and an expenditure of 10 feet of movement.

You can also turn 90 degrees with a DC 15 Fly check and an expenditure of 5 feet of movement.

Does anything prevent a flier from making TWO DC 15 Fly checks (spending five feet of movement twice) to make TWO 90 degree turns during their movement?


The rule you quoted above it that tells you what the cost is to make a 180 degree turn and not being a jerkface who is trying to cheat at the game.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You can start your turn facing ANY direction, so it doesn't really come up much to begin with.

But when it does, no, I think it's safe to say you CAN'T do that.


Depends on the situation..

You want to 'move one way, then move the opposite way'?
I'll look to my rule book, and tell you to make a DC20 flight check, because you are making a 180 degree turn.

You want to 'move one way, turn 90 degrees and move in that direction, then turn 90 degrees and move some more'?
Hmm.. my rule book doesn't describe it specifically, but that certainly seem like two seperate fly checks at DC 15 to me.

Grand Lodge

No you can't

Otherwise why stop there You could just do 6 30 degree turns and no check needed.

The 45 / 180 degree are for the complete movement.


Thod wrote:

No you can't

Otherwise why stop there You could just do 6 30 degree turns and no check needed.

The 45 / 180 degree are for the complete movement.

So, a dragon wants to fly 20 feet, turn 90 degrees, fly 50 more feet, and then turn 90 degrees again. Is this two checks, or one?

When are the checks (or when IS the CHECK) made?

What if the dragon wants to turn 90 degrees AGAIN and fly another thirty feet?


Ravingdork wrote:

You can start your turn facing ANY direction, so it doesn't really come up much to begin with.

But when it does, no, I think it's safe to say you CAN'T do that.

Ha -- so you can turn around and do a flyby attack every round without having to ever make fly checks for turning?


Claxon wrote:
The rule you quoted above it that tells you what the cost is to make a 180 degree turn and not being a jerkface who is trying to cheat at the game.

But your honor, the rules CLEARLY STATE that turning 90 degrees costs 5 movement and requires a DC 15 Fly check. Nowhere in the rules does it ACTUALLY STATE that you can't do this more than once in a round. My client isn't trying to "cheat" at all here -- he's playing entirely by the rules!


Werebat wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

You can start your turn facing ANY direction, so it doesn't really come up much to begin with.

But when it does, no, I think it's safe to say you CAN'T do that.

Ha -- so you can turn around and do a flyby attack every round without having to ever make fly checks for turning?

Yes, you can. The fly skill specifically allow this: "Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check."

As far as when the check is made, it doesn't really say. neither does it state what the consequence of failing it is. I would personally say that you make the check, when you perform the turn (and probably rule that your movement ends if you fail it).

Sczarni

Werebat wrote:

According to the Fly rules, you can turn 180 degrees with a DC 20 Fly check and an expenditure of 10 feet of movement.

You can also turn 90 degrees with a DC 15 Fly check and an expenditure of 5 feet of movement.

Does anything prevent a flier from making TWO DC 15 Fly checks (spending five feet of movement twice) to make TWO 90 degree turns during their movement?

It doesn't apply to Flurry unless your GM says so.

If he does, it also depends on the quality of your Flight.
Druids for example, get Perfect Fly from Air Elemental.
No check necessary for anything unless it's something extreme, which they will likely pass anyways.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Werebat wrote:
Thod wrote:

No you can't

Otherwise why stop there You could just do 6 30 degree turns and no check needed.

The 45 / 180 degree are for the complete movement.

So, a dragon wants to fly 20 feet, turn 90 degrees, fly 50 more feet, and then turn 90 degrees again. Is this two checks, or one?

When are the checks (or when IS the CHECK) made?

What if the dragon wants to turn 90 degrees AGAIN and fly another thirty feet?

I would allow that and have the player make two checks.

Kind of like the dragon trying to chase Harry Potter around the towers of Hogwarts.


Ravingdork wrote:
Werebat wrote:
Thod wrote:

No you can't

Otherwise why stop there You could just do 6 30 degree turns and no check needed.

The 45 / 180 degree are for the complete movement.

So, a dragon wants to fly 20 feet, turn 90 degrees, fly 50 more feet, and then turn 90 degrees again. Is this two checks, or one?

When are the checks (or when IS the CHECK) made?

What if the dragon wants to turn 90 degrees AGAIN and fly another thirty feet?

I would allow that and have the player make two checks.

Kind of like the dragon trying to chase Harry Potter around the towers of Hogwarts.

