Hard Mode=Hell Yeah!


Pathfinder Society

2/5

Played 5-13 on Wednesday. It has a hard mode. You cagey buggers...you really were listening! What can I say? Thank you. You certainly play your cards close to the chest...

The mod was awesome. It had both of the things I (and I think a lot of people)have been wanting to see more of:

1. A hard mode
2. At least one cool, set-piecey encounter with multiple types of challenges present at once.

Everyone playing seemed to have a great time (and the GM enjoyed being able to challenge people a little more too). Dyed in the wool optimizers will still cakewalk this, but at least now it starts to look a lot more like the players (and not the mod/encounter design) that are at fault when they do this.

This is a mod I could (and probably will) run, and run as written without feeling vaguely (or more than vaguely) frustrated. Great job. Thanks for writing it. Thanks for listening.

5/5 *****

My only real issue with Hard Mode is that it doesn't take the training wheels off as far as tactics go. For example The Waking Rune has a hard mode but the tactics for the end encounter remain pretty terrible (for very good reasons on normal) and if you stick to them it isn't really very difficult.

2/5

andreww wrote:
My only real issue with Hard Mode is that it doesn't take the training wheels off as far as tactics go. For example The Waking Rune has a hard mode but the tactics for the end encounter remain pretty terrible (for very good reasons on normal) and if you stick to them it isn't really very difficult.

One thing at a time. I totally see your point, but as long as there's progress, I'm happy.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

While I haven't played/GM'd 5-13 yet, I'm glad that hard mode is back, and with a makeover for the better it sounds like.

Hopefully this trend can continue. We've heard John say time and time again that it doesn't take that that much development effort to include hard mode in scenarios, so for ones where it makes sense to have it, I hope to see more and more of them.

I look forward to pushing it to the limit with Weapon in the Rift!

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

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I'm open to continuing hard mode, but I try to use it when the feel is right. Tackling major campaign villains, doing over-the-top missions, and other such "wow-factor" adventures work well for hard mode. More routine missions, even if cleverly done, are not good candidates for hard mode.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Just the response I was hoping for. It's gonna be a good weekend!

5/5 *****

Yep, I am looking to try and play 5-13 at U Games Expo. No idea if I will get in or if the group will be up for the more difficult challenge.

2/5

Thanks for the response, John. I for one always find your posts lucid, polite and professional. It's definitely not the answer I was hoping for, but I understand the thinking behind it. I do agree that it is cool dramatically to save hard mode for the big moments.

I guess my thinking about it goes like this:

1. Power creep has been better handled by Pathfinder than it was by 3.5, but it's still become a very significant issue.
2. Although the mods have gotten harder (which is good) they are still constrained by the CR system, which could barely keep up with the options granted by Core and APG, and is really far behind now.
3. The current normal mode is therefore really like easy mode (in other words, challenging only to novices) and the current hard mode is closer to what probably ought to be (it seems to me) the standard challenge rating for most groups. Dramatically appropriate mods would, I guess, in my ideal world, include some kind of "ultra-hard" mode.
4. Given the existence of power creep, isn't it at some point inevitable that a static CR system will be rendered more or less completely non-viable? Personally I'd say we're nearly there already, but it's hard to dispute that we will necessarily get there eventually, no? Wouldn't it make sense to anticipate that event?

I recognize that my personal evaluation of the difficulty of mods (both actual and desired) may be out of step with much of the community. And that's just something I have to deal with, I suppose. But I do think it's a legitimate and relevant critique to say that this system involves a highly fluctuating level of PC capability against a relatively static level of challenges, and there's just no way something that foundational and significant isn't going to cause issues.

But, again, thanks for the response. It's obvious you're thinking about these things and trying to make the experience the best it can be. Thanks for your commitment and professionalism. At the end of the day, that's all we can ask for.

Dark Archive

HARD MODE HURTS SO GOOD. GROND LIKE.

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

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While a character's potential grows as the number of options grow, I find the Challenge Rating system is still a fair albeit somewhat touchy metric of how the mean and mode populations will handle a given encounter. Circumstances often affect how well it measures a challenge, and that's one of many reasons to have a developer (to say nothing of the author's ability to write, play-test, and reason).

Erick, I think you'll find that your characters' power level is on the higher end of the spectrum. I know of plenty of players who can trounce a Pathfinder Society scenario with little trouble, but I know many more who find the present level of challenge just right (to say nothing of those who find Seasons 4–5 a little too hard). If I were to increase the difficulty across the board, I would alienate the beginners that I'd rather recruit.