Then why not allow them to make two 90 degree turns to turn around?


Werebat wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Werebat wrote:
Thod wrote:

No you can't

Otherwise why stop there You could just do 6 30 degree turns and no check needed.

The 45 / 180 degree are for the complete movement.

So, a dragon wants to fly 20 feet, turn 90 degrees, fly 50 more feet, and then turn 90 degrees again. Is this two checks, or one?

When are the checks (or when IS the CHECK) made?

What if the dragon wants to turn 90 degrees AGAIN and fly another thirty feet?

I would allow that and have the player make two checks.

Kind of like the dragon trying to chase Harry Potter around the towers of Hogwarts.

Then why not allow them to make two 90 degree turns to turn around?

Because that is a 180 degree turn, not to two 90 degree turns.

Grand Lodge

2OP

What checks do you do for the following?

1) assumes 90 foot movement
2) assumes you can only move on a 5 foot grid

I tried to fly a half circle - of course a grid doesn't allow a perfect circle - so I tried to do one as closely as possible.

Start at (x/y coordinate in feet)
0/0
10/5
20/15
25/25
35/25
45/20
55/10
60/0

Are these
7 partial movements with no single one > 30 degree = no check
2 movements with 90 degree 2 90 degree checks
1 movement with 180 degree 1 180 degree check

Why do you choose the first, second or third?

What decides when 1 partial movement stops and the second starts?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
HaraldKlak wrote:


Because that is a 180 degree turn, not to two 90 degree turns.

Exactly.

Grand Lodge

2OP

One more clarification needed

Do you do

A) a double move with a single 90 degree turn in each of the moves

B) a single move with 2 90 degree turns?

A) should be rules legal, B) not

Off course A) wouldn't allow you any other action like standard action, other movement action like taking out a potion, etc.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Werebat wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The rule you quoted above it that tells you what the cost is to make a 180 degree turn and not being a jerkface who is trying to cheat at the game.
But your honor, the rules CLEARLY STATE that turning 90 degrees costs 5 movement and requires a DC 15 Fly check. Nowhere in the rules does it ACTUALLY STATE that you can't do this more than once in a round. My client isn't trying to "cheat" at all here -- he's playing entirely by the rules!

Here it is:

PDF-Fly skill wrote:


Try Again: Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same maneuver on subsequent rounds.

Try again allow you to repeat the same maneuver in subsequent rounds. Not during the same round.

So the reverse is not allowed, i.e. you can't make the same maneuver multiple times in a round.
And that has some interesting consequence that I had never noticed before.

Edit:
I am not sure it that is the RAI of the rule. I would probably fall back to the old 1ed rules that required you to move for some time in a straight line between turns, with the length of the straight line movement depending on your manoeuvrability class.


Werebat wrote:
Claxon wrote:
The rule you quoted above it that tells you what the cost is to make a 180 degree turn and not being a jerkface who is trying to cheat at the game.
But your honor, the rules CLEARLY STATE that turning 90 degrees costs 5 movement and requires a DC 15 Fly check. Nowhere in the rules does it ACTUALLY STATE that you can't do this more than once in a round. My client isn't trying to "cheat" at all here -- he's playing entirely by the rules!

The intent of the rules is vastly more important than the "rules as written". Why would they put the rules for making an 180 degree turn if you could just turn 90 degrees twice and make a lower check, or instead make six 30 degree turns with no checks at all.

Don't be a cheater. Don't try to play silly mental games like this and convince yourself that you're right because the game doesn't explicitly tell you that you can't do this. It's obvious that it's not intended or else they wouldn't have put in the rules that govern exactly what you're trying to accomplish. In other words...

Motion denied. I find the defendant guilty.


My thought that 2x 90 degree turns is fine but you are forced to move at least 5 feet with each turn so if you were in a 5' hallway, you would be forced to make the 180 turning back on yourself whereas in a 10' corridor you could make 2x 90 degree turns but you would wind up on the other side of the hallway (flying in a U).


My 2cp

The rules state that a that turning 90 degrees is a dc 15 using 5 feet of movement and that this dc and movement penalty increase by 5 for adding another 90 degrees to the turn. So if you are flying through a maize at full speed (or chasing Harry at Hogwarts) I would take the total turns made during the movement and add them up.

Lets say you want to make 270 degrees of turns during your turn but end up facing the same way you started. I would give this a dc25 fly check costing 15 feet of movement. Then if you are trading in your standard action for another move action a seperate dc would be created for the new movement.

I believe this to be RAI.

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