That's why I enjoy including hard mode options and challenging exclusives like the Bonekeep series several times a season; it gives those who revel in a tough challenge an opportunity to face a tough challenge—all with little to no negative impact on players who feel the baseline difficulty is plenty tough enough.

5/5 5/5 *

<tangent post>
Upon seeing that NPC classes were forbidden in PFS, it made me a little sad. I always wanted there to be a boon called "Hard Mode" that allowed you to create a 1st-level commoner, no multi-classing allowed.

I've seen there's channels for submitting mods(/mod ideas?) but is there a way to submit boon ideas?
</tangent post>

Silver Crusade 5/5

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While I think it is a good idea to have a "hard mode" on some adventures to satisfy those players who have, now what do people call it? a high degree of "system mastery" ? And I'm glad there are such scenarios as Bone Keep parts 1 2 etc, for the tactically minded PFS player, I think it is also important to keep writing scenarios that cater to the role playing PFS player, such as the Disappeared, the Blackross Matrimony, Hell knight feast, and I think I would put Library of the Lion in that category.

Ideally I really like having elements of both tactics and role playing in a scenario. I think Day of the Demon did a good job at that.

I also think it is important to keep in mind that Pathfinder Society is also for many people an introduction to the Pathfinder Role playing game. I guess sometimes I worry about beginning or casual players being left behind as the difficulty of scenarios are increased. I think it is important for someone to be able to pick up the core rule book and make an effective character that they enjoy playing.

Well perhaps the leveling system already takes care of that.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

TFP, can I ask you, why would the (in game world) Pathfinder Society accept commoners as field agents? And do you really think commoners would survive to see level 2 without being GM credit babies?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interested in your thoughts. The Society is constantly sending agents into deadly situations. I don't feel the Decemvirate are quite that sadistic as to send very untrained peasants into a trap filled dungeon.

I could maybe see adepts/experts/warriors passing PFS tests, but commoners, it is very hard to imagine.

For fun, go ahead and run a group of NPC classed characters through the confirmation and see how they do. I'd love to see the after session report. :) (Also note, only PC classed characters get max HP from their first HD...)

3/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
TFP, can I ask you, why would the (in game world) Pathfinder Society accept commoners as field agents? And do you really think commoners would survive to see level 2 without being GM credit babies?

I'd say that an archetypical Expert1 or Aristocrat1 would make a better Pathfinder than a 7-Int Fighter. A Commoner1... ehh, probably not...

Unless the Commoner got to count every two Commoner levels as one level of a PC class, just like how the classes work with regards to CR. A Commoner8 could do pretty well at Tier 4-5. Oh, the plethora of play opportunities!

-Matt would totally slow-track that character, too.

2/5

I just gm'd 5-13, lets just say I think I was more relieved than they were when they finished it. It was a lot of fun.
P.S.1 turn can make a world of difference.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
TFP, can I ask you, why would the (in game world) Pathfinder Society accept commoners as field agents?

Because the society does not know what their class is, only what they have accomplished. While difficult it is possible that the commoner managed to accomplish Pathfinder training.

Silver Crusade 1/5

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Hi, I've only been with the society a short while- I really only learned about it GenCon 2013, and will be DM'ng my first PFS scenario next week (although I've been DM'ng D&D 3.5 for years), but wanted to throw my .02 in on this.

Let me say that a lot of people show up for our PFS games that won't ever see the forums, optimize their characters, and aren't 'tactically' the best players.

A 'Hard Mode' is great for those that want it, but I think for many people, PFS is their first real exposure to RPGs. I know our group has attracted quite a few that are:
1. Completely new to RPGs (actual first time players).
2. Casuals/Role Players (they just want to have fun, and don't try to make their characters uber-elite).
3. Not interested in buying all of the source materials necessary to go crazy optimizing their PCs.

For the above, the CR system is a great fit- and the PFS scenarios we've played together have been challenging enough to nearly kill off a player every other scenario or so.

Again, add 'Hard Mode' (or Nightmare- "replace all enemy human NPCs with Polymorphed Ancient Black Dragons, and all non-human NPCs with Balors"), as long as it's optional- but the core of the scenarios seems challenging enough as it is for new players, and those uninterested in optimization.

2/5

Here's my thought as I am planning to play 5-13 int he near future, and maybe even Waking Rune as well.

It depends on level. If I'm bringing a level 7 or lower into an 8-9 game, there's no way I'm voting for hard mode. It's already hard mode for my character.

Now if the reverse was true, and we were just barely playing down, for example, then the added challenge might be just what the doctor ordered to keep things interesting.

Erick's right - the real experts and optimizers are probably still going to handle hard mode just fine - with a little more suspense, of course. But the scaling just from 5-6 to an 8-9 is huge.

I brought a level 3 character to a 6-7 game (Tier 1-7) and made some poor tactical choices that got me killed. No way that happened at 3-4. So I too like that the option is there, but I can totally see why it's just an option.

i.e. you have a table of 6. Levels are: 9, 9, 7, 7, 7, 6. APL = 7.5, rounds to 8 (with 6 and APL 7 you'd still 'play up'). Paizo has to write the 8-9 encounters with that party in mind. Should they play the 8-9 hard mode? Probably not.

5/5 5/5 *

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:

TFP, can I ask you, why would the (in game world) Pathfinder Society accept commoners as field agents? And do you really think commoners would survive to see level 2 without being GM credit babies?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interested in your thoughts. The Society is constantly sending agents into deadly situations. I don't feel the Decemvirate are quite that sadistic as to send very untrained peasants into a trap filled dungeon.

I could maybe see adepts/experts/warriors passing PFS tests, but commoners, it is very hard to imagine.

For fun, go ahead and run a group of NPC classed characters through the confirmation and see how they do. I'd love to see the after session report. :) (Also note, only PC classed characters get max HP from their first HD...)

Anyone who's played PFS in a public setting with people they don't know can see their party makeup usually means that, in-story, the Decemvirate rarely makes wise decisions as to who they send on their missions.

But really, I just wanted to do it because the biggest minmaxers at my FLGS are giant snobs (the kind of people that refer to other players as "casuals" when not speaking through a keyboard) and I really like trolling them by bringing non-optimized character choices to the table (Dwarven Bard, Elven Barbarian, non-human anything, etc) and still manage to make them effective during the game by playing well.

Lantern Lodge 2/5

Ahh the good times i have with my Elven Barbarian who jumped a 30 foot gap and was able to tie the rope off so everyone else could get to the other side. Or my Elven Life Oracle who doesn't have Selective channeling and causes the bad guys to become squeezed when I heal the falling comrades they just stepped on(actually happened in a lvl 1 mod. channeled for 1 point brought the mook up to 0 and the boss was standing in his square).

2/5

On the general topic of weapon in the rift, I thought the normal mode did a great job of balancing challenge with survivability. When I ran it, I had two characters built for hard mode (more like 1 built and 1 well designed for this particular set of challenges) and 3 characters who weren't. I managed to shoot the line between everyone living and the optimized characters being challenged pretty well. Unfortunately, the less optimized characters were sidelined or minimized in the final 2 encounters so the scenario wasn't as fun as it could have been for them, but that goes back to the varied nature of the party. I could have scaled things down pretty easily if all the characters had been unoptimized. As far as scenario design goes, I had a good amount of wiggle room either way.

I think that the challenge level of this scenario depends a lot on prep time. The GM needs to be able to understand every trick in the bad guy toolbox to make sure the encounters aren't pushovers. I also find it interesting that party composition heavily affects the challenges of the adventure. When I played it, other tables (playing other scenarios) finished their entire run before we were done with the first encounter. We made up the time by having a pretty short second encounter. When I ran it, the group breezed through the first encounter (much to my chagrin) but the second encounter ran them in circles for 15+ rounds. A lot of the difficulty they faced in that one owes to the amount of time I spent researching the opposition and making notes. All of the encounters for this scenario take a lot of prep but are scalable and rewarding. The story is also quite exciting.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

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I played Weapon in the Rift on normal mode, and I thought that it was hard enough thank you very much. Feel free to keep including hard mode as long as I won't be forced to play it. I simply want no part of it.

I really liked the scenario on normal mode and had a blast playing it.

2/5

John Compton wrote:

Erick, I think you'll find that your characters' power level is on the higher end of the spectrum. I know of plenty of players who can trounce a Pathfinder Society scenario with little trouble, but I know many more who find the present level of challenge just right (to say nothing of those who find Seasons 4–5 a little too hard). If I were to increase the difficulty across the board, I would alienate the beginners that I'd rather recruit.

That's why I enjoy including hard mode options and challenging exclusives like the Bonekeep series several times a season...

I suppose this is at the heart of the issue. If most of the players are finding the existing CR system challenging, then that's what you have to look at. It may well be that my own experience is simply not representative of much of the community. In my local group, we have a good number of people capable of some pretty significant shenanigans. My experience is also that if we're talking about serious build-fu, you only need one of those guys at the table to pretty much neutralize a mod. And I have heard similar reports from PFS tables in other cities our players came here from too, so maybe I thought, from my own skewed experience, that this was a bigger issue than it is. Also, I seem to desire a much greater level of challenge/danger than the average player. I want my characters to die a lot more often. I want mods to sometimes end in complete failure and/or TPK.

Incidentally, I do self-police the optimization stuff, especially with my more recent characters. I stopped taking Crane Style, for instance, well before the errata happened, because my first character that had it was too successful. My builds are good, and probably above average, but for the most part I'm far more interested in making weird builds that do interesting things than I am in being especially powerful. Optimizers would find many of my build choices baffling if not outright absurd. In other words, I optimize to achieve weirdness and esoterica, not power. So I'm basically quite intentionally handicapping myself, and still winding up with slightly above-par characters (considering the entire field, anyway), which eventually begins to feel like an odd way to be playing a game, you know?

I've been playing for long enough that it's very difficult to put myself in the mindset of a new player, but I imagine they must experience some confusion at the fact that in some cases players who are, essentially, "successful" at the game (in other words, optimizers) are basically getting chastised by the community for it (not talking about myself here, btw). At the end of the day, making a very good character, in PFS, is a very bad thing to do. And that's odd.

The other thing I've noticed about all this (and I'm not trying to blow up the thread here, I swear to God) is that while all the classes are capable, with the right builds, of breaking the CR threshold, some require very little effort to do this. Wizards are the obvious example. If you max out Int and have a rudimentary understanding of which spells are the good ones, you are probably playing a character that outpaces CR. Not going to dwell on this too much, as it obviously could be a thread of its own.

So, I don't know what the answer to all this is. Is PFS properly just for beginners and/or non-crunch oriented players? I sometimes play pool one-handed against less experienced players, but I'm not sure I'd want to play that way all the time. Also, it sometimes annoys people.

I suppose you're being pragmatic, and I get that. But it would bother me, if I were a developer, to know that one guy could show up at a table and basically nullify the challenge for everyone. It would bother me, even if it wasn't happening, to know that it could happen, and I think I'd want to address it in some way. But then maybe that's why I'm not a developer ;). And I do recognize what an immensely challenging thing that is to address, and maybe the trouble is that attempting to do so would invariably upset the experience for too many others. I don't know.

But again, thanks so much for the responses. And yeah, Bonekeep was a lot of fun :)

3/5

Erick Wilson wrote:
So, I don't know what the answer to all this is.

I think we all know of one solution that will do the job, though it would come with more disagreement and whining than these boards have ever seen before.

And since that's not going to happen, we're looking at a campaign reboot.

-Matt

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Erick Wilson wrote:
But it would bother me, if I were a developer, to know that one guy could show up at a table and basically nullify the challenge for everyone.

Hell, I've SEEN that happen.

Erick Wilson wrote:
And yeah, Bonekeep was a lot of fun :)

Word. If it weren't for our teamwork I doubt my party would have survived.

2/5

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:

<tangent post>

Upon seeing that NPC classes were forbidden in PFS, it made me a little sad. I always wanted there to be a boon called "Hard Mode" that allowed you to create a 1st-level commoner, no multi-classing allowed.

I've seen there's channels for submitting mods(/mod ideas?) but is there a way to submit boon ideas?
</tangent post>

I know what you mean. It's basically the same idea as the "Deprived" starting class in Dark Souls. It could be cool. On the other hand, as a commoner you wouldn't really be able to do anything either, so it might be a bit boring anyway. If you want this kind of experience you can already just play, like, a Sorcerer 1/Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Cavalier 1/Bard 1/etc. Or just take all Fighter levels but only take weird random feats that do cool things but don't work well together. Come to think of it, this is basically just a step further than what I do already...

3/5

I can also say with certainty that these sorts of characters can do just fine in PFS. My aristocrat, a character which was born from a thread about de-optimizing away from combat, has done wonderfully.

That being said, one of PFS's problems is that it's super-tough to get your tables on-board with not pushing their characters hard enough so that everyone gets to have a good time. It only takes one player to wreck things.

-Matt

2/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:
But it would bother me, if I were a developer, to know that one guy could show up at a table and basically nullify the challenge for everyone.

Hell, I've SEEN that happen.

Same.

5/5

I agree with John that for special events hard mode is a great extra flair to put on select adventures.

I am running hard mode waking rune this weekend and looking forward to it. The group who signed up has been preping to work as a team we have had alot of build up.

When I ran weapons a couple of weeks ago the party did not want hard mode and that was good. They were 2 rounds away from total failure and likly would not have survived the additional chalanges.

As lomg as players understand what they can do I like how hard mode offers additional risks and opertunities for teamwork and creative problem solving rather then seeing superheros just power attacking and oneshoting everything.

It would be nice if in the future hard mode also allowed for changes in enemy alignment. More chaotic neutral big bads!

5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
GM Derek W wrote:
i.e. you have a table of 6. Levels are: 9, 9, 7, 7, 7, 6. APL = 7.5, rounds to 8 (with 6 and APL 7 you'd still 'play up'). Paizo has to write the 8-9 encounters with that party in mind. Should they play the 8-9 hard mode? Probably not.

I like your point here, so just FYI for PFS Development staff to keep in mind, this party must play 8-9 in a 5-9 tier scenario (with 4-player adjustment):

5,5,7,7,8.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Michael Eshleman wrote:

I played Weapon in the Rift on normal mode, and I thought that it was hard enough thank you very much. Feel free to keep including hard mode as long as I won't be forced to play it. I simply want no part of it.

I really liked the scenario on normal mode and had a blast playing it.

It really was a lot of fun Michael, great group, great gm. I am kind of indifferent to hard mode. I enjoy some brutal challenges, and I know others that really love to play them. I don't think there should be extra rewards for doing hard mode except maybe a title or something that says as such. It would also be nice if John/Mike had a way of telling if a group did something on hard mode or not, this might already be the case, but I don't think it is to see how many groups are actually doing hard mode. I don't think hard mode should ever be required and I am glad that John has stated as such.

GM Derek- While I agree that 7.5 should round to 8, there were some extremely heated arguments that ultimately led Mike Brock to rule that .5 can round up or down and that it is up to the table which way they want to go. So a table of 7.5 could play up on 4 person, or up on 6 person depending on how you round. IE if you round down to 7 you would play high tier on 4 person difficulty, if you round up to 8 it would be up on 6 person.

1/5

I like hard mode but I think there should be an incentive, however small, for players who play it.
It doesn't seem right for me to put the life of my character on a very thin line if there isn't anything to be earned from it.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Faskill wrote:
I like hard mode but I think there should be an incentive, however small, for players who play it.

Get the GM to write 'Completed on Hard Mode!' on the chronicle, then flaunt it!

Quote:
It doesn't seem right for me to put the life of my character on a very thin line if there isn't anything to be earned from it.

Hard mode was introduced in response to players who weren't happy with the challenge of normal scenarios. Experiencing hard mode (and surviving) is the reward.

5/5

Paz wrote:
Faskill wrote:


It doesn't seem right for me to put the life of my character on a very thin line if there isn't anything to be earned from it.
Hard mode was introduced in response to players who weren't happy with the challenge of normal scenarios. Experiencing hard mode (and surviving) is the reward.

This. Back before season 4, people were clamoring for more challenge, more challenge, and stating no additional reward was necessary, just more challenge. That is what they are trying to accommodate...

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paz wrote:
Faskill wrote:
I like hard mode but I think there should be an incentive, however small, for players who play it.

Get the GM to write 'Completed on Hard Mode!' on the chronicle, then flaunt it!

Quote:
It doesn't seem right for me to put the life of my character on a very thin line if there isn't anything to be earned from it.
Hard mode was introduced in response to players who weren't happy with the challenge of normal scenarios. Experiencing hard mode (and surviving) is the reward.

I have gold star stickers for just such a momentous occasion. If that isn't reason enough to play hard mode, I don't know what is.

2/5

Agreed. Extra rewards would negate the point of hard mode. The only thing in terms of reward I wouldn't mind seeing would be a bragging rights boon indicating that you completed the encounter.

When I first started with society, the idea of hard mode repulsed me. I viewed the push for more challenges as other people trying to push the difficulty up on my game when I was already at a comfortable level. This feeling was underlined when my character hit level 7 and started playing 7-11 tiers. Those are about all the challenge that my character can take right now, though they're getting a bit easier as I expect and prepare for heavier challenges.

But as I gain more experience and my system mastery and player ability develops, I begin to see the point. 1-5 tiers are becoming very easy (though not boring - a lot of them have interestig flavor). On the GM side, I'm becoming more and more willing to push the players to the edge. I can understand how an experienced player who'd been around for a long time would be longing for more challenges. I think the hard mode option is a great idea and a step in the right direction towards satisfying those players. At the same time, I'm very happy to see that John keeps the newer players in mind, because honestly the current level of diffiulty is often challenging enough.

I think a lot of it may have to do with character builds, too. New players need time and experience with a few builds before they begin to understand the Pathfinder system and learn how to make characters that can survive. My very first PFS character - and the one I play the most - was a ninja. Not exactly the first class I'd give to a new player when walking into a 7-11.

Not counting GM credit, I've built and played 7 characters since I started playing Pathfinder. I'm finally just now getting to the point where I can deliberately build a character designed to survive heavy challenges. I intend to deliberately put him into the scenarios that are known to be hard and to run newer scenarios on hard mode whenever possible. It should be an interesting experience, and I'm looking forward to it. One thing I've immediately noticed is how my change in expectations for the character is changing my attitude. With the majority of my characters so far, a stream of near TPK's would not be fun. With this guy, I'll be deliberately seeking the challenge out and things will be different. That shift in attitude is something that I'll have to keep in mind when GMing in the future. Not only do different people get their fun in different ways, but even the same person can get fun in different ways depending on their expectations for the character.

3/5

If I get to DM a hardmode encounter I will write HARD MODE on their chronicle.

I do not think there should be any mechanical benefit, but I would like to see it noted on the chronicle.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

John once I get to do hard mode of this one if you want me to run your through this hard mode, maybe this time without the damn gunslinger and broken spell like Waking Rune, I will be happy too.

2/5

I agree that hard mode should be its own reward.

P.S. Played 5-15 last night. Another fun mod with some interesting challenges, despite the lack of hard mode. You guys are really mixing it up now, and it's much appreciated.

The Exchange 4/5

I think hard mode is awesome. I think some amount of diamonds given to some sort of thing might have been a bit much for the first instance. Though it was completely reasonable at 10-11.

For weapon in the rift, I thought it was near perfect (though I have to say, I think the 2x [Redacted] were actually a more dangerous fight than the 1x leveled [redacted] at the low tier.

Action economy and all that.

However, I really enjoyed this hard mode, if felt like the right amount of challenge to me.

5/5

Erick Wilson wrote:
You guys are really mixing it up now, and it's much appreciated.

If you do some searching of these forums from a few years ago, people were complaining that PFS scenarios varied in difficulty too much.

2/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:
You guys are really mixing it up now, and it's much appreciated.
If you do some searching of these forums from a few years ago, people were complaining that PFS scenarios varied in difficulty too much.

People are going to complain. It's what they do. They'll complain about anything. But, what makes the most sense? What's the most interesting? What do the devs want the game to be? Okay, so make it that. Do those things.

I don't come on here just to air my preferences about what the game should be. Who cares what my preferences are? I'm not the king of the internet. I come on here to make arguments about why the game should be a certain way, or just to introduce different facets to the discussion that I think aren't being considered enough.

Honestly, when I post threads like this one, it's not really because I think my opinion matters. It's mostly so that I don't come off as a curmudgeonly troll who just complains all the time, and why is he going to PFS anyway since he never has any fun there? Because I DO have fun there, and the devs do a lot of great work, and I think it's important to say so sometimes to balance out all my talk about what I think could or should be different.

I mean, I hope the devs aren't reading what I write and going "oh, here's a player who wants things. We should take into account that this guy wants these things, because we have to try to give the players what they want." Screw me and what I want, unless what I want makes sense and is cool. I'm trying to persuade the devs that this is the case. If they don't agree, I'm s*#* out of luck. And that's as it should be.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I got to run 5-13 this past week with a varied party that ended up playing up with the 4-player adjustment. If they had played hard mode it would have been a TPK. As it was they came in just by the skin of their teeth. I'd love to get a solid party of 9th level characters to challenge hard mode and see what happens.


I played this yesterday with 4 others, and we had a relatively well balanced party.

We did not play hard mode, but if we did we would have TPK'd. We barely finished as it was. One of us died (not myself) and three others went negative (myself included).

Can't remember the last time where multiple people went down but yet sucessfully completed the mission. It felt like something out of a movie.

Quite awesome. :)

Dark Archive

GROND WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY EARLIER STATEMENT.

MISTER JOHN OF COMPTON HURT GROND A LOT IN BONY KEEP. IT WAS GLORIOUS.

GROND WOULD LIKE MORE PLEASE. OOH.

-G

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